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DCS A-10C QUESTIONS


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Going back to the gun for the A-10....Is there anyway to go into the LUA and correct the settings for the over done dispersion settings on the GAU-8? The pattern is much much larger in the sim than it would be in reality...multiples larger. Could it be easily corrected?

 

I agree. The spread pattern should be barely larger than a vehicle. A 50 round burst should have no trouble destroying a T-55. And yes, I am using PAC as well. I've called in a few hogs in Iraq and I have to say, the spread on the target was minimal. Hopefully this can be fixed, I was wondering the same thing...

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Going back to the gun for the A-10....Is there anyway to go into the LUA and correct the settings for the over done dispersion settings on the GAU-8? The pattern is much much larger in the sim than it would be in reality...multiples larger. Could it be easily corrected?

 

Distance / Dive angle to target matters. A LOT. I notice many virtual pilots attempting waaaay too shallow attack strafes.

-Seil

WotG Founder & A10C Lead

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You're describing bullet density, not dispersion. Dispersion is a function of the gun design and is not affected by dive angle or slant range.

 

The GAU-8 puts 80 percent of rounds fired from a cold barrel within a 5 mil diameter (2.5 mil radius) of the pipper. Considering that the CCIP Gun Cross has a 2 mil pipper, 80 percent of rounds should fall within an area 3 pippers wide, and 3 pippers high. This is not happening in DCS.

 

Here's a video of a Long Range Strafe (LRS) with an 8K Open, and 7k Cease. It demonstrates the wild dispersion that is occurring in DCS. Note that the BATA is indicating exactly where the bullets should be landing, but the actual hits are all over the place.

 

Most interesting ...

I wonder, why I haven't seen anyone else mentioning this already - after all the time we are flying the Hog now. Was there a change in the past?

 

Going back to the gun for the A-10....Is there anyway to go into the LUA and correct the settings for the over done dispersion settings on the GAU-8? The pattern is much much larger in the sim than it would be in reality...multiples larger. Could it be easily corrected?

After some experiments, this seems to be responsible:

 

...DCS WorldConfigWeaponsshell_table.lua

shell("GAU8_30_HE", _("GAU8_30_HE"), {
 model_name    = "tracer_bullet_A-10",
 v0    = 950.0,
 Dv0   = 0.0060,
[color=Red][b]  Da0     = 0.0017,[/b][/color]
 Da1     = 0.0,
 mass      = 0.360,
 round_mass = 0.700,
 cartridge_mass = 0.083,
 ...

(also check out the AP and TP variants!)

 

For comparisation: the Ka-50 gun - known to be very accurate - has Da0 = 0.0005. Something like Da0 = 0.0010 for the GAU8 seems to be about right when compared to the BATA.

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I heard a rumor ED set the 5 mil numbers that Noodle mentioned as a radius and not a diameter.

Sounds somewhat plausible to me when I look at the numbers in that .lua file ... at least with my layman mathematics and spiced with a bit conspiracy theory :o)

 

If we assume a linear dispersion model and 80% hits within 5 mils, the total dispersion would be 6.25 mils. Now with your theory, ED would have assumed 2*6.25 = 12.5 mils. This comes pretty close to the value of Da0 = 0.0017 ... somehow.

Now, linear dispesion is unlikely. More likely would be some kind of bell curve, right? The impacts near the center would be more likely than at the outer rim... here my maths already comes to an dead end, but I would assume that the total diameter of the imact area would be slightly bigger than 6.25 (or 12.5) - perhaps more in the range of, hrm, 8 mils (16-17 mils)? :o)

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You're describing bullet density, not dispersion. Dispersion is a function of the gun design and is not affected by dive angle or slant range.

 

The GAU-8 puts 80 percent of rounds fired from a cold barrel within a 5 mil diameter (2.5 mil radius) of the pipper. Considering that the CCIP Gun Cross has a 2 mil pipper, 80 percent of rounds should fall within an area 3 pippers wide, and 3 pippers high. This is not happening in DCS.

 

Here's a video of a Long Range Strafe (LRS) with an 8K Open, and 7k Cease. It demonstrates the wild dispersion that is occurring in DCS. Note that the BATA is indicating exactly where the bullets should be landing, but the actual hits are all over the place.

 

I'm not arguing the stats of the weapon system. What I am saying is that mils, moa, radians, whatever you want to measure with is still an angle and is affected by distance.

 

If you're engaging within the proper attack envelope, then you'll see the appropriate effects. If you're too far away for example, or on too shallow of a dive angle, the dispersion of the rounds will not match the optimal figures.

