No force feedback and no collective with Saitek Cyborg Evo Force

[sohei]

Hi All

 

I'm trying to set up my new Saitek Cyborg Evo Force joystick on DCS BS. I know that the throttle slider works, but I'm darned if I can assign it to the collective control. I've gone to Options-Controls-Axis Commands, and tried all of the slider options there, but none of them seem to work. Could it be one of the many Z,Y or X axis options? Much confused by this one, as my previous Logitech Force 3D worked straight away.

 

Secondly, I'm not getting any force feedback during the game. Not sure what to expect here, as I've not had a force feedback joystick before. Is there something I need to configure?

 

Many thanks in advance.

 

Sohei

 

EDIT

 

In 'Game' mode, the collective control works fine, but as soon as I go to 'Simulation' it stops!

 

EDIT #2

 

I've now tried this in both Win Vista x32 and Win XP x32, so I'm satisfied it's not an OS issue (I read about FF problems in Vista).

 

Any help at all would be much appreciated.

Edited February 26, 2009 by sohei

[Sentonal]

Ditto ON that

 

Ill let you know if I figure it out as Im having the same issue. Just got this stick today, and built the new pc yesterday (Vista 64) (first new PC in 6 YEARS and the last one was a DELL my wife made me buy).

[EtherealN]

My Saitek Cyborg Evo Force runs the collective through JOY Z in the Flight Control Collective.

 

On the force feedback, there is an issue with this stick in BS with a bunch of threads out there on it. I contented myself with just disabling it, but others have done workarounds like removing the centering spring and tweaking the settings for the Force Feedback in windows. A search should find you a score of threads on the subject. My understanding of the underlying cause is that BS feedback doesn't get enough authority to overcome the centering of the stick.

 

It's not that big of a disaster though, since the main function of Force Feedback here is to simulate the way a helicopter trims - which it does through resetting some springs connected to the stick to make it "center" in a different position, thereby allowing the helicopter to maintain a given attitude even if the pilot has to release the stick. (And of course decreases pilot fatigue from having to maintain pressure on the stick to keep attitude stable.) Without force feedback the game simulates this through allowing you some time to centre the stick after releasing the trim button - something that it will be wanting to do anyhow thanks to the centering spring.

[Sentonal]

no actually its a problem with the stick. I cant even get the Force Feedback to work in the control panel.

Interestingly enough, the company that writes the driver is looking for a coder.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/sof/1041969181.html

[EtherealN]

If you have a Saitek Cyborg Evo Force and cannot get Force Feedback operational in the control panel, then it's either a faulty stick, a faulty driver installation, or something else faulty in your windows installation. As I mentioned I have one of them and it works perfectly with full Force Feedback in pretty much every game I have tried it with (and that is quite a few) and I have operated the tuning and testing accessible through the control panel.

 

Just like you, I also run it on a Vista64 (Home Premium), so it's not that either. Are you certain that you installed the specific 64-bit drivers and not the standard 32-bit drivers?

[Sentonal]

I tested the unit in hour 2 on an XP Box. The Vista install was clean (finished the install last night at 10:30) DCS was running at 11:15 :-) cause I was DIEING to see it on the 4870 (I was not dissapointed)

 

In actuality, When I downloaded the drivers from Saitek (Yesterday at work) their website sent the ones from 5/1/2007. So when I did what I did, I now have the wonderful version dated 4/4/2008. (I've been a computer programmer and tech for 18 years now and this wasnt my first rodeo with saitek drivers either) It was however my longest rodeo.

 

So on with the FUN!

OK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Heres WHAT I DID!!!!!!

5 hours into this!!!!

 

With the Stick UNPLUGGED!!!!

 

1 uninstalled the SST Software

2. Used Device manager to remove the driver (put a check in Delete the driver)

3. Opened regedit and in HKCU\System\CurrentControlSet\MediaProperties\JoyStick\OEM I removed any Key that started with VID_06A

4. I then deleted c:\windows\temp\Saitek\

5. Then Bounced the box (reboot).

6. Plugged in the controller.

7. Used the "Update Driver" Button and searched automaticly for the driver software.

 

Unit is now working in control panel!!!!

[Sentonal]

To Add...

 

Before plugging in the controller

 

Open Device Manger:

After you plug your controller in the list will update:

 

When you see "HID Compliant Game Contoller" right click on it and choose

Update Driver software.

Then Search Automaticly for the software.

 

Do this for All your Saitek Controllers.

THEN install the SST Software and you should be in the Green.

