reactivation concerns

[Guru]

today i sent an email to EA, regardind my concerns in the "5x reactivation" thing:

 

"

Dear developers…

 

 

I wonder if you could “shed some light” in a few questions I have!

 

 

I want to download FC as I truly appreciate your amazing and continuous work on the flight sim’s genre.

 

But I have a doubt regarding the Starforce protection system, doubt witch I’m sure, many potential buyers have.

 

 

What does the 5 admissible reactivations, and the more than 40% hardware changes on the PC mean?

 

 

Let’s suppose, for instance, that I need to uninstall the game, or, for instance, windows XP itself. Does this mean that for each time I uninstall/reinstall FC, I

 

Use up one activation.

 

 

Because if it’s so, then, in fact, I’m not buying the addon…, I’m “renting” it!!!

 

 

What happens when I use up the 5 activations??? Do I need to buy FC again??? Doesn’t make any sense!!

 

 

Same goes for the 40% hardware issue!

 

 

We are constantly upgrading hardware (doesn’t necessarily mean that we’re buying a new PC altogether), mainly because of the requirements of software, in particular, flight sim’s with the necessities of LOMAC.

 

 

So what does “40%” mean!!!

 

 

Please take the time to enlighten me on this matter!!

 

I think it’s important for us all, who buy, support, and appreciate your work.

 

 

Thank you in advance.

 

 

Pedro Matos

"Guru"

"

I'm sure some think the same way!!

I'll let you know if they say something!!!!!

 

[BullsEye]

today i sent an email to EA, regardind my concerns in the "5x reactivation" thing:

 

 

i think that you have write to the wrong company :)

 

In any case this is a big matter.

 

I'm waiting to buy the add-on and if the policy remain the same i NEVER BUY this add-on.

 

I love the PC-World and normally every 2 months i will change something (processor, graphic adapter, ram).

 

bye

Bulls

[Guru]

Sorry, I sent to ED, not EA!!!!

[Sky Eagle]

Yes indead.

Very good point about the renting

[Chicote]

Likewise guy's. Still think that Starforce is the wrong way to go so will sit this one out. Hopefully will be able to pick up a copy through SIMW if they release a CD version in the West w/o Starforce.

 

Otherwise will stick with 1.02.

 

Best of luck an happy flying.......

[wsoul2k]

Yes indead.

Very good point about the renting

 

Well you never BUY any software today you buy the rigth to use it even on windows xp you only have the rigth to use it the software belong to ED.

 

SO. you are in some way renting it.

 

Im not sure but i think this is commented in the EULA

[Revvin]

If you read any EULA closely (yeah I know who does?) you will find that they all just give you the right to use and you don't own them. As an example I picked Call of Duty off of my software collection shelf as it's a different genre and different publisher to ED or Ubi and at the back of the manual it lists the agreement that is also displayed when you install the game:

 

"Activision grants you the non-exclusive, non-transferable, limited right and license to install and use one copy of this Program solely and exclusively for your personal use. All rightsnot specifically granted under this Agreement are reserved by Activision. This Program is licensed, not sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in this Program and should not be construed as a sale of any rights in this Program."

 

This is a standard EULA so you're really just renting any game you have.

[BBushe]

If you read any EULA closely (yeah I know who does?) you will find that they all just give you the right to use and you don't own them. As an example I picked Call of Duty off of my software collection shelf as it's a different genre and different publisher to ED or Ubi and at the back of the manual it lists the agreement that is also displayed when you install the game:

 

"Activision grants you the non-exclusive, non-transferable, limited right and license to install and use one copy of this Program solely and exclusively for your personal use. All rightsnot specifically granted under this Agreement are reserved by Activision. This Program is licensed, not sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in this Program and should not be construed as a sale of any rights in this Program."

 

This is a standard EULA so you're really just renting any game you have.

 

It occurred to me during the process that this is an uneexpected benefit of buying online vs buying from a shop. During the order process the EULA was displayed, and as I was just about to spend money, I actually read it for a change. I read it had starforce...and I serioulsy considered not buying it. In the end my love of simming won out, just. I doubt I'd buy other games that had SF in them (though now I have it, I guess it's a moot point...)

 

When buying a copy in the store you don't see the EULA, usually until install time. In the US the courts kindly ruled that you don't even need to click 'accept' but that the initial purchase counts as accepting the EULA...

[britgliderpilot]

Been lurking and waiting for the answer for this for some time . . . . no final answer, but here's what we've got so far:

 

You only actually need a new activation when the hardware itself changes. Software changes shouldn't affect it, small upgrades shouldn't affect it, reinstalls shouldn't affect it. You can reinstall as many times as you like on each activation.

