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1.1 Copy Protection Update


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I'd like to share my knowlegde on how "SF Active Pro" works.

basically, you'll have a product key (like XXXXXXX-XXXXXXX-XXXXXXX-XXXXXXX) and from this key you will be able to get an activation key from SF site.

 

in details:

1) you have purchase a product key and download setup package (product).

2) after installation of product you will start it first time.

2a) (optional) if your system has older drivers then product has, then product will update starforce drivers and will ask you for reboot.

3) if product detect his unactivated state, then it will ask you for activation (manual mode):

3a) it will ask you for a product key, which you bought with product.

3b) it will show you a machine key(PD4K3-BM6YN-UKFA7-5JBEW-3S74K), which is based on your hardware configuration and product key.

3c) you will go to SF site (http://proactive.star-force.com), enter your product key and hardware key and site will show you your activation key (like XXX456XXXX) and show you how many activations left.

4) you will enter activation key when SF will ask you.

next time you run product, it will not ask you for a activation until you significantly change your hardware.

If you choosed a manual mode of activation, then all info you sending to SF site is your product key and machine key, no personal data. SF site uses a SSL secure connection for such transactions, sertified by http://www.thawte.com.

 

SF also has a "automatic activation mode". In this mode it will ask you for product key and then automatically send it to SF site and get an activation key.

 

Product key has some interesting data encrypted. Like maximum number of activation, last possible date for activation (keys like these usually used in betatesting process, when developer want to limit usage of betatesters keys to the date of release).

 

All keys are unique, and all stored in database by developer or publisher, which usually contain a purchase info, so it's quite easy to indentify legal user from illegal one, when one asked for a new product key when he has no activations left.

 

All information above is not releated to ED personally, it's based on my experience of betatesting another company's product.

 

sorry for grammas, these days I'm away from my regular box and spellchecker.

"There are five dangerous faults which may affect a general: recklessness, which leads to destruction; cowardice, which leads to capture; a hasty temper, which can be provoked by insults; a delicacy of honor which is sensitive to shame; over-solicitude for his men, which exposes him to worry and trouble." Sun Tzu

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Obviously TFC/ED needs to protect their product. The use of copy protection is warranted and justified.

 

Obvioulsy some people will object to the method selected and will choose not to purchase the product. So be it.

 

Obviously it is a small minority of people who object. Let them have their say and then move on. The continous crying and complaining after ED has made their careful and considered decision is pointless.

 

Obviously TFC/ED had concerns about Starforce themselves and have delayed the release to address those concerns with Starforce staff members. In otherwords they listened to the community as the ALWAYS have since Su-27 Flanker V1.0.

 

Obviously TFC/ED has to make an official statement regarding this matter and post it on the forums and on the main website. Much of the confusion and hysteria would be avoided if someone in an official capacity (other than volunteers like Wags) should clear the air and put this matter to rest once and for all.

 

I urge my friends at TFC/ED to make an official detailed statement that addresses the Starforce situation.

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I'd like to share my knowlegde on how "SF Active Pro" works.

basically, you'll have a product key (like XXXXXXX-XXXXXXX-XXXXXXX-XXXXXXX) and from this key you will be able to get an activation key from SF site.

 

in details:

1) you have purchase a product key and download setup package (product).

2) after installation of product you will start it first time.

2a) (optional) if your system has older drivers then product has, then product will update starforce drivers and will ask you for reboot.

3) if product detect his unactivated state, then it will ask you for activation (manual mode):

3a) it will ask you for a product key, which you bought with product.

3b) it will show you a machine key(PD4K3-BM6YN-UKFA7-5JBEW-3S74K), which is based on your hardware configuration and product key.

3c) you will go to SF site (http://proactive.star-force.com), enter your product key and hardware key and site will show you your activation key (like XXX456XXXX) and show you how many activations left.

4) you will enter activation key when SF will ask you.

next time you run product, it will not ask you for a activation until you significantly change your hardware.

If you choosed a manual mode of activation, then all info you sending to SF site is your product key and machine key, no personal data. SF site uses a SSL secure connection for such transactions, sertified by http://www.thawte.com.

 

SF also has a "automatic activation mode". In this mode it will ask you for product key and then automatically send it to SF site and get an activation key.

