Guest ruggbutt Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 Ruggbutt, would your friend be able to comment on anything at all? Perhaps, specifically, on how chaff affects radar in general ... my main concern is to find out wether the chaff can force a missile's seeker to reduce gain tot he point where a real aircraft is ignored, even if the chaff is rejected by doppler effect. I don't care which missile, it's just a general question :) I'm gonna start writing this stuff down and next time I see him I'll ask. I made him a DVD of 16 LOMAC vids, he sounded interested in the sim. That might be a good "excuse" to ask him a few questions. He said that the AMRAAM stuff is highly classified so he couldn't comment much about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tflash Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 In any case, back to the problem at hand, I'm still willing to bet that everyone here agrees that ARH missiles (AIM-120, MICA. R-77) are undermodelled in some way or another, except for the one or two posters in this thread who only posted to look for a fight. I think it's safe to say that the basic fact is that active radar missiles aren't what they should be. Oops, I didn't post just for an argument, and agree AIM-120 is rather undermodelled, I meant that the effect of chaff was overmodelled in my opinion. But one thing is sure: it's just an opinion, I'd like to know more about this interesting issue! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Scythe Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 Tflash, relax, I wasn't talking about you. You didn't waltz in here and declare that an Eagle will get spanked by either a Flanker or a Fulcrum ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 I think the Eagle has proven that it can spank MiG-29's all day long ;) Comparatively speaking, it has a radar which is (for our intents and purposes) similar to the F-16's, and F-16 guys REALLY hate BVR against the Eagle - and they KNOW exactly how to evade 120's, too. According to this, the 29 would have a pretty tough time against the 15 in BVR. Anyway, moving on ... thanks Ruggbutt. I don't need any classified 120 specific info, a general question as to what chaff does to radar and/or possibly missile seekers would be nice, and probably would help the sim somewhat as well. If your friend were willing to generalize effects of things on missiles, it would be nice. I have found from unclassified sources that things such as seeker settling time, gimbal limits an dother things can conspire all together with countermeasures to prevent a missile from hitting its target. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThirdELTPoznan Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 Why? because it can do the cobra? Because of the R-77? The F-15 can take 8 AMRAAM's, and engage 4 targets simultaneously. And its not the range for sure... MiG-29 Cobra? :o It is not full cobra maneuver like Su-27, and that is why it is not called cobra maneuver. GROM- Grupa Reagowania Operacyjno Manewrowego Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet_169th Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 About the TWS for F15. Not sure if it gives lock warning when target is bugged, but I know if I fire 2 AIM-120, at 2 different bandits, once I fire on the second bandit, both missles go for the second bandit. I will test more tonight after work. Also, last night I was flying some MP. I got killed multiple times by 120's, without a launch warning. I knew I was locked, but never knew the missle was coming. I didnt have ECM on either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Scythe Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 About the TWS for F15. Not sure if it gives lock warning when target is bugged, but I know if I fire 2 AIM-120, at 2 different bandits, once I fire on the second bandit, both missles go for the second bandit. Ripple an AIM-120 every 3-4 seconds. Don't shoot both off right away as fast as you can. This minimizes the problem, although it can still happen. Also, last night I was flying some MP. I got killed multiple times by 120's, without a launch warning. I knew I was locked, but never knew the missle was coming. I didnt have ECM on either. Maddog maybe? Comparatively speaking, it has a radar which is (for our intents and purposes) similar to the F-16's, and F-16 guys REALLY hate BVR against the Eagle - and they KNOW exactly how to evade 120's, too. According to this, the 29 would have a pretty tough time against the 15 in BVR. Not really. Air-to-air, the F-15C's APG-63/70 is superior to all versions of the APG-68 with comparable tech, mainly because it is optimized for air-to-air. All the limited processing power, memory, software and stuff can all go into detecting the target more quickly at longer range, whereas the APG-68 makes some compromises to make room for HRM mapping, etc. Besides, even the detection range for the newest versions of the APG-68 isn't that great - maybe 30-40 miles against fighters - mainly because before the AMRAAM, the only A/A weapon the F-16C had was the AIM-9M. The radar wasn't designed from the outset as an optimised BVR system, like the APG-63/70 is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 D-Scythe, read what I wrote again and tell me in what way I was disagreeing with you :P [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Scythe Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 Sorry, haha. I just meant that they weren't similar in the respect for what they were designed to do. Parts and stuff, you are absolutely right. I like to think of it as me *elaborating* on what you just said ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 Interesting Post I'll take a chance and say that Jaws will come back in here a month or two from now having to admit the F15 is every bit as dangerous as it was in 1.02 :horseback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet_169th Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 a month or two....... that would be about right for a patch =D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
169th_Jaws Posted May 2, 2005 Author Share Posted May 2, 2005 Interesting Post I'll take a chance and say that Jaws will come back in here a month or two from now having to admit the F15 is every bit as dangerous as it was in 1.02 :horseback Hope so mate, coz at the moment I feel like a noob again and that's a rotten feeling when I've been playing LOMAC competitively for so long. Just when you thought it was safe to go back over the water... Flight Lieutenant "Jaws" 169th Panthers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Fly on DC's wing for a while, he'll bring you up to speed before you can say "music on" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kula66 Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Hope so mate, coz at the moment I feel like a noob again and that's a rotten feeling when I've been playing LOMAC competitively for so long. Well, on-line I still get a good number of kills ... an F-15 from the 169 and I got 9 and 7 kills respiectively on-line the other night ... the opposition just gave up!! BUT this is because you don't tend to engage multi-shot simultaneously (TWS bug) and opposition dont use chaff and jamming optimally (like the AI does ... yet). James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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