 

Starforce only validates keys - when all that key's activations are used up, they say the developer/publisher can choose to give you a new key if they like.

Since ED is selling this from their own servers, it should be pretty easy for them to work out if you actually paid them for their sim . . . . however, whether they'll give you another key in time has NOT been answered.

 

 

In the event of ED or Starforce folding, the Starforce rep said the thing to do was to ask the last act of ED to be a patch for the product that removes the copy protection - something they may do in good time anyway.

 

 

I have no major panics about this system, and will buy FC when I can get to an internet connection that'll let me download it. Another week . . . fingers crossed ;)

 

To those who are not going to buy it because it's time-limited . . . . how many games do you play from five years ago?

For a five year life, at $7 a year, it should be well worth the money. If you think $35 is too much to pay for the licence to play for five years . . . . . . I respectfully disagree, and think that completely denying yourself this development of a flightsim is a daft attitude to take.

[Chicote]

Quote

 

"Well you never BUY any software today you buy the rigth to use it even on windows xp you only have the rigth to use it the software belong to ED.

 

SO. you are in some way renting it.

 

Im not sure but i think this is commented in the EULA"

 

 

Correct you do not by the software IP but currently what you do buy is a mechanism for installing the software as many times as you want on as many system configs as you want as long as only one installation is in use at any time.

 

What Starforce does is force us to become system admins who need to monitor how we change our own hardware on our own systems to ensure we do not use up our valuable re-activations. This may only be a minor hassle if you believe FC merits this additional effort but once you have several software developers all with their own versions of Starforce or an alternative CP system monitoring your hardware then you end up in a straight jacket and your

freedom to change your hardware is dictated by software vendors. Thin edge of wedge. For us older game players we only need to think back to previous CP methods which required you to install hardware dongles for games to work to realise how stupid this ends up being.

[BBushe]

 

To those who are not going to buy it because it's time-limited . . . . how many games do you play from five years ago?

For a five year life, at $7 a year, it should be well worth the money. If you think $35 is too much to pay for the licence to play for five years . . . . . . I respectfully disagree, and think that completely denying yourself this development of a flightsim is a daft attitude to take.

 

Grand Prix Legends, Falcon 4, Red Baron II, much older than 5 years. Only now do I have something more fun that GPL (n2003 + GTP mod).

 

At the rate the sim world is going, they (plus il2 and lomac) may never be actually surpassed...

 

offers prayers for rFactor, Lomac v2, BOB (maddox version)...

[britgliderpilot]

Grand Prix Legends, Falcon 4, Red Baron II, much older than 5 years. Only now do I have something more fun that GPL (n2003 + GTP mod).

 

At the rate the sim world is going, they (plus il2 and lomac) may never be actually surpassed...

 

offers prayers for rFactor, Lomac v2, BOB (maddox version)...

 

 

Then I stand corrected - but even so, I think playing for five years (even at the cost of $35, whoo how expensive) is still better than never playing at all ;)

[Guru]

...or, for example, EECH!!!! (look where it is now!!)

 

Just installed it, a few months ago...and that game is 5 years old!!

 

I do know about EULA's...but their not time limited!!!

 

Plus, as we all know, maybe FC won't run smooth as silk, till ....say, a few upgrades from now!!!!

[Guest ruggbutt]

 

You only actually need a new activation when the hardware itself changes. Software changes shouldn't affect it, small upgrades shouldn't affect it, reinstalls shouldn't affect it. You can reinstall as many times as you like on each activation.

 

If this were only true. It's not, you are penalized for every single install.

[Merlin]

dont use automatic, use manual.

[Guest ruggbutt]

Now you tell me....................

[BBushe]

Then I stand corrected - but even so, I think playing for five years (even at the cost of $35, whoo how expensive) is still better than never playing at all ;)

 

oh, don';t get me wrong, I've no problem with paying for the stuff, but I do worry that I won't be able to activate FC after a new install in five years time !

 

oops, forgot EECH, as I uninstalled that a few months back...

 

I will take the time to do a manual activation!

[Greenies]

I really thought all this information would be available when the game was released. Who am buying something without knowing what they are buying? Would any of you pay $35.000 for a car, and then later on find out that you are in fact only leasing it, and that it will just stop running after you have bought a new exhaust system for the fourth time?

 

I know the comparison between the add-on and a car isn't perfect, but my point is that, unless I know what I'm buying, my Visa card stays where it is (in my wallet).

 

I don't have a PayPal account, so I won't be able to buy the add-on until payment by Visa is possible. Therefore I won't buy it for some days anyway, but I understand that some of you have already payed for it...

