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How to disconnect rudder from trim?


RichardG
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Do that in a real heli : light deflection of rudder, keep cyclic steady.

push trim 5 times.

 

Nothing will happen !

 

Do the same in the sim (version 1.0) and you will have full (!!) rudder imployment. Please don´t tell me about improving trim technique - PLEASE !

 

This is because your trim technique is wrong. Upon releasing the trim button (in the sim, mind you) you should reset your joystick to idle position. By not doing this you add that "light deflection of rudder" multiplied five times to a total of what you describe as "full rudder (!!) imployment"...

Are you sure you've read the manual and consulted the various threads on this forum concering trimming?

 

Edit: I'm terribly sorry for not reading your post to the end and realizing you've got a force feedback joystick. My comment does not apply in that case...

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or get a MS-FFB2 ASAP - but It's hard to move from a cougar back to plastic with less buttons...

 

I use my X36 handle on the MS FFB2 socket (so X/Y Axis are MS and I still have X36 stick in my hands including all firebuttons).

(plus X35 T and Rudder Peddals)

 

Maybe you want to do sth similar?

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Meanwhile I have bought a used 6years old (no issues!) MSFFB2 for 60€ on a popular internet trading site -and I love it!

Now I'm caught between both worlds. (FFB and Cougar)

But I have a eye on the new Logitech G490 that will bring FFB to a hotas-setup.


Edited by PeterP
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Meanwhile I have bought a used 6years old (no issues!) MSFFB2 for 60€ on a popular internet trading site -and I love it!

Now I'm caught between both worlds. (FFB and Cougar)

But I have a eye on the new Logitech G 940 thing that will bring FFB to a hotas-setup.

 

 

WHOOooooOOOOTTT...... HOTAS incl. FFB... I need to update myself...

looks strange on the first sight but Im used to 10 years of X36 design.

 

Edit: WOW.. all the features my friends and I were looking for. Never found sth like that so we made our own. But I would put my custom made away.

I also noticed now that the peddals are included. Wow... So I could sell my Saitek Peddals to lower expenses.


Edited by Atelophobia
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I was just doing a check for new HOTAS and had pretty much lost hope of finding a decent one with good FF support, and stumbled on this G940 system at Amazon. I will definitely be interested in hearing reports on how well this works with BS when it comes out. It's a bit expensive, but looks almost as comprehensive as one could have hoped for.

 

WHOOooooOOOOTTT...... HOTAS incl. FFB... I need to update myself...

looks strange on the first sight but Im used to 10 years of X36 design.

 

Edit: WOW.. all the features my friends and I were looking for. Never found sth like that so we made our own. But I would put my custom made away.

I also noticed now that the peddals are included. Wow... So I could sell my Saitek Peddals to lower expenses.

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It's a bit expensive

 

Maybe talking absolut....relativley not

To almost (!) get what the G940 features I had to buy a X36 (ok old, but I didnt like the X45 or 52... did already cost 100 EUR looong time ago), a used (!) MS FFB2 (already 70 EUR), saitek rudder pedals (70-80 EUR). Then there was a lot of soldering etc and it's still not as much as the G940 delivers. At least on the paper - we ll have to see.

At least I wouldn't have to use 3 different logical controllers and the old drivers. Not to mention the crappy Saitek programming software.

 

 

Im confident... the Logitech DFP wheel was worth it's money for example.

Just curious about the ugly X65

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Patch didnt fix rudder trim ???

 

In 1.0.1 user can adjust neutral position ("dead zone") separately for pitch, poll and rudder (in parts of full scale). So, if you set HelicopterTrimmerZoneRudder = 1.0 - you don't need to return pedals in center at all.

 

I did as instructed. But it doesn´t work :mad:

 

It just can´t be possible, that the patch didn´t fix the rudder trim !!!

Please advice how I can disconnect the rudder trim, so I can use the

trim together with the FFB stick as designed, keeping the rudder steady

during trim, as it is in the real KA50 !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I waited patiently for that patch, but if this 2 minute programming work

hasn´t been done, my patience is over :mad::mad::mad:

I just don´t understand, that there isn´t a simple option to disable that trim influencing the rudder. ED invested years to create

the best FM ever made for a Heli, and just forgot this simple option ????????

