Printed Black Shark Manual Purchase, North America

[Dusty Rhodes]

Absotively Posolutely.

[A6er]

US Printed Manual

 

Yes ,I would pop for the printed manual. It has to be cheaper than Kinkos.

[Mxyzpylk]

Yes.

[blaster454]

I am relatively certain that the manual will assume that the cockpit is in Russian, just like the current PDF version does.

 

I voted that I would buy it. If AlphaOneSix is correct that the cockpit images and explanatory text is identical to the current soft manual, then I would have to seriously consider what additional content is available.

 

Realism objections aside (since not all of us are concerned with strict realism), the current manual's cockpit images and text explanations are sometimes confusing and make it much harder to compare to the cockpit you are using if flying with the English options. Contrary to what some may think, this is not nit-picking. I feel it's a valid issue.

 

Is it a deal breaker...not at all. The sim is fantastic and fun to fly & fight. But there would have to be something to offset the $50US price for me...checklists, emergency procedures, expanded weapons use data, .... If the printed manual is nothing more than a rehash of the current soft manual, then I would probably not purchase it.

[LIONPRIDE]

anyone who answers no is soft core

 

 

.

 

 

:joystick: .... YEEeeeahhh ! ... Get Some !

 

 

.

[AlphaOneSix]

If the printed manual is nothing more than a rehash of the current soft manual, then I would probably not purchase it.

 

The current flight manual is 385 pages and has 9 chapters.

 

The extended manual that will be available for purchase has around 554 pages and 15 chapters.

 

And it does include the things you mentioned.

[jormar23]

I need that manual. I bought the game a couple of months ago, just waiting for the manual to come out. I have yet to really even play the game yet. I would pay 50.00 for it

[CyBerkut]

I'd be a lot more inclined to buy it if the screenshots had the english language cockpit labels, as *for*me* that would be a significant improvement over the existing .pdf manual that we already have. The added material will certainly be nice, but is considerably less compelling to me if I have to do the mental/visual gymnastics of matching up cyrillic text pictures with the english text cockpit labels. Having reached an age where I'm wearing trifocals, having to make additional looks back and forth (with the attendant changes in focal length) becomes a real consideration on purchasing decisions.

[Sunjah]

No, I wouldn't. I already spent at least $40 printing it and binding it, so that makes the total so far about $100 for this game. I think that is already a tremendous amount for 1 game.

 

I wish they (the industry) would include something like that as part of the game. I don't know if the boxed version will have it, but I think it should. A printed manual should not be an added accessory, but a standard inclusion in any game (especially a simulation).

[GGTharos]

Some people seem to be of the opinion that they can do without the printed manual, and prefer to buy the game without it since it lowers the price.

 

Additionally, shelf space is expensive - unless you're a huge publisher that can afford it, big boxes are a thing of the past.

Edited March 16, 2009 by GGTharos

[Slayer]

I would like something along the lines of the Falon4.0 manual

[Sunjah]

...big boxes are a thing of the past.

 

That opinion is pretty much my point exactly. A manual shouldn't be an addition to the game, it should be part of the game. I think most people will say that they'd rather have a manual they can read while trying to learn the sim than one they have to pause/close/alt+tab out of in order to then read it on their computer screen (plus, if you are one who like to read it, say, on the couch, or while taking a relaxing bath, the *.pdf makes that impossible unless you spend 40-50 bucks printing it...so to have a complete game you have to double the price).

 

I paraphrase Sid Meier in saying, "A computer game should come with a printed manual, it is part of the experience!"

[GGTharos]

If the manual was included, it would double the price anyway. You're not getting the printed manual for free, period.

 

And again, big boxes are a thing of the past - there are very real, financial reasons for it that prevent your wish from coming true.

[ZaltysZ]

I am for paper version only for books which can be read sequentially. In any other case, electronic variant is superior. Even if the printed manual was included with game, I still would be using pdf version. Search function saves time and electronic documents save forests. :smartass:

[Sunjah]

If the manual was included, it would double the price anyway. You're not getting the printed manual for free, period.

 

And again, big boxes are a thing of the past - there are very real, financial reasons for it that prevent your wish from coming true.

 

Last comment I will make, and please don't feel I am being argumentative, I just think it is a rotten point right now.

 

I cannot say I had computers back to the absolute original, the first one I had myself was the Commodore Amiga in 1989(though I did use a friend's IBM in '86-87). That would make it twenty years ago that I started "really" using computer games. This whole thing with slapping a *.pdf file is like telling a new car buyer, "Oh yeah, you have to get the tires yourself, and there is no oil in it. Sorry, times are tight you know."