 

I did this procedure with the

Cyborg EVO Force

X52

Pro Flight Yoke

Pro Flight Pedals

 

And all are functioning Perfectly now. (and yes my desk is a bit cluttered)

[EtherealN]

Wait, you have an X52 yet still bought a Cyborg recently? O.o

[sohei]

Wow, thanks for all the helpful suggestions guys and girls! There seems to be a variety of issues so far, but in my case the stick is definitely functioning fine outside of BS. I can actually use it in game, as it gets no FF at all, and so functions as a normal joystick with the centering spring in use. I can trim and release the joystick and it works ok, so the game is just not identifying it as FF. I'm going to try messing about with drivers in the meantime, but I hope a patch from the devs will sort this out.

EtherealN, I'll try your collective setting and see what happens.

 

Sohei out.

[sohei]

UPDATE

 

Well, I tried using Joy_Z as the collective control, with odd results. When I used the axis callibration option under Options-Controls-Axis assignment, the control was recognised and moved just fine. In the game however, it still didn't work. Strange, but I'll keep tinkering and see what I can do.

 

I also ran update for the drivers through the Device Manager, to no effect, sadly. This may seem like a dumb question, but should I be using the SST software to set the stick up?

[USSR_Rik]

In 'Game' mode, the collective control works fine, but as soon as I go to 'Simulation' it stops!

Did you assign collective both "game" and "simulator" modes? Please attach appropriate screenshots of axis commands.

[sohei]

I'm at work now ( :( ) so I'll have to do that later. Here's what I've done so far.

 

1. Tried going through all the slider axis assignment options and looking for movement in the axis calibration window. No effect.

2. Unassigning all axes from the collective option. No effect.

3. Assigning Joy_z to the collective. This gave a response in the callibration window, but none in game.

All of the above steps were done in sim mode. In game mode, it seems to work regardless of what I assign, even if I leave it blank!I'll confirm this when I get home this evening.

 

I also downloaded the LOMAC demo, and found that the throttle works fine straight away.

 

Still loving the game, btw :)

 

Any suggestions about the complete lack of FF?

[Sentonal]

Wait, you have an X52 yet still bought a Cyborg recently? O.o

 

 

Yes, I wanted force feedback in some games like BS and IL-2 and still use the collective buttons and sliders on the x52 for BS.

 

It may also be that I have a controller problem as I also have a p2600 game pad and a graphire tablet and the defacto must have Track-IR. :joystick:

[EtherealN]

The lack of force feedback with this stick does have a bunch of suggestions, most of which include physically modifying the stick. A search on the forum should spawn some results.

[sohei]

Well, I finally sorted out the throttle problem with help from a few people here. I overlooked checking the 'use these settings for all missions' box in Options-Gameplay. Whoops, silly me. At least it's sorted though.

For any Saitek Cyborg Evo Force users, it's Joy_z (credit to EtherealN)

 

The FF thing continues though. I'm working through the suggestions posted elsewhere, but they seem to relate to weak FF in the game as opposed to no FF whatsoever. Strange, as the FF is strong enough to make the joystick dance off the table when I'm testing it in Windows. Ah well, back to the drawing board.

[CyBerkut]

sohei:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=592565&postcount=13

Edited February 27, 2009 by CyBerkut

[sohei]

Thanks CyBerkut. I checked, and the setting was enabled, but I ran it once with it hashed out, then reenabled it, and it came on, although very feebly compared to how powerful the FF really is on this Joystick. I'll work through the recommended settings until I've got it.

[CyBerkut]

A common complaint, to be sure. However, I don't see any basis for folks to be expecting the cyclic (when trimmed) to be as stiff as what the Evo Force is capable of.

 

Refer to:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=641323&postcount=9

 

It would be nice to have some additional adjustability to make the trimmed cyclic provide the resistance desired by the sim pilot. But what we have available now ( Using the settings in http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=613286&postcount=31 ) may actually be a good approximation of how it feels in the real Ka-50.

[sohei]

Well, I'm not really after the same degree of stiffness that is available in the Saitek stick at max, but at the moment it is just proving to be a nuisance to get set up right, so some option for greater adjustability would be most welcome, whether or not it's truly represantitive of the real thing.

 

A minor complaint about a great sim, all in all.

[EtherealN]

I just disabled the FF and I've been very happy with the experience anyhow. I don't have FF pedals either so I'd be half-cut on the trimming even with FF. Just takes a bit of practice to learn the centering after trimming, though I believe the timing it allows is editable in a config file.

[CyBerkut]

I hear you EN. However, I bought a FFB stick specifically to get the trim function on the cyclic. I already had a Saitek X-52, but that is not how I want to control the sim. I also plan to cobble up a FFB set of pedals later on.

[EtherealN]

Yeah, you're the one who planned to dismantle a FF steering wheel for that purpose, right?

[CyBerkut]

I'm planning to get a Saitek R660 for that. It may not be so much a matter of dismantling the wheel as a matter of adding hardware on to it to facilitate the linkage to the pedal mechanism. Depending on how things get oriented, etc., it may not be necessary to remove portions of the wheel. I've got other projects that I want to do first, so that one may be quite a while before I get to it.