[condor11]

I really thought all this information would be available when the game was released. Who am buying something without knowing what they are buying? Would any of you pay $35.000 for a car, and then later on find out that you are in fact only leasing it, and that it will just stop running after you have bought a new exhaust system for the fourth time?

 

I know the comparison between the add-on and a car isn't perfect, but my point is that, unless I know what I'm buying, my Visa card stays where it is (in my wallet).

 

I don't have a PayPal account, so I won't be able to buy the add-on until payment by Visa is possible. Therefore I won't buy it for some days anyway, but I understand that some of you have already payed for it...

 

You do not need to have or create PayPal acount to get FC. You can use credit card PayPal processes it and that's it. In that case you don't really care what it is called, PayPal, Momma's Bank or Joe's Money Mart. Unless credit card from your country is not supported. But make sure you select your country first and then select credit card type.

[Albatros]

Under this circumstances I'll never buy FC - and I'm sure many will not. Limited activations and a copy protection thats full of bugs and so is able to disturb your whole windows-installation - no, thanks. Fool s.o. else.

[W-Natas]

I think its an awfull start of an addon. The one part cant buy it(paypal only), the second wont risk a buy and the third part got problems with the activation. I hope ED have learned about these mistakes and make some changes soon. The only thing that prevents me to buy FC is this type of copyprotection, his bugs and the missing dedicated Server.

 

A hint to ED:

Make a fullverison of FC and sell it in local stores, with a normal CD-copyprotection and a online key. If "Wings Simulation" was able to sell this stupid game "Söldner" then ED will be able to sell the best Flight-Simulator. Dont give UP!

[2IAEFulcrumbg]

dont use automatic, use manual.

I did used the manual , because it says it's recommended ! :(

So -the same destiny as ruggbutt

 

And how about the people with english not being their first language, about all the EULA and other law stuff ! And can someone point to any other game with only five limitations of use ! ?

I'm happy I bought FC, but at the same time I'm sad , because I feel like I have been tricked ! :( Oh, and btw , just ordered new GF 6600 ! I hope it is not considered as a VIP part of my PC and given the heavy rating of 40% of my hardware, because this is when I'm going to get ultra upset , and do ...what ? Do nothing, because I feel helpless with those 3 activations left ! How about my children ? Are they ever gonna see what their father used to play ? No !

 

No more comment !

Watch out for the BIG BROTHER in the near future ! When you are not going to be able to go to the toilet without permission of something electronic ! This 21st century sucks ! :(

 

Here something new ! :

All this hackers and crackers and whatsoever ! They are not the pirates, they are the people who like the challenge ! So they might just try to get ambitious and so on ! Don't forget that every action have a counteraction !

So at the end the winners are neither we or ED ! It is total mess !

[W-Natas]

All this hackers and crackers and whatsoever !...

The most hackers are russian and korean ^^

[DayGlow]

I think its an awfull start of an addon. The one part cant buy it(paypal only), the second wont risk a buy and the third part got problems with the activation. I hope ED have learned about these mistakes and make some changes soon. The only thing that prevents me to buy FC is this type of copyprotection, his bugs and the missing dedicated Server.

 

A hint to ED:

Make a fullverison of FC and sell it in local stores, with a normal CD-copyprotection and a online key. If "Wings Simulation" was able to sell this stupid game "Söldner" then ED will be able to sell the best Flight-Simulator. Dont give UP!

 

If ED could sell it on a store shelf, I'm pretty sure they would have. There are much larger issues finding a publisher to produce, distribute and get shelf space for a game. Plus the fact that Ubi has the rights to LOMAC in the west, but has no interest in funding the production of anything new.

 

ED is working on a new distribution model for sims since they are a niche market. Right now we are seeing the start of it, but unfortunatly the hicc-ups that come along with it as well.

 

I'm sure 1.2 will have a stronger launch and their future products even more smooth. We are getting in on the ground floor here as ED spreads it's wings and is taking control of all aspects of the development and distribution of their sims.

 

My hope is that they succeed.

[webwing]

And can someone point to any other game with only five limitations of use ! ?

 

Yes, there are others and what really scares me is that it may be a trend.

I use MS Flight Simulator for a long time and from time to time buy some addon aircraft for it. Now a company called Level D (http://www.leveldsim.com) has released a 767 which seems to be the best there is. I was ready to buy it when I found I had only 3 activations, hardware change limitations, etc.

Like I said I bought other add ons for MSFS but none use this kind of system. So far???

Companies making this addons for MSFS are small and come and go. So I get this add on and 6 month from now wont be able to used because they decided to do something else of their lives.

Needless to say I did not buy it.

 

This system penalizes the honest joe. All games can and are cracked. The guy that gets the pirated version will play the game for the rest of his life while you that paid for the game will only have a limited amount of activations! Doesnt make sense.