 

The thing that frustrates me most is that I subscribe to computer gaming magazines. For close to 10 years there has been a constant theme of "PC Games a dying trend?" which the magazine always counters and says, "No way!" (they do like subscribers, mind you). From my standpoint, the PC gaming industry has done more to close it off from the people who really care about it than any other source. MMORPSGRE, no manual, release and ignore to the PC crowd, if they even release PC at all.

 

In the stores that are strictly for games (Gamestop, EB Games, etc.), the computer shelf used to cover the front half of the store on one side, and video games on the other. Now most don't carry them, and if they do it is back in the farthest corner of the store. I've often only been able to get titles that I preordered, as they tell me, "No, we don't bother stocking those." Comp USA (isn't that a computer store) now feels like a nintendo add when you walk in.

 

So we have the mainstream side basically already seeming to be done with the PC, and then we have companies taking the attitude of, "Hey, we gave you a *.pdf, you should be happy." My point is, all they are doing is further alienating an all ready quite alienated line of products. Games for Windows is great, they should have done it 8-10 years ago to really have an effect.

 

Every so often I read something, such as on some forum about 5 or 6 years ago with a guy venting about how sad it is that he spends $2,000-3,000 for a gaming rig, and yet companies ignore, defer or worst of all, give a console port (with MAJOR missing features...Tiger Woods anyone?) to the PC gaming community. Todd Howard saying that most of their games will stay as non-multi, single-player experiences (thank heavens for that one!). I think I am one of the only ones thinking these things, and then I see quotes like these that confirm that there are educated PC gamers who are quite frustrated at what used to be such a fun source of entertainment.

 

I feel the PC game industry is shooting itself in the foot on this manual thing. I thought I was isolated on thinking this, but when I first started reading these forums I was surprised (but appreciative) of how many people would say, "I don't want a *.pdf, I want a readable copy that I can read in the yard, at the dinner table, in the tub (the tub one was an actual quote from a guy, and when I read it I just said, "I'm with you brother").

 

Instead of pleading poverty and not including what is, fully in my opinion PART of the game (thanks for the confimation, Sid!), companies continue to further alienate those who are so dedicated that they do spend thousands of dollars on "gaming-rigs."

 

My wish (if I had one) is that the PC gaming industry would support its fanbase (not alienate it). People like Sid Meier and Todd Howard of Bethesda Software seem to be doing just fine by having that approach. In a sim like this, a printed manual is needed for the steep learning curve. I spent at least $40 printing it (probably more along $75, as I had to have it bound and I ended up using up color and black ink cartridges that cost $15 and 25 dollars, and several of the color prints looked so bad I ended up having to reprint a lot in black & white...probably my fault, but still, the money was spent).

 

This approach has gotten, well, one true sim released in the last 4-5 years (Lock-on being the other latest, I think it was 2004 or so).

 

I love PC gaming. I hate MMORPSRPSDfjow;erjl;kkjad;lfsjas;dlfj...horrid, and did more to kill PC games than anything, but not including game basics is kind of the nails going in many coffins.

 

I read that the CEO of EA said he will never authorize a single-player game again, it must have some MMOEORPFOPEL bologna. When I read the article about 2 months ago, I closed it and said a prayer for Todd Howard's well-being. Last thing I remembered, strategy guides were the ones you buy extra to have extra help. A readable manual, well, that is part of the game. One of the most frustrating things I have had to do in recent gaming history is pause Black Shark, minimize it, open the *.pdf to the right spot, read, go back to BS, pause it, minimize, read, etc.

 

It got old incredibly quickly.

Edited March 18, 2009 by Sunjah

[Giant2111]

Last comment I will make, and please don't feel I am being argumentative, I just think it is a rotten point right now.

 

I cannot say I had computers back to the absolute original, the first one I had myself was the Commodore Amiga in 1989(though I did use a friend's IBM in '86-87). That would make it twenty years ago that I started "really" using computer games. This whole thing with slapping a *.pdf file is like telling a new car buyer, "Oh yeah, you have to get the tires yourself, and there is no oil in it. Sorry, times are tight you know."

 

The thing that frustrates me most is that I subscribe to computer gaming magazines. For close to 10 years there has been a constant theme of "PC Games a dying trend?" which the magazine always counters and says, "No way!" (they do like subscribers, mind you). From my standpoint, the PC gaming industry has done more to close it off from the people who really care about it than any other source. MMORPSGRE, no manual, release and ignore to the PC crowd, if they even release PC at all.

