GGTharos Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I don't think this has anything to do with predicted exchange rates for fighters ;) You could say they may be found to be wrong, but it has absolutely nothing to do with revision of counts post-BDA assessments as opposed to relying on pilot description. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Can't really take the DoD figures for face value considering the long long list of revisions that have taken place in its history in terms of real life engagements. I was reading the other the other day about the original stellar reports of destroying scud launchers in the desert in the Gulf War. Some time after a report was commissioned and the figure dropped from ~100 to close to Zero and pointed to the abyssmal performace of the SAR on the 'E'. So, grains of salt to be passed out, form an orderly queue. We also bombed the same sites numerous times, so I'm sure that is not just counting the SCUD sites. There were a lot of things that happened during the war that wasn't great. F-15E pilots also said at the end of the war they saw Iraqi helicopters were killing innocent people. They couldn't do anything about it but watch. But, they did make one copter crash by scaring the crap out of the pilot. i7-4820k @ 3.7, Windows 7 64-bit, 16GB 1866mhz EVGA GTX 970 2GB, 256GB SSD, 500GB WD, TM Warthog, TM Cougar MFD's, Saitek Combat Pedals, TrackIR 5, G15 keyboard, 55" 4K LED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPTIDE Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 We also bombed the same sites numerous times, so I'm sure that is not just counting the SCUD sites. There were a lot of things that happened during the war that wasn't great. F-15E pilots also said at the end of the war they saw Iraqi helicopters were killing innocent people. They couldn't do anything about it but watch. But, they did make one copter crash by scaring the crap out of the pilot. I remember a term like... rubble bouncing or something? Anyway The SCUD 'sites' weren't sites as such. The ones that were used against Israel for example were dispersed in the Western and Southern Deserts near the border with Jordan. They were mobile. 30mins to launch from a stop. US and British SoF were inserted on the ground. Communication problems plagued them at first, but once that was sorted an average of 50min from a call to strike to actual aircraft on station didn't help matters. As for the end of the war, yes. There was a Shia uprising in the South. They were encouraged by various agencies in the West to revolt and when Kuwait was secure they were then left high and dry. Well played. :thumbup: :music_whistling: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostie Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 So we're agreed then, if I was piloting the Su30 and GG's sitting in the super bug, he'd be wise stay on ground. Took a while to get around to it but we finally made it. Emperor Groove, you can shut her down now my friend. :P "[51☭] FROSTIE" #55 51st PVO "BISONS" Fastest MiG pilot in the world - TCR'10 https://100kiap.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 If you were piloting an Indian Su-30 you probably shouldn't be terribly happy to have to face superbugs. They're fairly scary. Especially with that allergy to hornet stings ... ;) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 I remember a term like... rubble bouncing or something? Anyway The SCUD 'sites' weren't sites as such. The ones that were used against Israel for example were dispersed in the Western and Southern Deserts near the border with Jordan. They were mobile. 30mins to launch from a stop. US and British SoF were inserted on the ground. Communication problems plagued them at first, but once that was sorted an average of 50min from a call to strike to actual aircraft on station didn't help matters. As for the end of the war, yes. There was a Shia uprising in the South. They were encouraged by various agencies in the West to revolt and when Kuwait was secure they were then left high and dry. Well played. :thumbup: :music_whistling: There was a treaty that NATO would only allow them to fly helicopters and they would leave them alone. Well, NATO didn't think they would fly attack copters and kill innocent people fleeing the country. i7-4820k @ 3.7, Windows 7 64-bit, 16GB 1866mhz EVGA GTX 970 2GB, 256GB SSD, 500GB WD, TM Warthog, TM Cougar MFD's, Saitek Combat Pedals, TrackIR 5, G15 keyboard, 55" 4K LED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPTIDE Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 There was a treaty that NATO would only allow them to fly helicopters and they would leave them alone. Well, NATO didn't think they would fly attack copters and kill innocent people fleeing the country. I know. Pretty crappy