DCS A-10C QUESTIONS

[Yurgon]

Did you guys check the manual, page 532 to 544?

 

Sure, there's tons of info on that topic. I just seem to remember that there used to be a specific training mission, which served as a very easy introduction. Or is that just my imagination and there never was such a mission?

 

when equipped with 4 (!) aim-9s, i can only lock on and fire two of them. if the first two are gone, the remaining two missiles' seeker seem to be deavtivated.

 

That's weird; last time I tried that, I think I had no problems firing all 4 of them. AFAIK there should be no problems.

 

Anyway, after firing the first two missiles, did you take the system out of the A2A mode and then switch that mode back on? Maybe cycling the master mode might help.

 

Can you set up a very simple mission to illustrate the problem, and then save the track of your flight and upload it here so that we can virtually "look over your shoulder"?

[mvsgas]

Sure, there's tons of info on that topic. I just seem to remember that there used to be a specific training mission, which served as a very easy introduction. Or is that just my imagination and there never was such a mission?

Honestly, I do not remember. Last time I did the training missions on the A-10C was 6 years ago, IIRC.

[Gliptal]

Do the missiles come off the same rack or is it one per pylon?

[twistking]

Anyway, after firing the first two missiles, did you take the system out of the A2A mode and then switch that mode back on? Maybe cycling the master mode might help.

 

Can you set up a very simple mission to illustrate the problem, and then save the track of your flight and upload it here so that we can virtually "look over your shoulder"?

 

I'm pretty sure, i was cycling everything. But i'll test again. Btw. the manual talks about HOTAS controls when aim-9 are SOI. I do not fully understand the concept of aim-9s being SOI. I guess it simply means, HUD in AirToAir-Mode being SOI?

 

Btw. it was a flight directly from editor in cold weather with a cold start. I'll also check with a warm start in mild weather conditions, just to make sure, systems are all working as intended.

If it still doesn't work, i'll upload a track file.

 

Do the missiles come off the same rack or is it one per pylon?

 

It was one missile per Pylon. Strage isn't it? The remaining number of missiles (one per pylon) was also correctly listed in the weapon control screen.

[Gliptal]

Then AFAIK it's a recent bug that was fixed in the openalpha but not in openbeta or release.

[Yurgon]

I do not fully understand the concept of aim-9s being SOI. I guess it simply means, HUD in AirToAir-Mode being SOI?

 

TBH my experience with AIM-9s is fairly limited. But as long as they follow the concept of SOI and SPI that's used throughout all other sensors, it means that where ever the Sidewinders look, that's the aircraft Sensor Point of Interest, and it should be possible to slew all other sensors to it with the "Slave all to SPI" HOTAS command.

 

But this is a bit advanced; even after flying the A-10C for years I'm still discovering new aspects about SOIs and SPIs. Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea for you to keep Air-to-air-employment for a later date and try to get a more basic understanding of the HOTAS and SOI fundamentals first. :smartass:

 

Btw. it was a flight directly from editor in cold weather with a cold start. I'll also check with a warm start in mild weather conditions, just to make sure, systems are all working as intended.

If it still doesn't work, i'll upload a track file.

 

Solid copy on the track file. ;)

 

Just to be sure, "cold start" and "warm start" have nothing to do with weather conditions. :smartass:

 

"Cold start" simply refers to starting the jet from the ramp, with engines and everything turned off, while a warm start means that the engines are already running and all systems switched on and functional. You probably knew that, I just wanted to clarify.

 

 

Then AFAIK it's a recent bug that was fixed in the openalpha but not in openbeta or release.

 

Quite possible! I just didn't follow the bug reports closely.

[Pocket Sized]

You're not setting the AIM-9 as SOI you're setting the HUD as SOI.

 

This gives you control over seeker cage/uncage + manual slew. If you do it right you can acually shoot targets a few dozen degrees above boresight :P

[twistking]

Then AFAIK it's a recent bug that was fixed in the openalpha but not in openbeta or release.

 

ok. thanks for the info.

 

Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea for you to keep Air-to-air-employment for a later date and try to get a more basic understanding of the HOTAS and SOI fundamentals first. :smartass:

Yes, i'll do that. Just wanted to make sure, i know how to use the aim-9s on a very basic level, because they seem to be part of nearly every standard/prebuilt loadout.