 

My point is simply that the gun will not perform optimally if the pilots are outside of optimal envelopes. I'm not saying that someone is or is not engaging correctly, but no one seems to mention these factors and I see many people overlook or completely ignore them.

 

My comment was simply a reminder that the gun will not perform the same in all situations.

-Seil

WotG Founder & A10C Lead

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I'm currently playing the built in campaign and i appear to be stuck on mission 7 "7-1-0".

 

The goal is to help Redskin and Packer to advance to some points.

I however have no idea how to aquire all the targets properly. All 4 JTACs appear to give me targets way out of the battlefield and i tried manually aquiring the targets through the TGP, managed to find some, got shot down after an hour.

 

Am i playing this mission the right way? Any help would be appreaciated.

 

What this bloke said I'm confused as well on this mission????????????

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What this bloke said I'm confused as well on this mission????????????

 

Sounds like the 37T / 38T problem.

 

 

Basically when you're inputting your coordinates from the JTAC, make sure that you check and see which setting you have inputted. If the coordinates you're getting result in a waypoint over a hundred miles away (or more) then it's probably the fact that you're in a section of Georgia that sits over a different grid.

 

You may need to read about it- it's not my strength but I'm quite certain that's your issue.

"ENO"

Type in anger and you will make the greatest post you will ever regret.

 

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Again, you're describing bullet density. Bullet density will increase as slant range decreases and/or dive angle increases...just like you said. It's also affected by the bullet dispersion of the gun system. That's why High Angle Strafe is so effective, because it increases bullet density.

 

Dispersion, on the other hand, is the solid angle within which the bullets will hit. In the case of the GAU-8, the dispersion requirement is 80 percent of rounds within a 5 mil diameter. Dispersion does not change - it wont be 10 mils just because I'm at a greater slant range, it's still 5 mils.

 

As a result, from the perspective of the shooter (through the HUD), regardless of slant range 80 percent of rounds sh.ould fall within 3 pipper widths and 3 pipper heights. Sure, at longer slant range, that angle subtends a greater distance over the ground, but thats not the issue.

 

Look at the video again. Those rounds are not falling within 2.5 mils of the pipper.

 

Edit to add: Dispersion increases considerably as the barrel heats up, but to keep things simple, I'm talking about a cold barrel.

Do you have a freely available document or link at hand where those 80%/5mil are defined? So that we could post a proper bug report that even ED can't ignore? :o)

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Sounds like the 37T / 38T problem.

 

[...]

 

You may need to read about it- it's not my strength but I'm quite certain that's your issue.

 

Yup, sounds like it.

 

The Military grid reference system is based on the Universal Transverse Mercator coordinate system.

 

If you look closely at 37T/38T on this map, you'll get an idea of where the border between these two grids runs and that you'll easily start on one side while JTAC and targets sit on the other side.

 

In this regard, DCS doesn't work all that well. It'd be nice if DCS JTACs included the grid in their coordinates. But as Eno said, if you entered JTAC coords correctly and then the target is dozens or hundreds of miles off, you probably need to adjust the grid. :thumbup:

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New Hotas Warthog and Throttles.

 

Hi All

 

Noob alert :music_whistling:

 

I was completely new to flight sims until about a fortnight ago and I have just found out what I have been missing. I started off with Basic DCS to find out what it was all about. I have the game installed (=A-10A and A-10C) on my 2tb spinning drive and the o/s etc on a 250 gb SSD. I was using a Black Widow Thrustmaster joystick but that still left too many keyboard commands so I have gone the full hog and bought the A10 Thrustmaster and Throttles.

 

Now 2 questions: Be gentle with me I'm a silver haired, (ex-computer network engineer) surfer so I know my way around computers, not necessarily flight sims though.

 

There has been an update to the game since I downloaded the original so I have got all the new files, I have read up about deactivation so I will do that before I install the new files onto my SSD.

 

I will install everything from scratch no saved profiles etc and I was wondering when its all done and I go to install the flightstick and throttles do I

 

a) Install the driver software for the Thrustmaster and download the firmware update if required or

 

b) Plug and pray as I've seen mentioned in other posts and hope the game loads the default hotas controls.

 

Secondly I have been looking in the control settings mentioned by others for the Thrustmaster default lua but don't see it. This is still in the old version as I haven't installed the new game files on my SSD as of yet and I wondered if there is still a default mapping out of the box.

 

Hope you can help. Many thanks for taking the time to look at this.

Windows 7 64 Home Premium, i5 3570K (3.4 @ 4.4GHz), Asus P8Z77-V LX, 16GB dual channel 1600 ram, EVGA Nvidia GTX980ti, 240 GB OCZ SSD, 3 TB Raptor, Thrustmaster Warthog Hotas and Throttle, Saitek Pro Combat Rudder pedals.