situation. :( [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikoyan Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 If it was one on one; hornet vs su-30 then it would be up to the pilot; but we know that is very unrealistic; since there is no way that a hornet would go into a fight without support from other airplanes. Have you guys seen the super hornet demos? it is insane! the only way a su-30 could outmaneuver a superhornet would be with tvc and power (hard to know for sure without performance numbers) anyway the superhornet is a fantastic airplane; it would not be nice to have to face it even if you are on a mki. Another issue the lack of info on the performance numbers on the su-30 mki's radar and ecm suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectre Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 If it was one on one; hornet vs su-30 then it would be up to the pilot; but we know that is very unrealistic; since there is no way that a hornet would go into a fight without support from other airplanes. Have you guys seen the super hornet demos? it is insane! the only way a su-30 could outmaneuver a superhornet would be with tvc and power (hard to know for sure without performance numbers) anyway the superhornet is a fantastic airplane; it would not be nice to have to face it even if you are on a mki. Another issue the lack of info on the performance numbers on the su-30 mki's radar and ecm suit. The Super Hornet with its reduced RCS, advanced IDECM, AN/APG-79 which is the second best is the world only after F-22' radar , leaps and bounds more capable than anything Russia can come up with, will always detect the Flanker first. The Russian hardware has always been lagging behind Western equivalents ( The crashing Israeli victories of the past with MIRAGE III,F-4,F-15 and F-16 speaks volumes ) and after the meltdown of the Soviet defence industry the gap today is even bigger! believe me mate Dr .Carlo Kopp is not the best source of information on this. Supersonic maneuverability of the Flanker is useless if you don't know you're being detected,located and shot at. Even if few Flankers get close, they have JHMCS and AIM-9X's to deal with. The ejector seat is the most efficient weapon of the Flanker against the SH 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nscode Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 If Su-30 is packing BARS, you can simply forget about first look. Never forget that World War III was not Cold for most of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exec Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 If Su-30 is packing BARS, you can simply forget about first look. I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4c Hajduk Veljko Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 The Russian hardware has always been lagging behind Western equivalents ( The crashing Israeli victories of the past with MIRAGE III,F-4,F-15 and F-16 speaks volumes ) and after the meltdown of the Soviet defence industry the gap today is even bigger!In my opinion, Russian scientific work and core research is not that far behind. Implementation and production of the latest technologies lags indeed. The reason is, that Russia does not need to spend trillions of dollars on something that it does not need. Also, Russian military hardware customers do not have money to pay for latest and grates. Israeli, (nor USA, nor Saudi nor Japan) F-15 never engaged anything in its class and it does not speak volumes about technology. Thermaltake Kandalf LCS | Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R | Etasis ET750 (850W Max) | i7-920 OC to 4.0 GHz | Gigabyte HD5850 | OCZ Gold 6GB DDR3 2000 | 2 X 30GB OCZ Vertex SSD in RAID 0 | ASUS VW266H 25.5" | LG Blue Ray 10X burner | TIR 5 | Saitek X-52 Pro | Logitech G930 | Saitek Pro flight rudder pedals | Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 It's not the F-15's fault that it never went against a different aircraft. The same thing would happen though. It's not only because of the jet, but all the other resources that comes with it.....to include pilot training, maintenance, etc... i7-4820k @ 3.7, Windows 7 64-bit, 16GB 1866mhz EVGA GTX 970 2GB, 256GB SSD, 500GB WD, TM Warthog, TM Cougar MFD's, Saitek Combat Pedals, TrackIR 5, G15 keyboard, 55" 4K LED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nscode Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 It's not about the jet. It's about rust. Everything it went against had it. Never forget that World War III was not Cold for most of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfa Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 The Super Hornet with its reduced RCS, advanced IDECM, AN/APG-79 which is the second best is the world only after F-22' radar , leaps and bounds more capable than anything Russia can come up with, will always detect the Flanker first. The Russian hardware has always been lagging behind Western equivalents ( The crashing Israeli victories of the past with MIRAGE III,F-4,F-15 and F-16 speaks volumes ) and after the meltdown of the Soviet defence industry the gap today is even bigger! believe me mate Dr .Carlo Kopp is not the best source of information on this. Supersonic maneuverability of the Flanker is useless if you don't know you're being detected,located and shot at. Even if few Flankers get close, they have JHMCS and AIM-9X's to deal with. The ejector seat is the most efficient weapon of the Flanker against the SH Mindless trash-talk without substance. 