 

In the stores that are strictly for games (Gamestop, EB Games, etc.), the computer shelf used to cover the front half of the store on one side, and video games on the other. Now most don't carry them, and if they do it is back in the farthest corner of the store. I've often only been able to get titles that I preordered, as they tell me, "No, we don't bother stocking those." Comp USA (isn't that a computer store) now feels like a nintendo add when you walk in.

 

So we have the mainstream side basically already seeming to be done with the PC, and then we have companies taking the attitude of, "Hey, we gave you a *.pdf, you should be happy." My point is, all they are doing is further alienating an all ready quite alienated line of products. Games for Windows is great, they should have done it 8-10 years ago to really have an effect.

 

Every so often I read something, such as on some forum about 5 or 6 years ago with a guy venting about how sad it is that he spends $2,000-3,000 for a gaming rig, and yet companies ignore, defer or worst of all, give a console port (with MAJOR missing features...Tiger Woods anyone?) to the PC gaming community. Todd Howard saying that most of their games will stay as non-multi, single-player experiences (thank heavens for that one!). I think I am one of the only ones thinking these things, and then I see quotes like these that confirm that there are educated PC gamers who are quite frustrated at what used to be such a fun source of entertainment.

 

I feel the PC game industry is shooting itself in the foot on this manual thing. I thought I was isolated on thinking this, but when I first started reading these forums I was surprised (but appreciative) of how many people would say, "I don't want a *.pdf, I want a readable copy that I can read in the yard, at the dinner table, in the tub (the tub one was an actual quote from a guy, and when I read it I just said, "I'm with you brother").

 

Instead of pleading poverty and not including what is, fully in my opinion PART of the game (thanks for the confimation, Sid!), companies continue to further alienate those who are so dedicated that they do spend thousands of dollars on "gaming-rigs."

 

My wish (if I had one) is that the PC gaming industry would support its fanbase (not alienate it). People like Sid Meier and Todd Howard of Bethesda Software seem to be doing just fine by having that approach. In a sim like this, a printed manual is needed for the steep learning curve. I spent at least $40 printing it (probably more along $75, as I had to have it bound and I ended up using up color and black ink cartridges that cost $15 and 25 dollars, and several of the color prints looked so bad I ended up having to reprint a lot in black & white...probably my fault, but still, the money was spent).

 

This approach has gotten, well, one true sim released in the last 4-5 years (Lock-on being the other latest, I think it was 2004 or so).

 

I love PC gaming. I hate MMORPSRPSDfjow;erjl;kkjad;lfsjas;dlfj...horrid, and did more to kill PC games than anything, but not including game basics is kind of the nails going in many coffins.

 

I read that the CEO of EA said he will never authorize a single-player game again, it must have some MMOEORPFOPEL bologna. When I read the article about 2 months ago, I closed it and said a prayer for Todd Howard's well-being. Last thing I remembered, strategy guides were the ones you buy extra to have extra help. A readable manual, well, that is part of the game. One of the most frustrating things I have had to do in recent gaming history is pause Black Shark, minimize it, open the *.pdf to the right spot, read, go back to BS, pause it, minimize, read, etc.

 

It got old incredibly quickly.

 

/signed to the deepest of my heart! Especially the part of reading manuals in the tub. There were times when I was in there with Pete Bonani (F4.0) more often, than with my wife. I still use it as a reference for AF.

It is really immersive for me to read the man.

 

Regards

[uhoh7]

I'll bite the bullet.

[Cap_Z]

I'm in.:thumbup: I would prefer a ring bound first or spiral bound second.

[Smoky]

Prob mentioned already, but my investment was way less than $50:

 

1. Couple packs of glossy paper: $20

2. 2 pairs of b&w/c print cartridges: $10

3. Binding materials (splitting the manual into several books): $5

4. Being able to print and bind the PDF yourself: PRICELESS!!!

 

:D

[RedTiger]

Yep, especially if its the extended directors cut with more information! :D

[Sharkster64]

Umm no. The North American version permits both Russian and English cockpits. It is NOT English only. It is just an option like any other option. While some (or most) people may choose to set the cockpit to English to make things easier for them, this does not make it the "right" way to play the sim (personally, I view it as a cheat, much like unlimited ammo, invulnerability or easy avionics). If the North American version did not include an option for Russian cockpits, then I might agree with you. But it does include the option. Thus, it would be perfectly reasonable for the North American version to have an English manual that includes knobs/buttons in Russian, just like in the current PDF manual that comes with the North American version (and just like exists in the real helicopter).