 

Product key has some interesting data encrypted. Like maximum number of activation, last possible date for activation (keys like these usually used in betatesting process, when developer want to limit usage of betatesters keys to the date of release).

 

All keys are unique, and all stored in database by developer or publisher, which usually contain a purchase info, so it's quite easy to indentify legal user from illegal one, when one asked for a new product key when he has no activations left.

 

All information above is not releated to ED personally, it's based on my experience of betatesting another company's product.

 

sorry for grammas, these days I'm away from my regular box and spellchecker.

 

that is perfect...just the kind of protection for our beloved FC. 8)

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Well, I'm very dissapointed to see that Eagle has chosen StarForce. As such, I will likely not be purchasing the add on.

 

I am opposed to any game company requiring registration, and the sending of private information in order to play the game, regardless of whether or not it is identifiable and won't be used except to register the game. I simply don't trust the system.

 

I am opposed to any system that requires me to install driver level code (beyond the required video/sound drivers). StarForce's track record has been spotty on this, and while it may have gotten better, the fact that these drivers hang around in your system even while you aren't running the game bothers the crap out of me.

 

I am opposed to any system that may, in the future, make it impossible for me to keep playing the game (i.e. only 3 registrations, potential for ED to stop supporting registrations, etc.).

 

I believe game makers do have the right to protect their intellectual property, and that whether we like it or not, copy protection will be a standard feature of games. Copy protection, by itself, I do not have a problem with. The extremely intrusive varients, such as StarForce, I do.

 

This is my opinion. I could care less what the flames that are sure to follow this post will say, so flame away, I won't be reading.

 

Thanks for listening.

 

I am dissapointed too...

What a shame.

Count me out.

Sorry guys.

:roll:

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As for the CDs. Halt!

 

Im tired of waiting for the release of FC. If you want CDs let FC come out. This way, we won't be bored for more time...

 

Can you explain me where is the problem with CDs plz ???

 

You wont play 1.1 on april but on june is that right ???

 

Patience is a virtue.

 

ED go for CDs. I'm ready to pay 50 € for it, if I know that I will not have to ask for activation key when I change my hardware.

 

Mate, what I meant by my post was that FC should come out as the download version, and the CD support should be applied AFTER release.

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Wags,

I image my OS so I don't have to keep re-activating with M$.

This way, I can do whatever I want and no matter what be back up and

running in as little as 20min.

 

These images DO NOT include games, just necessary apps and updated windows.

Since starforce is not in the image, what happens when other programs pooch my PC, and i reapply the image?

Make no mistake, I've actually reimaged my PC 3 times in a week testing something and then reinstalled whatever proggy's I wanted afterwards.

 

In this case I do think this will cause problems with ED's implementation of starforce. (example: due to the way Half-Life and steam went, after the 3rd time of reinstalling I no longer install or play it. It's too much of a hassle. And I'm quite sure I'm not the only one).

 

I run three Notes Domains globally, NT administration, and a host of other IT stuff, both from my home and work. So testing is necessary from time to time for myself and I can already foresee this getting in the way.

 

Shit, I even have a image with has no Video drivers, so when ATI puts out a major point release of the catalyst, I'm at a "clean" state.

 

What will ED do for people who are in my position?

 

 

thanks,

 

If you read Wags post you can install as many times as your heart is content. Even if you load up an old image and install, the actual hardware on your system would not have changed. From what I understand from your post you have no problems

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Edited by DayGlow

"It takes a big man to admit he is wrong...I'm not a big man" Chevy Chase, Fletch Lives

 

3700x - 32gb ram - RTX3080 - Windows 10

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Guest ruggbutt

TITOR.

 

+1 :D

 

As far as the "elevated" priveliges, that would be those that are using your CPU on a LAN or network. Starforce reads your serial numbers on certain pieces of hardware, hashes (encrypts) the code and comes up w/a code for your configuration. You input those numbers and activate the product.

 

How many of you have used Punkbuster w/other games? PB does the exact same thing, except it calls the hashed set of numbers a GUID. I understand the concern about additional activations, but it sounds to me that it won't cost anything should you have to contact Starforce to get another five activations. Yeah, it's a pain but I can see ED's point here. Piracy is a biatch and is theft and ultimately hurts the developer. I think that the majority of us would like to see ED remain in business and continue to develop their fine products.

