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Why don't you guys just release DCS: Flaming Cliffs?


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Why are you guys still bound by Ubisoft? Why not just add in 6 new low AFM airplanes to a "DCS:Expansion pack" And forget the bloat that was Lomac? Like I don't even have my original Lomac CD

 

Well, I do have Flaming Cliffs on this site so maybe that'll work but still, I have DCS KA-50 why not just release it as an expansion pack to that?

 

Seriously, there is a box of Lomac sitting on my self with nothing in it. 7 years is a long time to keep an aging game.

 

And here's a shoutout to all the old timers, at least you guys are still around!


Edited by EtherealN
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ubisoft allowed ed 2 upgrades to lomac, which includes fc. fc 2.0 is just an update with only terrain and a 6dof'ish pits and a few fixes thrown in. i doubt bs and fc compatibility will ever see daylight.


Edited by hitman
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i doubt bs and fc compatibility will ever see daylight.

 

I'm afraid you're quite misinformed. DCS:BS and FC compatibility is perhaps the biggest new feature of FC2.0:

 

Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 2.0 will feature the same world environment and game functionality as the Digital Combat Simulation (DCS) series and will be online compatible with the Ka-50 attack helicopter simulation DCS: Black Shark http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com. Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 2.0 will allow Lock On pilots and Black Shark pilots to now fly online together in both cooperative and head-to-head online play.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=47144

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Wait then why don't they just port over all the aircraft and call it DCS: Fighter Edition.

 

I mean the code is in ED's hands or is this some kind of intellectual property dispute? I don't see anything good will come out of marketing an expansion for a game that nobody can realistically buy anymore.

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I mean the code is in ED's hands or is this some kind of intellectual property dispute

 

That would be my guess. Something like ED's agreement with Ubi means that they aren't allowed to release any of the content made for LO as a stand-alone product, as this content still belongs to Ubi.

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Why not create new standalones then of the original LOMAC planes as DCS components with the regular FM and then patch them up to AFM later?

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Why not create new standalones then of the original LOMAC planes as DCS components with the regular FM and then patch them up to AFM later?

 

Time and money? Creating all new models, FM's, and cockpits for 7 planes is a huge effort. Probably not something that could be cranked out in 9 months, like FC2.0 was.

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Common sense? Tell me Steve, since you're so new and updated on things. What common sense is there in releasing an add on pack for a 7 year old game that cannot be bought in stores or anywhere for that matter? So much common sense that the only customer base that will ever know what Flaming Cliffs even means is the current Flaming Cliffs customer base? With the tiny feature list of tweaks and patch updates, not even the Digital Combat Simulator customer base, who may have never played lomac would know what flaming cliffs is about.

 

In fact how are you going to market what essentially is a large patch as a 29.99 product? In a sense, I feel like ED is trying to squeeze as much money as they can out of this community but I love them too much for keeping flight sim gaming alive to really get angry at that fact.

 

Time and money? Creating all new models, FM's, and cockpits for 7 planes is a huge effort. Probably not something that could be cranked out in 9 months, like FC2.0 was.

 

I think what T-Bone means is why not cut up Flaming Cliffs or Lomac for that matter into bite sized chunks. Release them separately as DCS games, update plane models one at a time (how hard it is to create a singular Flanker model) and release it as DCS modules.

 

For instance, lets look at this:

Every 6 months, they'll take a plane from Flaming cliffs. Lets say Flanker, update the model, weapons, radar systems, etc. Maybe do a complete AFM overhaul of each plane and then release it as a 19.99 module.

 

Go at the same rate until all Lomac games are successfully ported into DCS. At the same time, you have continuous updates across the board to create a master product. Once all is done, release a SUPER sim of all the aircraft.


Edited by EtherealN
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Slug88,

 

I think selling each refitted and broken off LOMAC plane for DCS compatability for $29.99 would have generated more money AND given the ED team more time inbetween to fix bugs.


Edited by T-Bone

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Why "fail"?

 

Someone brings up a good point about a legal technicality that is screwing ED over because of a greedy and unsupportive publisher who bought the rights to this game back when it was Flanker 2.5 and you disagree?

