Logitech G940 - My Impressions

[ronht]

I've had a couple of days with the G940 and wanted to pass along my thoughts.

 

First of all, I've had the following HOTAS setups -

 

Saitek X36

Saitek X45

Thrustmaster Cougar with the IJ Uber mods, hall sensors and Simpad rudder pedals.

 

And for those of you that have been around SimHQ and other forums, I was the creator of the SaitekHelp web site several years ago. That said, I do NOT have any connections to Logitech or Saitek.

 

I won't go over most of the appearance issues that have already been covered. My impression to-date is that the G940 is a quality product. If there is anything I would physically change with the G940, it would be to make the rudder pedals a bit wider and allow a bit longer throw. The Simped pedals have spoiled me big time.

 

The G940 has a bit of a learning curve, setting it up with various games as it's seen as 3 separate controllers in some and not others. For instance, the Joy X axis on the joystick is pitch and you may find that Joy X axis is used on the throttle as well when the throttle is seen as a different controller. So it takes a bit of trial and error to get everything set up to your liking if you're not used to assigning separate axis to separate controllers. Also some games require you to invert the axis to get a correct response in game.

 

The G940 easily adapts itself well to assigning buttons directly through the game, as in Black Shark, LockOn, Rise of Flight, FSX and others, or by use of the Logitech programing software. In addition, you can use a combination of the two - As an example, the Logitech software does things like cycle commands which you can't do with the same DX button in a game, or you can assign a button to one of the in game modifiers (like RAlt) that is used in Black Shark to get more than one command out of a DX button assignment in-game.

 

It also takes some trial and error getting the Force Feedback and axis sensitivity set up to your liking. As an example, I've set the rudder axis to the lowest sensitivity at full range to get the best response in Black Shark. (which is needed due to the short throw of the rudder pedals causing the rudder response to be oversensitive at any other setting)

 

One of the biggest issues to understand with the G940 with Black Shark is in order to achieve the correct trimmer stick response you have to put a piece of tape over the optical dead-man switch or the joystick will not hold the trimmed position when you let go of it. This is not a big deal, and in other games you'll find that you'll need to take the tape off. As an example in Rise of Flight, the bumps on the ground are felt through the stick on landing. It's a great effect, but if you let go of the stick with the tape still on, the stick will continue to buck it's way across your desk.

 

So far I've used the G940 in Black Shark, LockOn, Rise of Flight and FSX and overall I have been very impressed with the immersion that FFB adds and how well the G940 performs. The tactical feedback the G940 provides in game is impressive.

 

This is THE HOTAS for Black Shark. With the dead-man switch covered (so the stick remains in the trimmed position) Black Shark becomes a whole different game. It may take a bit of re-learning to get to your current comfort level flying in Black Shark, but once you see how the trimmer really is supposed to work and discover the accuracy that the Flight Director mode offers in strafing, attack runs and free flight it will change how you look at this simulation in my opinion.

 

LockOn, Rise of Flight and FSX also all have a different and more realistic feel - especially with trimming and flying on the edge of the performance envelope. The tactile response the stick provides in these simulations is nothing short of great.

 

Overall, I'm very impressed with the G940 HOTAS, and would highly recommend it to anyone.

 

That's my 2 cents anyway.

 

ronht

Edited September 15, 2009 by ronht

[Callsign.Vega]

Did you ever fly the Falcon4 series with your Cougar with mods? How do you think the G940 would stack up to the Cougar when flying the F-16 sim?

[Boulund]

I'd love a picture or two describing where this piece of black tape should be placed. I'm not actually thinking about buying one, but interested anyway =)

[159th_Viper]

Ta - Interesting Review :)

 

First time I've stumbled across the mention of the Dead-Man's switch and how it pertains to BS. One would have thought that the switch would have been capable of holding either the 'Engaged' or 'Disengaged' mode, thus negating the 'Keep depressed with Tape' procedure......Always something not quite right, eh :D

 

A difficult choice indeed!

[Vault]

Hi, can you tell me what sensors the G940 uses? is it pots, hall or optical sensors or a mixture of sensors?. Thanks.

[-Bazong-]

Hi, can you tell me what sensors the G940 uses? is it pots, hall or optical sensors or a mixture of sensors?. Thanks.

 

The stick uses a Hall sensor for x and y. Since they've not mentioned (that I know of) what sensors the throttle and pedals use, I assume they are not Hall sensors.