 

For all who think, I don´t know how to trim, once again the point: In the real KA50 the trim takes the pressure from the rudder,

but it does NOT change the input. As rudder pedals for PC´s don´t have real centering pressure where is the reason for that

weird implementation ?

 

If I have some rudder applied in the sim (for example straight forward flight at 200 km/h: little

right rudder to keep the ball centered) and I now ckick the trim the input doubles in the sim !! That would kill the real chopper

instantly ! The sim design makes sense for forceless joysticks. But for the combination FFB stick PLUS rudder pedals (the most

realistic way to fly BS - BTW) it is plain b.....t !

 

PS: I hope all real time pilots could back up on that matter and all simmers-only pilots refrain from advices about trim technique :smilewink:


Edited by lion737
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I did as instructed. But it doesn´t work :mad:

 

It just can´t be possible, that the patch didn´t fix the rudder trim !!!

Please advice how I can disconnect the rudder trim, so I can use the

trim together with the FFB stick as designed, keeping the rudder steady

during trim, as it is in the real KA50 !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I waited patiently for that patch, but if this 2 minute programming work

hasn´t been done, my patience is over :mad::mad::mad:

I just don´t understand, that there isn´t a simple option to disable that trim influencing the rudder. ED invested years to create

the best FM ever made for a Heli, and just forgot this simple option ????????

 

For all who think, I don´t know how to trim, once again the point: In the real KA50 the trim takes the pressure from the rudder,

but it does NOT change the input. If I have some rudder applied in the sim (for example straight forward flight at 200 km/h: little

right rudder to keep the ball centered) and I now ckick the trim the input doubles in the sim !! That would kill the real chopper

instantly ! The sim design makes sense for forceless joysticks. But for the combination FFB stick PLUS rudder pedals (the most

realistic way to fly BS - BTW) it is plain b.....t !

 

PS: I hope all real time pilots could back up on that matter and all simmers-only pilots refrain from advices about trim technique :smilewink:

 

Hi,

 

i think, this is absolutely correct.

The only axis that is causing trouble in regards of trim is rudder.

One problem is, if you are in a way out of center trim position you need a new trim with the opposite amount of rudder just to come back to center!

As long as you don't have the real hardware it would be much more intuitive to simply disable rudder trim.

 

I started the game after 6 month to check out the new patch and i managed to crash two times in a row just because of bad rudder trim.

 

Please consider this simple solution, just make an option to disable rudder trim.

 

thx, splashman

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I called for disabling of trimming for the pedals in the russian section already, now I second that here too. I use joystick twist instead of pedals and I have to quickly recenter twist and trim once the helicopter goes on a new course, which seems quite uncomfortable. I saw a video of a Ka-50 pilot flying where the clicks of trimming were loud and clear, and i heard no clicks as he turned with pedals. So it seems that in reality once you recenter the pedals the helicopter just maintains current course like it's in DCS with director mode on. Again, a review from a real helicopter pilot would be fine.

СоВа

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I'm currently using an X36, and haven't tried the patch yet. My rudder is on the throttle and is self-centering; consequently, the existing method of trimming works acceptably, and the patch should make it even better. On the other hand, I have also taken an interest in getting a better HOTAS with pedals, probably the new G940 with FF, in order to further increase the realism and improve my flying. The issue in this thread, however, is something that I thought about even before reading it and has me concerned. I think Lion737 is right in that non-centering pedals shouldn't require manual re-centering during a trim. A huge reason I'm considering a FF setup is to get rid of the artifical need to re-center *at all* during a trim operation. However, if I get this ability for the cyclic but I still have to think about re-centering the rudder pedals, I get the feeling this is going to be awkward, with possibly no improvement (or worse) than what I have now. Is it true that the patch really doesn't address this, and is this really the problem I'm making it out to be?

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As rudder pedals for PC´s don´t have real centering pressure where is the reason for that weird implementation ?

 

I think your statement is way too broad. There are some PC rudder pedals that do not have centering pressure, but there are also plenty that do. My pedals do self-center, so the current implementation works very well (it is not "weird" at all). That said, I do agree there should be an option for those without self-centering rudder pedals...