 

Just to be sure, "cold start" and "warm start" have nothing to do with weather conditions. :smartass:

[...] You probably knew that, I just wanted to clarify.

Yes, it was just on the same testflight, that at some point, some isntruments (IAS indicator f.e.) stopped working. Probably because i forgot to enable the heating for those. I guess, the aim-9 should like the cold weather, but i was still unsure, if the combiantion of very cold temperatures and me starting all the system by hand could have led to some system not working correctly...

(i could still manage to land though. so everythign went allright more or less)

 

 

***

well, thanks a lot for the answers! i will still double check the aim-9s on my next flight, but for now i just assume it is the bug mentioned by Gliptal.:pilotfly:

 

*edit*

You're not setting the AIM-9 as SOI you're setting the HUD as SOI.[...]

ah. i see. thanks!

Edited November 28, 2016 by twistking

[Yurgon]

You're not setting the AIM-9 as SOI you're setting the HUD as SOI.

 

Are you sure about that? IMO the manual is very clear that in this case the AIM-9 is the SOI; it includes a category for AIM-9 as SOI in all the HOTAS tables and also reads:

 

Possible SOI may include:

[...]

- AIM-9 Air-to-Air Missile

[...]

 

I guess you might mistake the missile's reticule representation on the HUD as meaning the HUD is then SOI, but I believe the actual SOI is really the missile.

 

Yes, i'll do that. Just wanted to make sure, i know how to use the aim-9s on a very basic level, because they seem to be part of nearly every standard/prebuilt loadout.

 

In DCS, yes.

 

But it really depends on the scenario. In Afghanistan, where A-10As and A-10Cs have seen action since 2002, they hardly ever equip AIM-9s because there simply is no airborne threat,

plus the coalition totally owns the sky, so even if there was such a threat, chances of it successfully engaging A-10s are next to none.

 

In DCS, many of our missions show different scenarios where self-defense capabilities play a much more important role.

 

Anyway, the answer really is "it depends". ;)

 

Yes, it was just on the same testflight, that at some point, some isntruments (IAS indicator f.e.) stopped working. Probably because i forgot to enable the heating for those.

 

Yup, that would be a typical problem. :)

 

(i could still manage to land though. so everythign went allright more or less)

 

Yeah, even without proper airspeed indication the A-10C is still pretty easy to fly and land. :thumbup:

[Gliptal]

Pocket Sized is correct, although you'll have to take my word for it.

[VFA-122]

Hey everyone I have made this video for people who are past the key mapping and start up stage and want to get into combat. This will teach people how to deploy (Gbu-12,10,38, AGM-65D and force correlating AGM-65H, guns Rkt's and Mk-82 airs in CCIP and also some nav tips as well. Please give it a look if you desire to use the A-10 effectively in combat.

 

Vid link https://youtu.be/w9hLr-LkeQg

 

Also if further guidance is wanted you can find me at http://www.16agr.com/forums/ucp.php?mode=register'

[Pocket Sized]

I say the HUD is SOI in that scenario because you're controlling symbology on the HUD alone.

 

Personally I think of SOI as either HUD or one of the MFD's. You just so happen to be controlling what that display is showing.

 

In other words, there are only 3 options for SOI at any given instant. That's all there is to it.

[Yurgon]

Pocket Sized is correct, although you'll have to take my word for it.

 

I say the HUD is SOI in that scenario because you're controlling symbology on the HUD alone.

 

Personally I think of SOI as either HUD or one of the MFD's. You just so happen to be controlling what that display is showing.

 

In other words, there are only 3 options for SOI at any given instant. That's all there is to it.

 

I've double checked the manual and I'm starting to become confused on what seemed to be crystal clear. :cry:

 

The chapter on SOI and SPI starts with this paragraph:

 

Sensor of Interest (SOI)

 

Given that the A-10C has three separate displays that can be controlled (two MFCD and the HUD), you must have a way to determine which control display you are commanding. This is done by determining the Sensor of Interest (SOI). Only one control display can be the SOI at a given time and at least one control will always be assigned as the SOI.

 

In this paragraph, the Sensor of Interest seems to be defined as the currently active control display (HUD or either of the MFCDs). Other chapters in the manual talk about sensors themselves (TGP, TAD, MAV) being SOI.