 

Now that we know what Starforce is we can make a decision on whether or not we want these drivers on our system. IMHO IE is a bigger risk to use than Starforce is. I've researched this on my own and I'm convinced that I'm not at any more risk by having them installed. That's just me though, ya'll have to decide for yourselves.

 

Release the damn addon ED!!!!!! :lol:

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sup wags, could you clarify something for me?

 

so what happens when I hit the 3 re-registration limit? game over? maybe it should be reset after a few months that's the way computer upgrades usually goes?

 

I don't mind starforce but with no dedicated server we are back to hosting on the same computer that's playing the game for those of us with home lans

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Matt indicated somewhere that he has discussed with ED making it five registration opportunities, not three.

 

My understanding is that ED is providing users the ability to install FC as many times as they want provided the hardware profile does not change by more than 40%. If the case where the hardware is changed more than 40% the user will have to use up one of five registration opportunities (actually four since one was used initially). That means you can then reinstall it as many times as you want with your new hardware configuration and still have the opportunity to change your hardware again three more times.

 

I would imagine that if you have used up all of your registration opportunities that TFC/ED will provide you with the ability to contact them directly for a new registration key, but I am speculating and await the official word.

 

All of this seem rather reasonable to me. I don't see how it is overly restrictive and I am at a loss why anyone feels restrained under these requirements.

 

Once again I encourage someone in an official capacity with TFC/ED to make a detailed statement here and on the main website that addresses this matter.

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starforce

 

If after the five time register and ive upgraded my computer and then need to register it again if aslong as i got say printed proof or personel proof and then can go online and registrer again proveing i payed then ive no probs buying.

But deepdown i suspect most everyone who uses flight sims fully intend to upgrade in the future first to go for people with highend systems will be a mobo ghange to acomodate cpu advances and id say that is 40% .

I have an xp3500 on a asus a8v deluxe got it 2 month ago with the x800 pro now my ram is only ddr400. so come jan 2006 i will want what is out then. as my ram is slowing me down which is twinx paired 1 gig. i know it is ok for what is out there to play but i like to keep up with the new stuff. so if i say keep the purchase print out and key on a floppy and then after 5 times need to use that then that is ok but if it is a fullstop and you have to buy then that aint protecting its forceing us to pay again yes

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All of this seem rather reasonable to me. I don't see how it is overly restrictive and I am at a loss why anyone feel retrained under these requirement.

 

As it does for me! I dont see the reason why so many people are not going to buy the add-on because of SF... :shock:

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Dmut or Wags,

 

Could you please comment on Contract Survivability? If ED or SF closes the doors a month from now, how are the customers protected?

 

Also, where is SF registered as a company and legally what district or State is Presiding? Or Country if it's not the USA.

 

If ED and SF have a contract dispute, could SF prevent users from using the software in future?

 

And could you please clarify the Manual Mode statement regarding Personal Information above? What constitutes Personal information and is my Hardware configuration not considered Personal Information?

 

Also, based on what is stated above, I would expect that SF will no longer be installing drivers disabling the use of ISO images on a local machine?

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TITOR.

 

. I understand the concern about additional activations, but it sounds to me that it won't cost anything should you have to contact Starforce to get another five activations.

 

Release the damn addon ED!!!!!! :lol:

 

If that is how it works then i think that is fine as long as when ive upgraded and can contact to get the addon runing i dont have anyprobs but if i upgrade and they aint there or they dont keep records then it is useless what about people like kids who dont have acsess to internet and upgrade like bedroom pc dad puts better cpu in and card and his sim is screwed . or the person who falls on bad times and the internet goes. a cd wood be best for all . for me though if i can go online prove i payed explain i upgraded then then they activate i will buy

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Matt indicated somewhere that he has discussed with ED making it five registration opportunities, not three.

 

My understanding is that ED is providing users the ability to install FC as many times as they want provided the hardware profile does not change by more than 40%. If the case where the hardware is changed more than 40% the user will have to use up one of five registration opportunities (actually four since one was used initially). That means you can then reinstall it as many times as you want with your new hardware configuration and still have the opportunity to change your hardware again three more times.