 

Please feel free to disagree, but do not pretend that your point of view is the only correct one.

 

First off I want to point out that yes you are entitled to your opinion and that your vote should be taken into account on whether or not the manual should be Russian or English.

 

There is one point I would like to make though. If the Kamov company were to sell a batch of Ka-50 Black Sharks to a foreign country, do you not think that they would sell the aircraft with the cockpit translated to that countrys native language. And if they didn't, how easy would it to be for that foreign country to translate the cockpit themselves?

 

Lets just say for example Canada bought a batch of Ka-50s from the Kamov company. Do you think that they would spend the extra money to train their pilots to be able to read in russian, or do you think they would have it in the contract to have the cockpit translated to english? And i'm sure Kamov would be more than willing to translate the cockpits to be read in english to make a sale.

 

Not everyone plays this sim as a Russian. I myself have created plenty of Canadian skins to use with Canada on the game. I know that if Canada were to buy these helicopters that our pilots can be rest assured that they don't have to learn a new language. :book:

 

Therefore your statement about "the cockpit being translated to english is cheating", has absolutely no basis in this topic. The topic is about whether or not we would buy the manual in North America or not. From my understanding, you will get your wish anyways, but having english translations is certainly not cheating.

 

Just a note, I meant no disrespect, I'm just voicing my opinion.;)

[2GvSAP_Dart]

If I were a Ka-50 pilot, I'd be Russian and able to read the cockpit writing and understand everything said in Russian on the radio.

 

So IMHO it's entirely unrealistic to have the cockpit in any other language but English, which I read, and the voices in English, which I speak.

 

They comprehend what the text reads - why shouldn't I?

 

To force unreadable text and incomprenhesable speech on a player is as unrealistic as forcing it onto the real pilots. There's the search for "literal realism" and then there's the search for "realistic simulation."

 

And yeah, I'll get the manual.

[AlphaOneSix]

If I were a Ka-50 pilot, I'd be Russian and able to read the cockpit writing and understand everything said in Russian on the radio.

 

I see your point and agree completely, but the prior poster mentioning the thing about export versions is correct. If you were a Canadian pilot, and Canada bought Ka-50's, you can bet that the cockpit would be in English.

 

I work for a company that flies among other things) several Mi-8/17 helicopters. All of them have English cockpits (well, mostly, some things are still in RUssian, but only about 10%), and came with English documentation.

[wombat778]

Therefore your statement about "the cockpit being translated to english is cheating", has absolutely no basis in this topic. The topic is about whether or not we would buy the manual in North America or not. From my understanding, you will get your wish anyways, but having english translations is certainly not cheating.

 

Of course it has a basis in the topic. The topic is about whether we will buy the manual in North America. Any North American manual will have to depict either a) an English cockpit or b) a Russian cockpit. Thus, we are discussing reasons why ED should choose one or the other. Some people, myself included, believe that using the English cockpit is a cheat. Others do not believe that and have other reasons why they prefer the English cockpit. For me, if the cockpit is in English in the printed manual, I will probably not buy it. Since I fly the sim using the Russian cockpit, it would be more efficient for me to pay for printing the PDF manual. Thus, for me at least, discussion of which cockpit the manual should depict is inherent to the topic of whether to buy the printed manual.

 

With respect to your other point, sure, if Kamov exported the KA-50 to an English speaking country it would have an English cockpit. But this is not a simulator of an export version. The campaigns are not about a war involving English speaking countries using KA-50s. We would also have no reason to believe that any English translated cockpit Kamov does would match the English translation done by ED. In my opinion, if and only if A) Kamov does in fact produce an export version of the KA-50 with an English cockpit, B) detailed and reliable information is made available to ED illustrating exactly how that translation was done, and C) ED uses that information and makes a simulator of such export version of the KA-50, then I will happily use that version. Until then, IMHO, using the English cockpit is simulating an aircraft that does not exist, which for me at least, entirely kills the reason for flying a simulation in the first place.

 

And to 2GvSAP_Dart, I do in fact play with Russian radio enabled but using English subtitles (achieved by copying the audio files from the Russian version). For me at least, this provides the best simulation/immersion, but obviously your opinion may vary.

[JG14_Smil]

no, I would have when I first bought the sim, but it is after the fact now. The two best MP servers don't even run them anymore and so the experience has changed.

Edited March 19, 2009 by JG14_Smil