 

This seems pretty fuzzy.

 

I guess it's a matter of preference how one thinks of this concept.

 

Anyway, after a bit of testing it seems the AIM-9 can't be set as SPI, in which case it doesn't really matter whether one says "AIM-9 is SOI" or "HUD is SOI", as it's apparently more or less just different wording for the same concept.

 

And coming back to the original question, in 1.5 I set up a sample mission with 2*2*AIM-9 and had the same problem: One missile per side came off good, then I couldn't get the remaining AIM-9s to work.

 

(To my surprise, I was able to splash the remaining 3 Su-25A I'd set up as toothless targets with the gun; man this thing packs a punch! :D)

[Pocket Sized]

I think I could have explained it better...

 

If your left MFCD has your targeting pod displayed and is SOI, both your left MFCD and your targeting pod are SOI. Which one you use to express that is up to you.

 

I tried to simplify things by saying "there's only 3 possible SOI's" but I messed up and made things more confusing :doh:

[Gliptal]

These are the defined Sensor(s) of Interest:

 

- TAD

- TGP

- HUD A-G

- HUD A-A

- MAV

 

Here's hoping I don't get Swatted.

[Nu-NRG]

These are the defined Sensor(s) of Interest:

 

- TAD

- TGP

- HUD A-G

- HUD A-A

- MAV

 

Here's hoping I don't get Swatted.

There is no Air to Air HUD SPI

 

SOI aka Sensor Object of Interest

 

• HUD
  
• Left MFCD
  
• Right MFCD
  

SPI aka Sensor Point of Interest

 

• HUD (TDC primarily)
  
• STPT (currently selected one)
  
• TAD (hooked symbol)
  
• TGP (pointing at)
  
• AGM (pointing at)
  

Note two underlined key words.

Imagine the first one as object to manipulate/work with (zoom, polarity, exp, slew, etc ..) and the second as wanting to do something to that point (share, observe, destroy)..

 

Layman terms .. and hopefully avoids confusion.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Nu-NRG

[JDarksword]

In regards to the AIM-9 bug, using missile step with HUD selected as SOI and A2A selected as the master mode before firing your first AIM-9 will force the missile that normally is bugged to be selected and cause it to work as normal. I believe missile step is China Hat fore or aft short.

[twistking]

heyhey, thanks again for all the answers. :thumbup:

 

i've got another quick questions concerning the flightplan/waypoints:

When placing waypoints in editor, i place - for example - one waypoint near known enemy location, name it - for example - "attack" and set altitude to "0", so that it is not up in the air.

of course that works from a gameplay point of view, but i was wondering, if this is also somewhat realistic, because the attack-wypoint feels a bit out of place between all the waypoints, that make up the flightroute. the a-10c has no path-follow autopilot, so there is no danger of the autopilot targeting the attack waypoint and flying into the ground, but i'm still interested, if a normal waypoint is the way to go for designating target locations. both in the simualtion and in reality... (i could imagine in reality one would set up multiple flight plans, one with the flight route and other flightplans containing different known position or similar?)

 

Also, if i make a mission, where a JDAM is to be dropped on a known location (a supply depot f.e.), how could i set that up in the flightplan? i can only think of putting waypoints right over the locations and namig them accordingly. should work, but again i'm not sure, if this would be a realistic way to go.)

how would you set up such or similar scenarios?

thanks!

[Gliptal]

There is no Air to Air HUD SPI

 

SOI aka Sensor Object of Interest

 

• HUD
  
• Left MFCD
  
• Right MFCD
  

SPI aka Sensor Point of Interest

 

• HUD (TDC primarily)
  
• STPT (currently selected one)
  
• TAD (hooked symbol)
  
• TGP (pointing at)
  
• AGM (pointing at)
  

Note two underlined key words.

Imagine the first one as object to manipulate/work with (zoom, polarity, exp, slew, etc ..) and the second as wanting to do something to that point (share, observe, destroy)..

 

Layman terms .. and hopefully avoids confusion.

SOI stands for Sensor Of Interest, there's no Object there. :D Besides, that's what I wrote, HUD A-G and HUD A-A are seen as two different SOIs, which accounts for the AIM-9 in the second case.