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Do you see any simulator that reproduce the f-15, a-10, mig-29,su-25,su-27, su-33 and black shark better than lomac and Black Shark, I don't if you don't like the sim why do you have a pirated copy. It is because people like you that the sim industry is so small. I made a commitment my self to buy all may sims legally because I have seen here and in lock-on all the effort that it requires to produce a simulator; also I help ensure that in the future we could have a better product like the one you are asking for, like if it was like getting an orange from a tree.

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Common sense? Tell me Steve, since you're so new and updated on things. What common sense is there in releasing an add on pack for a 7 year old game that cannot be bought in stores or anywhere for that matter? So much common sense that the only customer base that will ever know what Flaming Cliffs even means is the current Flaming Cliffs customer base? With the tiny feature list of tweaks and patch updates, not even the Digital Combat Simulator customer base, who may have never played lomac would know what flaming cliffs is about.

 

This:

Time and money? Creating all new models, FM's, and cockpits for 7 planes is a huge effort. Probably not something that could be cranked out in 9 months, like FC2.0 was.

 

In fact how are you going to market what essentially is a large patch as a 29.99 product? In a sense, I feel like ED is trying to squeeze as much money as they can out of this community but I love them too much for keeping flight sim gaming alive to really get angry at that fact.

Yep, you love them this much:

Like I don't even have my original Lomac CD, and will probably have to pirate a version to buy Flaming Cliffs 2.0

They're not trying to squeeze anyone, they're trying to maintain their costs and profit margin and due to running overtime, it costs more. Nothing is for free.

 

I think what T-Bone means is why not cut up Flaming Cliffs or Lomac for that matter into bite sized chunks. Release them separately as DCS games, update plane models one at a time (how hard it is to create a singular Flanker model) and release it as DCS modules.

 

For instance, lets look at this:

Every 6 months, they'll take a plane from Flaming cliffs. Lets say Flanker, update the model, weapons, radar systems, etc. Maybe do a complete AFM overhaul of each plane and then release it as a 19.99 module.

 

Go at the same rate until all Lomac games are successfully ported into DCS. At the same time, you have continuous updates across the board to create a master product. Once all is done, release a SUPER sim of all the aircraft.

 

Not really, once all is done you have an upgraded sim of all the aircraft that you've already flown the guts out of. The FC2.0 release is the middle ground of compatibility with their newer products while not wasting wads of time recreating the wheel.

I'd hazard a guess that most people would prefer a new DCS aircraft instead of ones they've already smashed about the place for years.

 

All your suggesting is that ED spend a whole heap of time recreating aircraft that the FC2.0 release will address to an adequate level... that is time, and a whole heap of money, for a marginal benefit.

 

As i said in another thread, if you don't like the way things are headed then you don't actually *have* to buy this product. If it isn't what you want, then don't buy it. Sales speak louder than words.

 

BTW, just man up and pay the 5 bucks for another copy of LOMAC through ebay... pirating it and then saying ED made you do it is just ridiculous.

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Why "fail"?

 

Someone brings up a good point about a legal technicality that is screwing ED over because of a greedy and unsupportive publisher who bought the rights to this game back when it was Flanker 2.5 and you disagree?

 

So? Should we give him a medal for bringing up an issue that is completely out of everyone's hands apart from ED?

It's not a good point, it's a blatantly obvious one and there isn't even any solution offered to get away from ubisoft, if that's what ED even want to do.

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Tell me Steve, since you're so new and updated on things. What common sense is there in releasing an add on pack for a 7 year old game that cannot be bought in stores or anywhere for that matter?

 

Ever been to lockon.co.uk? I advice you to make sure to check your facts, or my attachement. :)

 

Also, I'd like to remind everyone to be calm. If you take offense at something someone says, count to ten and (if it is serious), click "report post" and we will handle it.

lomac.thumb.jpg.ffe05f4cf4111e16e9d7fd78e65cf267.jpg


Edited by EtherealN
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In fact how are you going to market what essentially is a large patch as a 29.99 product? In a sense, I feel like ED is trying to squeeze as much money as they can out of this community but I love them too much for keeping flight sim gaming alive to really get angry at that fact.