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Sorry if this has been answered, but out of curiosity, why does the A10 use speedbrakes during approach and landing. I'm used to flying civilian aircraft, and just wondering what the benefit is. Are you not just burning more gas?

 

I've landed on speed, without speed brakes. Just wondering.

 

Thanks!

Win 10, AMD FX9590/water cooled, 32GB RAM, 250GB SSD system, 1TB SSD (DCS installed), 2TB HD, Warthog HOTAS, MFG rudders, Track IR 5, LG Ultrawide, Logitech Speakers w/sub, Fans, Case, cell phone, wallet, keys.....printer

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I'm used to flying civilian aircraft, and just wondering what the benefit is.

 

To keep input lag on the engines low when a go around is needed. Spool up time from flight idle is much longer compared to the power rating you set with the barn doors partially extended.

Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two.

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Sorry if this has been answered, but out of curiosity, why does the A10 use speedbrakes during approach and landing. I'm used to flying civilian aircraft, and just wondering what the benefit is. Are you not just burning more gas?

 

I've landed on speed, without speed brakes. Just wondering.

 

Thanks!

 

It allows you to use a higher power setting, which means less time for the engines to spool upto max power, which in turn gives faster acceleration/climb out in the case of a missed approach/go around.

 

Spoiler

Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Xtreme, Intel 9900K (5Ghz), 64Gb 3600Mhz, MSi RTX 3090, Schiit Modi/Magi DAC/AMP, ASUS PG43UQ, Hotas Warthog, RealSimulator FSSB3, 2x TM MFDs + DCS MFDs, MFG Crosswinds, Elgato Steamdeck XL

 

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Also I'm not sure if this has been brought up before, but when you start a mission with a wingman on the runway. When you start rolling down the runway, number 2 starts rolling almost immediately. Is this correct? That doesn't leave much room for error especially if you have to abort the takeoff. I've observed real A10 flights with elements taking off and they seem to stagger their rolls down the runway. Like when lead rotates, #2 starts rolling, then when he/she rotates then #3 starts rolling, etc.

Win 10, AMD FX9590/water cooled, 32GB RAM, 250GB SSD system, 1TB SSD (DCS installed), 2TB HD, Warthog HOTAS, MFG rudders, Track IR 5, LG Ultrawide, Logitech Speakers w/sub, Fans, Case, cell phone, wallet, keys.....printer

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Is this correct?

 

No. The AI behaviour in DCS isn't exactly the best as far as real world tactics, techniques, and procedures go. For the A-10C with any free fall live ordnance a 20 second delayed takeoff is the standard procedure.

 

Other aircraft types vary from 5 to 30 second delays between each aircraft. Although as Paul say formation takeoffs do happen, but they are quite rare.

 

Spoiler

Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Xtreme, Intel 9900K (5Ghz), 64Gb 3600Mhz, MSi RTX 3090, Schiit Modi/Magi DAC/AMP, ASUS PG43UQ, Hotas Warthog, RealSimulator FSSB3, 2x TM MFDs + DCS MFDs, MFG Crosswinds, Elgato Steamdeck XL

 

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Also I'm not sure if this has been brought up before, but when you start a mission with a wingman on the runway. When you start rolling down the runway, number 2 starts rolling almost immediately. Is this correct? That doesn't leave much room for error especially if you have to abort the takeoff. I've observed real A10 flights with elements taking off and they seem to stagger their rolls down the runway. Like when lead rotates, #2 starts rolling, then when he/she rotates then #3 starts rolling, etc.

 

It all depends on the situation. With training munitions real world A-10s do formation takeoffs from time to time. Like Eddie said, with live ordinance an interval takeoff is required..

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It all depends on the situation. With training munitions real world A-10s do formation takeoffs from time to time. Like Eddie said, with live ordinance an interval takeoff is required..

 

Hello Paulrkiii.

Do the A-10 land in formation as well sometimes? Never seen it as far I can remember.

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Snooze-81st-vFS

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There has been an update to the game since I downloaded the original so I have got all the new files, I have read up about deactivation so I will do that before I install the new files onto my SSD.

 

No need to deactivate if you're simply updating DCS!

 

An activation will only be necessary if you change major hardware components or get an entirely new computer. Hardware items are given a score. If the total score exceeds a certain limit, a new activation will be required, but I don't remember these values right now. The point is, if you plan to upgrade your hardware, you can calculate in advance whether or not a new activation will be required. If it will be, that's when you should make use of a deactivation.

 

But again, if you're simply updating DCS (or even installing it from scratch on the same computer), no activation should be neeed.

 

I will install everything from scratch no saved profiles etc [...]

