FC 2.0?? su27 vs f15???

[Pilotasso]

As if flanker pilots dont shoot and turn back... All missiles in 1.12 are afected the same way.

[GGTharos]

Ofcourse I want a lower pk from far. If a bandit fires at me from 70km away then turns away I don't want that missile floating around dead waiting to pick me up at an unrealistic angle. This is the BS which is in 1.12 and by all accounts its still going to be there.

 

A missile with INS would do exactly that anyway, just from a 'more realistic' angle. But I really doubt 70km shots will end up much like this any more.

 

So in effect F-15 vs Su-27 BVR is all fine and addressed for the F-15 pilot (with added unrealistic bonuses) but same old BS for the Flanker pilot, thanks.

 

Actually an effort was made to better the situation for the flanker drivers also. We'll see how this turns out.

 

An effort has not been made to:

- Reduce R-27E series maneuverability

- Reduce russian radar efficiency

 

among other things that would have also been pretty realistic. You already have it pretty good, and you just don't know it. Stop complaining, it isn't going to get anyone anywhere.

 

The unfortunate fact is that far more realistic missiles will appear in DCS; for FC, it is what it is. Period. Again, ED's decision - they decided that this will balance out best right now.

[Frostie]

As if flanker pilots dont shoot and turn back... All missiles in 1.12 are afected the same way.

Like I said 2.0 should be sorted for F-15 pilots but sadly not for Flanker ones.

[104th_Crunch]

So in effect F-15 vs Su-27 BVR is all fine and addressed for the F-15 pilot (with added unrealistic bonuses) but same old BS for the Flanker pilot, thanks.

 

What unrealistic bonuses in particular Frostie? I don't understand all this about the F-15 getting more than the other planes. Everything announced does not say that to me. Maybe it is because I have no favorite and enjoy all the fighters equally, but I don't see what the stink is about. I don't think it is because people here really do want game balance over realism, is it?

[Frostie]

What unrealistic bonuses in particular Frostie? I don't understand all this about the F-15 getting more than the other planes. Everything announced does not say that to me. Maybe it is because I have no favorite and enjoy all the fighters equally, but I don't see what the stink is about. I don't think it is because people here really do want game balance over realism, is it?

The bounus of having a missile which aquires targets outside of what should be a reasonable scan zone that is all.

Im taking about F-15 v Su-27 in this instance but it is also true of MiG-29 vs Su-27.

It is the BVR breaker for me and what makes the maddog culture of ET, 77 and 120 so prevaliant in servers now which makes a mockery of true BVR.

[RvEYoda]

Quoting Scart from Russian side of the forums. Perhaps you should do more research about F-15C being 1/3 of what it is... :music_whistling:

 

The point everyone of you is missing is the fact that it is impossible to create a REALISTIC performance of any jet. This is military tech, things aren't exactly kosher in terms of availability of information, judgment calls have to be made, assumptions on how certain systems perform, and guess what even peer pressure is also a factor.

 

Availability of documents on the US side is far more open than for example on the Russian side. Unlike the US, Russian military companies didn't bother to "advertise" to the public to gain support/financial investments, and only now they are learning to do so. While in the US every time I ride the metro and pass by the Pentagon there are full blown advertisements about F-35s, Tankers and other BS... guess what, do you really honestly think they are advertising 100% factual specification? So, my point is that in every single decision that is made in order to so called bring "reality" to the game there is a judgment call that is made... and that judgment call can go a long way towards overdeveloping one or the other and this effects both sides.

 

The way I see it, and like someone has previously noted, a bunch of F-15 fanboys got together and started flooding ED with various documentation in order to make F-15C better. Great, what we have now is an AIM-120C that entered service in like 96, and based on some sources a variation of it (C5 or whatever) only entered service in 2000... and other various improvements. For example, can someone here with certainty say what engines are currently equipped to the SU-27s? SU-33s? SU-27SMs? that are currently serving in the Russian airforce? Nope, (was actually an argument earlier on the Russian forums) lack of documentation. Can someone with certainty say what algorithm the 27R, 27ER follows to account for maneuvering targets and chaff? Nope, lack of documentation. Can someone with certainty tell us AIM-120C's characteristics? that is currently in service?? Besides "oh its better" "oh its 20-30% faster and has longer range"?

 

Judgment calls are made, and if you are hoping for a world of realism in simulating military systems, all it is is hope... sorry.

 

Go ahead rep me into the negatives, seems to be a popular thing to do around here, for stating my opinion... kthx.

 

 

I'm sorry but these graphs say absolutely nothing.

I can also draw 2 lines of different colors that seem to conincide.

 

Funny enough, I can also scan documents and find one area out of 90% wrong where

10% actually match. Then I use these 10% to prove my case is right ?

 

This is not how to show things.

The facts are not that difficult to imagine. Most changes in the Fc2 are based on

documents from russian sources believe it or not, and confirmed by western ones.