 

It also seems like you are confusing SPI (the 3D point your SOI is looking at) and SOI, the source of the SPI. That's why the MFCDs aren't SOIs, they're not producing the SPI directly but are rather showing the sensor (e.g. the TGP) that is producing it; the HUD on the other hand "directly" produces the SPI. A source of confusion is the HUD indication in the lower left being not the SPI but rather its source, although it's usually referred I believe somewhat incorrectly as "setting your SPI to".

 

If you ever have the opportunity of taking a look at the real -1 for the C you'll find confirmation.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Gliptal

[Gliptal]

@twistking: I think we're delving more in IRL versus simulation here, so someone like Snoopy or Eddie would be better indicated to answer. Here's what I know:

of course that works from a gameplay point of view, but i was wondering, if this is also somewhat realistic, because the attack-wypoint feels a bit out of place between all the waypoints, that make up the flightroute. the a-10c has no path-follow autopilot, so there is no danger of the autopilot targeting the attack waypoint and flying into the ground, but i'm still interested, if a normal waypoint is the way to go for designating target locations.

Unless the mission is flown against pre-planned immobile targets (and that would be a strike mission, something other platforms do better), the flight plan is more of a rough indication rather than a structured set of WPs. In CAS situations and even more killboxes A-10s would just enter the general area and then switch to some remarkably complicated attack run patterns, foregoing any need for multiple WPs. Visual acquisition is also more common than TGP usage, since there are no limits tied to monitor resolution, FOV, situational awareness, and so on.

 

I expect real flight plans that don't involve some fancy NOE stuff to be takeoff airport, navigation to target area, target area, navigation out of target area, landing airport. I'd be surprised to even see approach waypoints, since IRL ATC is much more prevalent.

 

(i could imagine in reality one would set up multiple flight plans, one with the flight route and other flightplans containing different known position or similar?)

I believe IRL the current suite has more complex and versatile functions to save waypoints, flight plans, markpoints and so on.

 

Also, if i make a mission, where a JDAM is to be dropped on a known location (a supply depot f.e.), how could i set that up in the flightplan? i can only think of putting waypoints right over the locations and namig them accordingly. should work, but again i'm not sure, if this would be a realistic way to go.)

how would you set up such or similar scenarios?thanks!

That's the way to do in the sim. Another solution could be to place a WP in the target's general area, and use the TGP to find it and aim the JDAM; or get the coordinates from elsewhere (JTAC, FRAGO) and directly drop a bomb on them, skipping the mission editor part.

 

Since JDAMs are really different in reality to what we have in DCS, real procedures are quite different. If I had to take a guess they'll probably load the coordinates in some special WPs in the cartridge, and then have those WPs transferred to the bombs' guidance system at some point during the flight.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Gliptal

[Nu-NRG]

I stand corrected on SOI acronym.

 

Snip wall of text

 

Isn't that way I said?

[Gliptal]

Isn't that way I said?

Maybe? You say SOIs are the HUD and the two MFCDs, and SPIs are TGP, MAV and so on. Actually SOIs are those I listed, and SPI is always a 3D point in space.

 

For example, the TAD hook symbol is neither the SPI (not unless you count inference) nor a SOI. The TAD is SOI in that case, and the 3D point the hook references is the SPI.

[Pocket Sized]

I hate to continue the SOI/SPI talk but...

 

I like to think of them as two totally separate things.

 

Sensor of interest is the display/sensor your HOTAS controls are currently assigned to.

 

Sensor POINT of interest is an imaginary point in space that all of the airplanes sensors can interpret. A temporary waypoint, if you will. "You set the SPI with your SOI" is kinda confusing IMO because it makes something obvious seem not so obvious. If you set a SPI that means you're already controlling something capable of setting SPI, therefore you don't have to worry about it.

 

Or something.

 

You wouldn't say "grab that hammer and hit the nail... with the tool you're currently holding in your hand" because it's a bit superfluous and implies that maybe you aren't specifically referring to the hammer...

[Gliptal]

That's correct. The current SOI is generating the SPI at all times. This is cause of confusion for those that approach the concept, since it's common to believe a SPI is a fixed point in space and time (e.g. "setting the SPI" with the TGP and expecting to return to it after a slew).

[Eddie]

The current SOI is generating the SPI at all times.

 

Not quite. The selected "SPI Generator" is generating the SPI, you can switch SOI without changing the SPI generator. Otherwise spot on.