 

I would imagine that if you have used up all of your registration opportunities that TFC/ED will provide you with the ability to contact them directly for a new registration key, but I am speculating and await the official word.

 

All of this seem rather reasonable to me. I don't see how it is overly restrictive and I am at a loss why anyone feels restrained under these requirements.

 

Once again I encourage someone in an official capacity with TFC/ED to make a detailed statement here and on the main website that addresses this matter.

 

fair enough but we should know what happens when the limit is reached. As long as there is a way to not get shut out I'm fine, proof of purchase whatever.

 

And I know ED didn't do starforce but wouldn't it be better if the activation limit was limited to a certain period in time? e.g. 2 automatic activation per month, otherwise you get locked out and have to email or call explaining why? flexible for those of us who are buying but preventing mass piracy at the same time.

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Guest ruggbutt

I think that most of the people here are figuring on the future regarding LOMAC, FC and 1.2. I see myself flying in ED's world in 3 years. I think the main concern is that we all think this sim has lots of replayability. That's what the concern regarding Starforce is.

 

It may seem like a lot of complaining, but it's also a compliment as well.

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Hi all.

 

EDITED:

Release the damn addon ED!!!!!! :lol:

 

+1 :lol:

I trust ED 100% with this decision. That's all I have to say about that!!!

C'mon C'mon C'mon. You can release it anytime now...OOPS wait, I mean I'm being patient. :P -KILSEK

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It was really not a very wise decision from ED, to say the least.

1. 99% of LOMAC fans are eager to show their support and therefore would buy the game even if it was not protected at all. This kind of aggressive copy-protection is completely unnecessary.

2. It simply violates my consumer rights as well. If I buy a game and want to use it on my own single machine, nobody will tell me how frequently I am allowed to upgrade my rig. If this kind of "protection" is legal, shame on those who make laws.

 

Anyway, I think ED will only lose money on this. And believe me, when the game comes out, it will be cracked in less than a month.

 

I am really sorry.

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It was really not a very wise decision from ED, to say the least.

1. 99% of LOMAC fans are eager to show their support and therefore would buy the game even if it was not protected at all. This kind of aggressive copy-protection is completely unnecessary.

2. It simply violates my consumer rights as well. If I buy a game and want to use it on my own single machine, nobody will tell me how frequently I am allowed to upgrade my rig. If this kind of "protection" is legal, shame on those who make laws.

 

Anyway, I think ED will only lose money on this. And believe me, when the game comes out, it will be cracked in less than a month.

 

I am really sorry.

 

Sorry, but software is pirated and the need to protect it is a sad fact.

 

It does not violate your "rights". Have you read any of the EULAs that come with the software you purchase? Technically you don't "buy" software, you license it. Nobody is telling you how many times you can update your rig, they are telling you that you have to make provisions regarding the software you have licensed should you change hardware.

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It was really not a very wise decision from ED, to say the least.

1. 99% of LOMAC fans are eager to show their support and therefore would buy the game even if it was not protected at all. This kind of aggressive copy-protection is completely unnecessary.

 

Just plain untrue. Heard any of the horror stories about Flanker 2.5?

 

Seen how many people are openly wandering around with pirate copies of Lomac?

 

 

2. It simply violates my consumer rights as well. If I buy a game and want to use it on my own single machine, nobody will tell me how frequently I am allowed to upgrade my rig. If this kind of "protection" is legal, shame on those who make laws.

 

See Stormin's post. I don't know exactly what you imagine your consumer rights are . . . . but there are faint overtones of the old "freedom of speech" complaints from the forums here.

 

 

Anyway, I think ED will only lose money on this. And believe me, when the game comes out, it will be cracked in less than a month.

 

I am really sorry.

 

ED will not lose money on the downloads, primarily because Flaming Cliffs is being distributed as hard copy (full boxed version) in Russia by 1C, who paid for the development. Any additional revenue from the downloads is to be considered a bonus.

 

 

Whether it will be cracked . . . . well, we'll wait and see.

 

However, cracking it would of course require that enough people would want to pirate it - according to you, 99% of the Lomac community are going to buy anyway, right?

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