 

Similarly the Mig29 for example has become stronger in dogfighting ( and so it well deserves! ). I would think twice before going up in a dogfight vs a mig29. In Fc1.12 it was

not very powerful in a dogfight. In my own personal opinion the F15 would no longer

be my primary choice for guns dogfighting plane in FC2, more than that I cannot say.

 

I know of just as many improvements for the red planes as the F15 in Fc2.

 

I doubt the devs will want to release much more information given how I hear it has been

twisted in many threads. People only read what they want to read/hear and then only spread

THAT particular part of information. But I dont speak for them, it is their decision make.

 

I can tell you one thing though. Every piece of change to improve the F15 in FC2 has been

thoroughly gone through by the devs. They are very critical to improvements of this kind.

If some of the people vouching for the blue planes got as they wanted, things would be

( from your point of view ) much much worse. Same goes for improvements of the red side planes.

 

What source do you have that say ER-ET-blabla has not been changed ?

What says AI aircraft has not been changed,

what says color pallette has not been changed ?

 

Selective information output from "leakers"...

 

Oh about something another person posted :

LRM was bypassed? I am surprised they would feel this an achievement...

It is just a lua script. Just load another lua script on top of it or remove it.

Or kill the lua export script engine before it reads the lrm script files, there are

100 ways. It wasnt designed with such a purpose.

If it for those that want it removes 95% of the people using an existing flaw on their server,

that is better than 0%, even if we cant get to 100% ? :)

Edited February 6, 2010 by =RvE=Yoda

[Pilotasso]

Its realy pointless at this time trying to convice people in this thread. They have proof ED wont change just F-15's and they want to see what they want to see for the sake of their agendas. Im donne trying to be reasonable.

 

For now on, all I can do is have as much fun as I can have so:

 

IN YOUR FACE! AMRAAMs SHALL RAIN DOWN UPON YOU LIKE HOT HAIL FROM HELL MUHAHAHAHAHA. :devil_2:

 

So you better run sidways. :D

 

See you in FC 2.0 ;)

Edited February 6, 2010 by Pilotasso

[Mustang]

I do like your sig Pilotasso hehe :thumbup:

[vrv]

This thread delivers. Whether its the hilarious Engrish skills or the raging this one should be stickied. You would figure after 17 pages someone would actually get an idea but I guess not. Next time I fly I am definitely spamming AMRAAMs even more than I do now just to spite my opponent.

[Aliboy]

Hi everyone I like flying the Su-27...but I don't like people who are using Kamikaze tactics on me and ECM Blinking...I'm also learning to Fly the F-15 and it feels like a whole new game to me...I hope Forum Admins don't mind me posting a small pic of today's tac view..Cu In the Skies :)

 

[Pilotasso]

ZOMG Im on TV!!! :D

[TheMoose]

I only ECM when defensive, manually with my finger :D besides this I never ECM, I don’t want to lite up lol:music_walkman: As for spamming missiles, well if in range.... lol but I always keep some in reserve ;)

Edited February 6, 2010 by TheMoose

[TheMoose]

Feel the wrath of a Quebecer lol ;)

[golfsierra2]

GG, it's pointless to keep arguing with these guys....save your breath and fingers. Only a small % of guys that fly online try to do it realistically anyway. This is a GAME and most will treat it just has it is.

 

1. Reading much of what was posted here in this forum, I tend to say 'nay'.

2. If you want to make more people fly it in a more realistic fashion, the simulation has to be more realistic. Speaking in terms of radar / weapon parameters, missile ranges, ECM, effects like jet wash, more detailed weather etc.

 

We'll see what FC 2.0 brings of good ( and bad) news. I'm looking forward.

Edited February 6, 2010 by golfsierra2

[Frostie]

Frostie, are you seriously saying this.......:megalol:

Serious!

I don't understand your rant and your making of sides like its one side vs another argument,many things have been said in this thread in favour of the Flanker which I totally disagree with, just stop with the sh## stirring nonsense.

 

Secondly I don't think you understand my post I didn't say I wanted the sim to be unrealistic to make it better, I said this is what has already happened to the 120, 77 and ET and is going to continue in 2.0 with the 120 at least. (making it unrealistic to perform better) It was an answer to a problem which is not going to be solved.

 

If the F-15's knock everything out of the sky...so be it...it was designed to do that. It doesn't have a 100+ kills to 0 loses for nothing.

The Sea Harrier has an undefeated A2A record as well, would you put that in the same bracket above the Flanker?

Like you keep banging on about, stats mean jack. Unless it favours you ofcourse.

Edited February 6, 2010 by Frostie

[GGTharos]

Serious!

I don't understand your rant and your making of sides like its one side vs another argument,many things have been said in this thread in favour of the Flanker which I totally disagree with, just stop with the sh## stirring nonsense.

 

That sounds like what you're doing right now ... I suggest you stop it.

 

Secondly I don't think you understand my post I didn't say I wanted the sim to be unrealistic to make it better, I said this is what has already happened to the 120, 77 and ET and is going to continue in 2.0 with the 120 at least. (making it unrealistic to perform better) It was an answer to a problem which is not going to be solved.