 

Swapping to the new generation TFCSE is a "large patch"? I suppose Quake 2 was only a patch to Quake 1, as well? ;)

 

I think what T-Bone means is why not cut up Flaming Cliffs or Lomac for that matter into bite sized chunks. Release them separately as DCS games, update plane models one at a time (how hard it is to create a singular Flanker model) and release it as DCS modules.

 

Pretty hard when it needs to be military grade in detail and therefore relies a lot on information that happens to be closely guarded secrets of militaries. We are not talking about just cobbling together a new 3DSmax model, you know. We are talking about modelling very exact aerodynamics, laser physics, avionics, radars, detection equipment and it's also good to know how the electrical wiring and hydraulic plumbing is configured so that failure modeling can be up to DCS standards.

 

This is a huge job, and for many of the LO planes it is just not possible unless there's a military contract in the background (like for the A10C) - and even then there is a lot of red tape since the military customer has to okey the whole thing.

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Pretty hard when it needs to be military grade in detail and therefore relies a lot on information that happens to be closely guarded secrets of militaries. We are not talking about just cobbling together a new 3DSmax model, you know. We are talking about modelling very exact aerodynamics, laser physics, avionics, radars, detection equipment and it's also good to know how the electrical wiring and hydraulic plumbing is configured so that failure modeling can be up to DCS standards.

 

This is a huge job, and for many of the LO planes it is just not possible unless there's a military contract in the background (like for the A10C) - and even then there is a lot of red tape since the military customer has to okey the whole thing.

 

OK, if some sacrifices must be made, who are we to argue even if it means taking the F-15C and A-10A out of the equation ;)

 

But, I assume that more than enough info should be available on the 29, 27 and 25 for them to be patched to the Black Shark standard eventually.

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It takes what, a year to introduce a completely new airframe? So if LOMAC is scrubbed for DCS models as what you suggested, then import what, seven planes? That's 7 years of wait time to get up to where they're at right now with FC 2, just under a new brand.

 

Screw that.


Edited by Booger
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FC2 gets more content and brings Lock On right up to date with the intention that it remains compatible with the DCS series.

 

I know I prefer the idea of DCS with the FC aircraft, rather than DCS with KA50 and A10 and another nine months wait...

 

As to whether it should be a patch or not - ED have taken many months to get FC2 ready and naturally would like a return. I suspect they weighed up the business aspect and I think we're lucky that FC is getting the upgrade at all, especially considering it's taken much longer than planned.

 

I haven't forgotten the price rise, BTW. For me it's what I might expect to pay.

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im well aware of this feature. remember bs was originally an addon to fc, see where that went?

Well, it'll (still) be kind of an addon if (or more positively: when) it's compatible with the new FC2 -- crazy vicious circle ;)

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What common sense is there in releasing an add on pack for a 7 year old game that cannot be bought in stores or anywhere for that matter?

 

I gather you DON'T live in the UK mate? Because you can get LOMAC virtually anywhere that sell PC games!

 

For instances there's a department store chain named Wilkinsons that sell it. The Office Suppliers Staples also sell it. I have even seen some garden centers with a small supply of Lomac.

 

Heres a few links that sell it: http://www.cex.co.uk/search/index.php?rad_which_stock=1&stext=lock+on&refinecat=956 http://www.focusmm.co.uk/shop/Lock-On-Air-Combat-Simulation-pr-1268.html http://www.play.com/Games/PC/4-/3406160/Lock-On-Air-Combat-Simulation/Product.html?ptsl=1&ob=Price&fb=0&&_$ja=tsid:11518|cc:|prd:3406160|cat:Simulations http://www.gameseek.co.uk/pd/PC8hg0xe65bfw3ym9z/

http://hmv.com/hmvweb/displayProductDetails.do?sku=35596&WT.mc_id=101689

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orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, download it from www.lockon.co.uk

 

 

I think what thingy means is port the LOFC plane with data in to DCS: 29.99

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