2 JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectre Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Mindless trash-talk without substance. LOL..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostie Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Yep, those Israeli F-15's demolished them cutting edge MiG-21's.:doh: "[51☭] FROSTIE" #55 51st PVO "BISONS" Fastest MiG pilot in the world - TCR'10 https://100kiap.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Well, they do have the dubious honor of being the F-15's only gun kill ... [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4c Hajduk Veljko Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Well, they do have the dubious honor of being the F-15's only gun kill ...Honor or embarrassment that missiles could not hit. Reminder: SAM = Stealth STOP! Thermaltake Kandalf LCS | Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R | Etasis ET750 (850W Max) | i7-920 OC to 4.0 GHz | Gigabyte HD5850 | OCZ Gold 6GB DDR3 2000 | 2 X 30GB OCZ Vertex SSD in RAID 0 | ASUS VW266H 25.5" | LG Blue Ray 10X burner | TIR 5 | Saitek X-52 Pro | Logitech G930 | Saitek Pro flight rudder pedals | Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilotasso Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Dont know how a victory can be an embarrassment, specially when those migs never got even a shot off. [sigpic]http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic4448_29.gif[/sigpic] My PC specs below:Case: Corsair 400C PSU: SEASONIC SS-760XP2 760W Platinum CPU: AMD RYZEN 3900X (12C/24T) RAM: 32 GB 4266Mhz (two 2x8 kits) of trident Z RGB @3600Mhz CL 14 CR=1T MOBO: ASUS CROSSHAIR HERO VI AM4 GFX: GTX 1080Ti MSI Gaming X Cooler: NXZT Kraken X62 280mm AIO Storage: Samsung 960 EVO 1TB M.2+6GB WD 6Gb red HOTAS: Thrustmaster Warthog + CH pro pedals Monitor: Gigabyte AORUS AD27QD Freesync HDR400 1440P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoGas Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Honor or embarrassment that missiles could not hit. Reminder: SAM = Stealth STOP! No, the missiles scored already....:thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilotasso Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 hes referring to the first few engagements of the F-15's using AIM-7F's which indeed missed. Those Eagles were among first batches ever made and bugs have since been corrected as later engagements testified. [sigpic]http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic4448_29.gif[/sigpic] My PC specs below:Case: Corsair 400C PSU: SEASONIC SS-760XP2 760W Platinum CPU: AMD RYZEN 3900X (12C/24T) RAM: 32 GB 4266Mhz (two 2x8 kits) of trident Z RGB @3600Mhz CL 14 CR=1T MOBO: ASUS CROSSHAIR HERO VI AM4 GFX: GTX 1080Ti MSI Gaming X Cooler: NXZT Kraken X62 280mm AIO Storage: Samsung 960 EVO 1TB M.2+6GB WD 6Gb red HOTAS: Thrustmaster Warthog + CH pro pedals Monitor: Gigabyte AORUS AD27QD Freesync HDR400 1440P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPTIDE Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 hes referring to the first few engagements of the F-15's using AIM-7F's which indeed missed. Those Eagles were among first batches ever made and bugs have since been corrected as later engagements testified. Must have been server lag. Always screws around with my 7's. ;) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 They printscreened ;) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectre Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 In my opinion, Russian scientific work and core research is not that far behind. Implementation and production of the latest technologies lags indeed. The reason is, that Russia does not need to spend trillions of dollars on something that it does not need. Also, Russian military hardware customers do not have money to pay for latest and grates. Israeli, (nor USA, nor Saudi nor Japan) F-15 never engaged anything in its class and it does not speak volumes about technology. F-15's are 103-0 in air to air combat. F=15's have shot down: F-4E's - two Mig 21 - Thirty eight Mig 23 - twenty five Mig 25 - four Mig 29 - nine SU-7 - one SU-22 - four SU-25 - two Mirage F1 - eight coincidence?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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