[Vault]

The stick uses a Hall sensor for x and y. Since they've not mentioned (that I know of) what sensors the throttle and pedals use, I assume they are not Hall sensors.

 

I hope there's no pots in the G940 I really like the look of this HOTAS. Thanks for answering.

[-Bazong-]

I hope there's no pots in the G940 I really like the look of this HOTAS. Thanks for answering.

 

I would'nt mind pots in the throttle, as long as they are of high quality they can last many many years. I hope the rudders have no pots though..

 

The only thing keeping me from buying this right away now is a statement regarding the "grinding feel" of the FFB motors (forgot who wrote it); that if the msFFB2 (which I use) feels like sand, the G940 feels like pebbles..

hm..

Also it has to have as little FFB centerplay (not axis centerplay) around the trimmed position as the msFFB2 I thinks, regarding this Logitech_Mark has said that it's a software thing..

 

@ ronht: Thank you very much for the review!! You've brought me one step closer to buying it ;)

[Kirai]

I would'nt mind pots in the throttle, as long as they are of high quality they can last many many years. I hope the rudders have no pots though..

 

The only thing keeping me from buying this right away now is a statement regarding the "grinding feel" of the FFB motors (forgot who wrote it); that if the msFFB2 (which I use) feels like sand, the G940 feels like pebbles..

hm..

Also it has to have as little FFB centerplay (not axis centerplay) around the trimmed position as the msFFB2 I thinks, regarding this Logitech_Mark has said that it's a software thing..

 

@ ronht: Thank you very much for the review!! You've brought me one step closer to buying it ;)

 

I agree with the grinding feel. I have the x52 system right now and I the only problem I have is with the grinding feel in the joystick, its hard to make precise adjustments, I really need a smooth stick and if G940 fails on this part I have no use to change my system setup.

[blaster454]

Nice review, ronht!

 

Your impressions pretty much mirror mine. I have not had the chance yet to try the G940 on many sims but am looking forward to doing so,

 

I agree that the quality is good ... it's actually better than I expected. The "feel" is good and the material seems more than adequate. I have seen nothing to make me think the assemblies are flimsy or cheaply made.

 

I too have covered the deadman sensor with a small piece of electrical tape and agree that the stick seems to perform well in Black Shark. I have not yet tried to set up a profile for BS or any other game. I did set up within BS to assign enough controls and axes to do some test flying. I still have a lot of tuning to do concerning FFB and the other axis parameters. FFB is new to me and will take some getting used to.

 

I think it would be a fairly simple matter to fabricate a sleeve of some sort that fit around the stick shaft to make covering and uncovering the sensor a simple matter. The sensor is in a small window on the right side of the stick shaft, about halfway up from the hand rest.

 

In Black Shark, the G940 is recognized as three distinct controllers. This served to confuse me for a bit but became more familiar with "play" :smilewink:. It appears that any shift function assigned in the stick does not apply to the throttle (and vice versa). But you can assign separate shift functions to both assemblies to get further functionality. I have not looked yet to see how the Mode switch operates but I'd assume that it covers all switchology.

 

The Logitech Gaming SW seems to be fairly powerful. It doesn't have the programmability or logical functions as in the CH and Cougar assemblies (we can always hope, though). But it does allow setting up cycling controls (where each button press executes a function--or maybe macro--and then loops around to the start of the list after the last press). It allows for the creation of "POV" commands where you can name a command and then assign each function for a hat's positions. Then you can just assign that command to a hat rather than having to go through each button press again. There is enough difference between the Logitech profiling SW and the others to make it useful to study the SW in detail to get everything out of it that is available. I like the way it is presented (the GUI) and the functionality.

 

All in all, I am pleased with the G940 and will be replacing my X52 Pro with it (including the pedals which, although more closely spaced, I find to be very usable and just as sturdy as the Saitek pedals. I'm anxious to see how people start to use the profiling SW :).

 

One thing I haven't figured out yet is exactly where profiles are stored :huh:. Sounds strange but I have the SW installed on both XP and Vista 64 and haven't seen a profile file yet. You can import and export profiles (in xml format but apparently not formatted for human reading--no line breaks??) and it looks like command tables (lists of keystrokes associated with a named command) are an integral part of the profile. I have an unfounded suspicion that Logitech is storing the profile data in the registry but I am hoping that is totally wrong ... nobody would do that, right?.