 

Profiles are stored in your "My Games" folder. The specific path is usually:

 

C:\Users\{Your Username}\Saved Games\DCS\

 

If you wipe the DCS installation directory (but you don't uninstall DCS), this path isn't touched and your input profiles etc. will remain in place.

 

[...] and I was wondering when its all done and I go to install the flightstick and throttles do I

 

a) Install the driver software for the Thrustmaster and download the firmware update if required or

 

b) Plug and pray as I've seen mentioned in other posts and hope the game loads the default hotas controls.

 

I don't see any downside to the Plug'n Pray approach. If Windows and DCS detect the Warthog, you're good to go. If they don't, you can always install the drivers later on.

 

Personally, I like to keep device Firmware up-to-date, but you should check your current version and see the change notes. If it fixes problems that you don't have, why go through the procedure anyways?

 

Secondly I have been looking in the control settings mentioned by others for the Thrustmaster default lua but don't see it. This is still in the old version as I haven't installed the new game files on my SSD as of yet and I wondered if there is still a default mapping out of the box.

 

Should be the case, yes. The TM Warthog has always been Plug'n Play with A-10C. I'm not sure where that default config should be located, but if it's there, it's gotta be either in the installation directory or in the Saved Games directory.

It's also possible that it'll be created on the fly when DCS detects a Warthog, but I'm not sure about this.

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Hello Paulrkiii.

Do the A-10 land in formation as well sometimes? Never seen it as far I can remember.

 

Obviously I'm not Paul, but the answer is yes. http://youtu.be/xPgqPRDZ_dU

 

From my understanding straight in approach is the most common landing, with ILS/night landing second, and overhead break third. Formation landing is a requirement on occasion.


Edited by Hobo
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Interesting! Too bad the AI logic doesn't support such a thing.

Win 10, AMD FX9590/water cooled, 32GB RAM, 250GB SSD system, 1TB SSD (DCS installed), 2TB HD, Warthog HOTAS, MFG rudders, Track IR 5, LG Ultrawide, Logitech Speakers w/sub, Fans, Case, cell phone, wallet, keys.....printer

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I'm not a subject matter expert by any means, but the simple answer would be yes.

 

As you've probably noticed on landing the AOA indicator changes with optimum speed based on gross weight of the aircraft. So it would not be optimal to formation land if your wingman has quite more ordinance/gross weight than you do. This is where a good flight/element lead comes in to play.

 

I could go on and on, but generally during training the same amount of fuel should be used across the entire flight, with the exception of a few hundred pounds for rejoin, and the same amount of ordinance should be dropped. Therefore, everyone should be close to the same gross weight on landing.


Edited by Hobo
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No need to deactivate if you're simply updating DCS!

 

An activation will only be necessary if you change major hardware components or get an entirely new computer. Hardware items are given a score. If the total score exceeds a certain limit, a new activation will be required, but I don't remember these values right now. The point is, if you plan to upgrade your hardware, you can calculate in advance whether or not a new activation will be required. If it will be, that's when you should make use of a deactivation.

 

But again, if you're simply updating DCS (or even installing it from scratch on the same computer), no activation should be neeed.

 

 

 

Profiles are stored in your "My Games" folder. The specific path is usually:

 

C:\Users\{Your Username}\Saved Games\DCS\

 

If you wipe the DCS installation directory (but you don't uninstall DCS), this path isn't touched and your input profiles etc. will remain in place.

 

 

 

I don't see any downside to the Plug'n Pray approach. If Windows and DCS detect the Warthog, you're good to go. If they don't, you can always install the drivers later on.

 

Personally, I like to keep device Firmware up-to-date, but you should check your current version and see the change notes. If it fixes problems that you don't have, why go through the procedure anyways?

 

 

 

Should be the case, yes. The TM Warthog has always been Plug'n Play with A-10C. I'm not sure where that default config should be located, but if it's there, it's gotta be either in the installation directory or in the Saved Games directory.

It's also possible that it'll be created on the fly when DCS detects a Warthog, but I'm not sure about this.

 

Thank you Yurgon. Your input is greatly appreciated. Pointed me in the right direction and I won't be shy in using the forums now. I have spent days going through the forums and have been totally amazed at the knowledge and help available. People seem really nice here, not like some other forums where learners are talked down to. :thumbup:

Windows 7 64 Home Premium, i5 3570K (3.4 @ 4.4GHz), Asus P8Z77-V LX, 16GB dual channel 1600 ram, EVGA Nvidia GTX980ti, 240 GB OCZ SSD, 3 TB Raptor, Thrustmaster Warthog Hotas and Throttle, Saitek Pro Combat Rudder pedals.

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