Edited by wombat778
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Hi Wombat,

 

I did NOT plead for no rudder trim for everybody. Please read the post carefully before arguing against it.

I strongly suggested the option to disable it, because they make no sense for the combination FFB stick and most of the

rudder pedals.

 

 

regards

 

PS: exactly as dahlstrom discribed, if you use a FFB stick, where you don´t have to do the centering, it does not make

to much sense to think about centering the rudder, even if it has self-centering. BTW, there is NO centering of the rudder

in the real KA50 ! No pilot would go airborne with such a ´weird´ system installed, cause you wouldn´t survive too much flights.


Edited by lion737
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Please read the post carefully before arguing against it.

 

Trust me, I did read your post(s) carefully, which is why I responded to a specific quote that I thought was too broad. IMHO, it was not appropriate to describe the entire implementation as "weird" because it does not happen to work on your particular setup. The current implementation works just fine for me, and I suspect many others. That was my only point.

 

In any event, good luck and I hope you get your wish. :beer: One suggestion - you might find you get a better response to your requests if your posts were a little less over-the-top. For example, I note from Matt Wagner's signature that he uses a G940, a force feedback setup. That suggests that he may have already encountered and dealt with the issue. Maybe a reasonable and polite post or PM to him would get you the answer you seek...


Edited by wombat778
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One suggestion - you might find you get a better response to your requests if your posts were a little less over-the-top.

 

OK, I agree with that :thumbup:

 

But to my defend: I did buy BS on the first day available. I did fly Flanker 1.0 from the first days (more than 10 years ago...). So I really supported

ED from the beginning. BS is again a great sim. But after a few days I had

to give up, because I couldn´t manage this ´special´ rudder trim implementation.

 

I now waited half a year for that patch, because they promised to fix the trim. Can you perhaps understand why my post was indeed

a little bit over-the-top ?


Edited by lion737
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Guest Gurkenschneider

+1

would be nice to hear from the devs when the rudder trim will be adressed !

I have bought my MS FFB only for BS. But now the centering of the rudder

pedals is even more annoying !

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I just noticed another thread has now popped up on the same/similar issue. I'm just hoping there's an answer for this by the time the G940 is released, as I'm very much looking forward to it. Now that I have the patch installed, trim works better than ever on my X36 with its self-centering rocker/rudder (very nice!); but it looks like non-centering pedals may have taken a step backward. Any ED folks around to comment?

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Have you guys tried changing the Rudder Trim Deadzone to a larger number so it does not get trimmed? I have not, but it may help?

 

C:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\Ka-50\Scripts\Aircrafts\_Common\FMOptions.lua

 

HelicopterTrimmerZoneRudder = ??????

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Didn't lion737 say in a previous post that this doesn't work? Can anyone else who has tried this report on whether it works or not?

 

Have you guys tried changing the Rudder Trim Deadzone to a larger number so it does not get trimmed? I have not, but it may help?

 

C:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\Ka-50\Scripts\Aircrafts\_Common\FMOptions.lua

 

HelicopterTrimmerZoneRudder = ??????

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Would you set HelicopterTrimmerTauInverse to 0? I can't confirm since I don't have a FF stick yet (using this thread to validate the purchase of one). Can lion737 confirm whether this works?

 

For FFB users the new trimmer method isn't import. Rudder can trimm with old method. You can adjust HelicopterTrimmerTauInverse
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For FFB users the new trimmer method isn't import. Rudder can trimm with old method. You can adjust HelicopterTrimmerTauInverse

 

...and this is what the readme says:

 

HelicopterTrimmerTauInverse = 7.0 - time factor for the period given the player to re-center his controls when using the original trimmer implementation.

 

Is it possible, they just don´t understand the problem ????

 

We don´t need a time factor, when the rudder trim is switched off and

the FFB stick doesn´t need any centering either.

 

The beta testers did want the unrealistic trim reset function, because they

messed up with the rudder trim too often. Instead it would have been much

more realistic to substitute the reset with the OFF function.

I will not waste more time with that, and be back when the A10 is out.


Edited by lion737
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