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eurofighter-fires-amraam-in-passive-radar-mode


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Just a guess, but from my reading of the article it would seem to be that the plane that fired the missile is not actively sending radar beams out, but is able to receive the echoes of radar fired by the other aircraft. With information from the other aircraft over datalink it is then able to guide the missile without compromising it's on EMCON.

 

Though if one deletes the kneejerk reaction to the word "passive" and understands it as "off", which seems to fit the text of the article better, it's even more impressive. It would then have received information gathered by the other aircraft's radar over datalink and then execute a successful launch based solely on datalink information.

 

Which one, if any, of those that is the actual fact is something that the proper fighter jockeys around here will have to enlighten us on. :P

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It would then have received information gathered by the other aircraft's radar over datalink and then execute a successful launch based solely on datalink information.

 

This is how I understood it but I didn't knew it was something new.

I thought that missile shot through datalink information had been around for some time.

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To my knowledge, what was available thriough link-16 upto now was for SA:

 

thanks to the datalinked info from other aircraft, hostile contacts are displayed on the HSD even when they are not detected by your own radar, e.g. targets that slip outside the radar cone.

 

But then, you had to lock them up and direct your radar energy towards them to be able to launch and guide a missile. In this trial, this seems no longer needed.

 

Whether you still need to catch radar echoes from friendly aircraft or whether itis done completely by feeding datalinked info to the missile through midcourse updates is not clear to me.

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I think that it has been available on eurofighter for a long time (in software) but only now has it been tested (in hardware :D).

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Whether you still need to catch radar echoes from friendly aircraft or whether itis done completely by feeding datalinked info to the missile through midcourse updates is not clear to me.

 

That's what interests me about this.. Will we see AA missiles with 'loiter' capability, or possibly a flight of four UAV's running BARCAP as gunbus for a single fighter with a high-power radar?

 

As far as datalink with LO aircraft goes (i'm trying not to mention the obvious one), I read recently online [no source] that the problem isn't 'not being able to receive datalink' (for Situational Awareness), but is actually 'transmitting data back to the original sender.'

 

Just some food for thought :)


Edited by CE_Mikemonster
Erm, clarity. But the last sentence is still a car crash, sorry :(

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The F-22 is receiving an upgrade to permit it to launch weapons based on ESM sensors alone.

 

However, 'passive' can mean a number of things:

 

Home on ESM source

Home on datalink target

 

Typically the launching aircraft had to generate its own missile data link, but this may no longer be necessary - even if it is, there might be other fuzed sensor means of doing it, but it is the radar that typically generates that signal (ie. the radar is not fully off, but its duty isn't to be scanning for threats, and the datalink doesn't need anywhere near the power you need for A2A detection etc)

 

Just assumptions on my part.

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That's what interests me about this.. Will we see AA missiles with 'loiter' capability, or possibly a flight of four UAV's running BARCAP as gunbus for a single fighter with a high-power radar?

 

Not any time soon. ;)

 

 

 

As far as datalink with LO aircraft goes (i'm trying not to mention the obvious one), I read recently online [no source] that the problem is not 'not being able to receive datalink' (for Situational Awareness), but is actually 'transmitting data back to the original sender.'

 

Just some food for thought :)

 

The problem is that Link-16 isn't stealthy ... therefore F-22's for example tended to run in receive only mode, until things start getting equipped with Link-22.

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F-22 v Su-35, GO! ;)

 

Just kidding. These are technologies that non-stealth aircraft will also probably use to help with increasing their own SA, while decreasing the opponent's SA.

 

While conventional aircraft can't 'hide', you can still have drones create chaff corridors, TALDs litter radar screens, and so on and so forth. It's just ... messier :D

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Your dreaming there GG, Link 22 is a noisy low bandwidth HF datalink. Which is dying a slow death btw.

 

Not any time soon. ;)

 

 

 

 

 

The problem is that Link-16 isn't stealthy ... therefore F-22's for example tended to run in receive only mode, until things start getting equipped with Link-22.