 

The problem is that you haven't understood anything either, and just gone on with your rant. As I've already said, the missile gimbals have been cut down. So actually, they have been made MORE realistic from where there was before.

 

I'm sorry that this compromise doesn't meet your expectations, but that's the way it's going to be.

[Teknetinium]

Its teamwork that makes this game realistic, Missile will never be accurate enough, many are missing the fun, so I encourage u to joint the teamwork and get the realism going ;)

[Renato71]

You are all fighting over small differences related to 2 missiles and 2 airplanes, and there are many more problems not solved, not announced to be solved, or announced as not to be solved.

Besides, there are claims from all sides that he is handling correct data. Crap! You need real life combat experience, screw all practices and friendly maneuvers.

 

Lets imagine that FC112 is 100% realistic. Who cares?

 

Who cares when it crashes or freezes during every 5th play, and there is horrible lagging when I join server with more then 6 players, AI is more stupid then fish (but with beautiful 3D models!) (and who cares about realism if it looks nice, no?), and there are endless amounts of aircraft and missiles (which is THE most unrealistic aspect of this sim!).

 

There are only 3 things that I care on the subject of SU-27 vs F-15 is:

- Is it going to be stable and without lagging on a server with more then 20 players on each side? Or will I have to switch to IL-2 when I want to feel how it is like to play with 50 people?

- Can I configure my game with a few clicks only, or will I have to spend endless months trying to get lucky with best hardware/software settings?

- Will I have to use additional programs to configure server, evaluate data, tweak graphics, and so on, or is that going to be a built-in feature?

[Vekkinho]

^

+1

 

Those who say that AMRAAM is bad and Eagles are too are those who say there's 4:1 ratio of red vs Blue IRL.

 

Can we expect FC2 servers with realistic AMRAAMs and 4 slots of realistic Eagles against 16 Su-27/MiG-29 with R-27R (no ETs)?!

 

It's OK with me!

Edited February 6, 2010 by Vekkinho

[Frostie]

The problem is that you haven't understood anything either, and just gone on with your rant. As I've already said, the missile gimbals have been cut down. So actually, they have been made MORE realistic from where there was before.

 

I'm sorry that this compromise doesn't meet your expectations, but that's the way it's going to be.

Yes most of the time im ranting for the sake of ranting, but what I don't want is to see you guys getting carried away with yourselfs as if 2.0 is going to be the be all and end all for realism and now we will see who wins at BVR. This is a foolish notion to believe, which many do, yes BVR should be better, but still not right because this sim will never be realisitic. For that reason I have to try and keep you guys in check.;)

 

And California man, yes the Sea Harrier was designed as a fleet defender, thats why it carried a very powerful A2A radar.

Edited February 6, 2010 by Frostie

[GGTharos]

I will claim that you're not on subject, though I appreciate the spirit of your post. Teamwork is a separate part of realism from aircraft/missile realism, and the latter plays a role in the former.

 

Its teamwork that makes this game realistic, Missile will never be accurate enough, many are missing the fun, so I encourage u to joint the teamwork and get the realism going ;)

[GGTharos]

Yes most of the time im ranting for the sake of ranting, but what I don't want is to see you guys getting carried away with yourselfs as if 2.0 is going to be the be all and end all for realism and now we will see who wins at BVR. This is a foolish notion to believe, which many do, yes BVR should be better, but still not right because this sim will never be realisitic. For that reason I have to try and keep you guys in check.;)

 

And California man, yes the Sea Harrier was designed as a fleet defender, thats why it carried a very powerful A2A radar.

 

A bunch of us know a whole lot more about how realistic FC2 is or is not than you think - you're preaching to the wrong choir in a way here. ;)

It's not like we looked at one side only. What gets implemented is not up to those of us who bring up issues.

[A.S]

Its teamwork that makes this game realistic, Missile will never be accurate enough, many are missing the fun, so I encourage u to joint the teamwork and get the realism going ;)

 

..we all need "something" to hang our hopes in ..right ? :smilewink:

[104th_Crunch]

There are only 3 things that I care on the subject of SU-27 vs F-15 is:

- Is it going to be stable and without lagging on a server with more then 20 players on each side? Or will I have to switch to IL-2 when I want to feel how it is like to play with 50 people?

- Can I configure my game with a few clicks only, or will I have to spend endless months trying to get lucky with best hardware/software settings?

- Will I have to use additional programs to configure server, evaluate data, tweak graphics, and so on, or is that going to be a built-in feature?

 

Many of us have experienced smooth play with 50 in a server. I would say if you cannot, then the problem lies on your end I believe. Really, I think much of the MP code for Lock On is pretty excellent considering there are many games with a much smaller player limit.

 

If LO 2 matches DCS:BS in stability, then you will be pleasantly surprised in that department.

 

sry for OT post

Edited February 6, 2010 by Crunch

[4csNIp]

su27 ''PRO'' pilot

 

Its bad picture,but zoom in ;)

Edited February 7, 2010 by =4c=sNIp