 

Update: I found the profiles in (for WinXP)

C:\Documents and Settings\<User Name>\Local Settings\Application Data\Logitech\Gaming Software

They are harder to find because they are named with a GUID rather than with the name you supply for the profile (the name is embedded in the file, though). The profiles are in .xml format and are human readable with IE8 (at least). For some reason, Notepad++ doesn't put any line feeds in and they are next to impossible to decipher with that app. They are still not designed to be super user friendly because they use device ID's and other shortcuts...but they can be figured out. There must be an easy way to build a command table for a sim using maybe Excel and saving to .xml format ... will have to investigate. I know that putting in all 400 some odd BS commands into the profile using Add Command is tedious (no, I stopped long before that :))

Edited September 15, 2009 by blaster454
Updated with profile location

[emenance]

While people will always have their own preferance I think it would be great if ED will put together a " get up and running " or " recommended " profile for this new stick.

 

Besides, if Logitech would get involved with this simple matter I think alot could be learned on both sides. Everybody wins that way!! Hey Logitech guy.... did you hear me?

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Hi Roht,

 

Thank you very much for taking your time to share your G940 experience. There is a lots of people looking at the new G940 and upcoming "X-65".

 

You say that the stick works really good in BS. Does that mean that the stick stays firm in the position when trimming? I experimented with both Logitech and Saitek FF sticks and neither did the job for me.

 

I made a little video to show the problem with the Saitek EvoForce. Logitech stick behaved the saem:

[Callsign.Vega]

That's going to be a problem with all force feedback joysticks. When you let go of the pressure on the stick with trim engaged, there is some "slack" that will need to be reacted against. These joysticks are not designed precisely enough to have no slack like in real aircraft. That would be very expensive.

 

When the slack is taken out after pressure is transferred from your hand to the force feedback mechanism, the movement of course registers with the axis sensors of the joystick and hence your control in the simulator has moved from reference.

[-Bazong-]

I think the biggest problem with the slack is in BS, when you trim and let go of the stick/ or engage AP, the slack changes the stick position to give involuntary control input..

When you let go of the stick, the deadman switch could deactivate control input as well I thinks (presuming the deadman switch does'nt recenter the stick as is the case with the G940 (and not with the msFFB2))..

[DragonRR]

That's going to be a problem with all force feedback joysticks. When you let go of the pressure on the stick with trim engaged, there is some "slack" that will need to be reacted against. These joysticks are not designed precisely enough to have no slack like in real aircraft. That would be very expensive.

 

When the slack is taken out after pressure is transferred from your hand to the force feedback mechanism, the movement of course registers with the axis sensors of the joystick and hence your control in the simulator has moved from reference.

 

Whilst this makes sense I don't actually think this is the case. Hajduk's linked video appears to show that the FFB can place the joystick exactly. The hall effect sensors (or pots in the evo I assume) should be able to provide accurate coordinates for the FFB mechanism. In addition IF the slack was normal then the slack would (probably) always be present. In other words the FFB mechanism would only take affect if the stick was moved a few degrees which doesn't appear to be the case. On top of that, the FFB mechanism would struggle to return the stick to the center position and there would be slack. Admittedly a slack has been mentioned with the G940 but Logitech have (AFAIK) said that this is down to BS, not the stick.

[Kirai]

I have just ordered this system and I hope to recieve it next week. Can someone tell me the size of the throttle/stick (base length, hight etc).

 

Thanks in advance

[blaster454]

I have just ordered this system and I hope to recieve it next week. Can someone tell me the size of the throttle/stick (base length, hight etc).

 

Thanks in advance

 

Throttle base: 19 cm wide at bottom, 23 cm deep, 5 cm high to base buttons, 18 cm high to top of throttle.

 

Stick: same base dimensions, 26 cm to top of stick.

 

All approximate :smilewink:. If you need precise dimensions to fit into a pit, I could measure more exactly.

[Kirai]

Throttle base: 19 cm wide at bottom, 23 cm deep, 5 cm high to base buttons, 18 cm high to top of throttle.

 

Stick: same base dimensions, 26 cm to top of stick.

 

All approximate :smilewink:. If you need precise dimensions to fit into a pit, I could measure more exactly.

 

Ah thanks a bunch for the input :thumbup:. Yeah I'm going to fit it into my little pit but I think these numbers is enough for the moment, thanks again :)

Edited September 26, 2009 by Kirai