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To my knowledge, what was available thriough link-16 upto now was for SA:

 

thanks to the datalinked info from other aircraft, hostile contacts are displayed on the HSD even when they are not detected by your own radar, e.g. targets that slip outside the radar cone.

 

But then, you had to lock them up and direct your radar energy towards them to be able to launch and guide a missile. In this trial, this seems no longer needed.

 

Whether you still need to catch radar echoes from friendly aircraft or whether itis done completely by feeding datalinked info to the missile through midcourse updates is not clear to me.

 

The missiles are guided 100% via mid course updates from the launching aircraft. The launch aircraft does not need to emit anything from the radar. This be done with targets provided by ANY link 16 equipped platform, so not only Typhoons, F-22, F-35 (when it's up and running) and AWACS aircraft can also send target data.

 

The same thing can be done using the aircrafts ESM and/or IRST systems with the launch aircraft detecting the target passively and then launching and guiding an AMRAAM (or BVRAAM when we get them) to the target.

 

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The missiles are guided 100% via mid course updates from the launching aircraft. The launch aircraft does not need to emit anything from the radar. This be done with targets provided by ANY link 16 equipped platform

 

Hm, but that still can mean two different things.

 

1) If done by link-16 the platform providing the target data has to basically track both the launching as well as the target aircraft. Otherwise it cannot provide the correct data so that the launching aircraft can calculate mid-course updates.

 

2) If done by passively picking up the radar signal of the "active" platform it hasn't much or even anything to do with link-16 and could be done by non-link-16 platforms too.

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The datalink is normally generated onboard the laughing aircraft - and in the case of M-Link (AIM-120 up to C version) it IS emitted from the radar antenna.

 

It is NOT link-16. I don't know how the AIM-120D DL works - it might be the same, just 2-way, or it might be entirely new.

 

The datalink 'listens in' on a certain channel programmed onboard the aircraft and passed down to the missile. Should another aircraft emit on the same channel, that missile might pick up its datalink instead.

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Let's first see if we get the basics right, since some things still ecape me. If I'm right, in an AIM-120C:

 

- the launching aircrafts radar tracks a target;

- it feeds data into the Amraam's WGU-16/B inertial autopilot;

- missile is launched

- through a one-way datalink position updated of the tracked aircraft are

fed into the missile's intertial autopilot (the so-called mid-course updates)

- once in range, the amraam activates its onboard radar, locks onto the

target and becomes then a fire-and-forget weapon

 

1/ I can imagine that the necessary guidance info to feed into the intertial autopilot can be computed from info received in the launching aircraft through link-16 from another aircraft in the formation? But what does that mean?

 

a/ Another aircraft has its radar active tracking a foe, it sends tracking info into the systems of the launch aircraft through link-16, and this in turn is fed into the missile's autopilot, which enables a launch authorisation.

 

OR

 

b/ Another aircraft has its radar active tracking a foe, it sends tracking info into the systems of the launch aircraft through link-16, and the launching aircraft own radar is cued on the data-linked target, after which a conventional lock & launch takes place.

 

OR

 

c (as it seems in the Eurofighter story)/ Another aircraft has its radar active tracking a foe outside the tracking envelope of the to-be-launch aircraft, it sends tracking info into the systems of the launch aircraft through link-16 and this in turn is fed into the missile's autopilot, which enables a launch authorisation; maybe the missile is just maddoged, and then gets a midcourse update?

 

2/ In any scenario, I guess the only thing a two-way datalink brings to the table is that fire control software can add missile position data into the course calculation equation?

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You are most accurate with option a.

 

If you look at the attack display in a Typhoon targets from your own radar, IRST, DASS and from the sensors of other platforms via MIDS (link-16) are all displayed together.

 

The pilot can target anything he can see regardless of where the data on the target has originated. Even with your own sensors switched off you can still happily engage anything on the attack display as if if was detected by your own sensors.

 

Firing on a target provided by MIDS is just like firing on a target detected by your own sensors, you'd lock it up and fire. The weapon would be guided to the target via mid course updates from your aircraft, even if you turn away from the target.

 

It's exactly these systems and capabilities that make the Typhoon, Raptor, JSF & others so lethal.

 

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