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LOMAC v1.1 copy protection – good news/bad news


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Now I don't know what happened there, but I'm certainly concern about that, because my net connection was open and furiously sending data and I wasn't controlling it ... and that has never occurred to me before, and I have quite a bit of up-to-date PC security on this system. So now I read about this Starforce issue with the demo ... hmmm … it is disconcerting.

 

 

Kill the the Demo starforce from your system and it will never hapen again.

It will be installed again if you mess up with the demo's DLL's and try to run the executable.

I can now ALT tab during the loading screen.

 

I too had some strange internet page startup delays but once I cleaned up starforce it apears bo have solved that small problem.

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What about burning the add-on files to a backup CD. Will that be possible or not, when this StarForce is being used?

 

I am waiting for an official comment from ED on all the issues that the forum users have articulated before I jump to any conclusions. For now, I'm not panicking, I'm just ... anticipating. :)

I want to get away, I wanna fly away.

Yeah, yeah, yeah!

- Lenny Kravitz - Fly Away

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Now I don't know what happened there, but I'm certainly concern about that, because my net connection was open and furiously sending data and I wasn't controlling it ... and that has never occurred to me before, and I have quite a bit of up-to-date PC security on this system. So now I read about this Starforce issue with the demo ... hmmm … it is disconcerting.

 

 

Kill the the Demo starforce from your system and it will never hapen again.

It will be installed again if you mess up with the demo's DLL's and try to run the executable.

I can now ALT tab during the loading screen.

 

I too had some strange internet page startup delays but once I cleaned up starforce it apears bo have solved that small problem.

 

 

ahh, thanks, I thought perhaps I was the only one having this startup issue occurring and the modem going nuts. I thought it must be due to modding the demo to get the other flyables to work. I found where the driver is the System32\drivers folder

 

sfdrv01.sys

 

But if you remove them then go boot-up 1.1, then exit it, they are re-installed again by FC ... haven't worked out how to kill them yet in 1.1, but I haven't had the PC freeze-ups today either.

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As an avid gamer of several genres, I have come across numerous online complaints about StarForce.It seems that the software does have issues.

 

ANything which tries to hook into your system at a very deep level with a system driver, is going to cause some sort of problem. This is very comparable to what Spyware attempts to do. Once you start mucking about with the internals and system process calls of the Operating System, bad things are going to happen at some point in time.

 

Do the StarForce people have an agreement with Microsoft to be informed of new security updates before hand?

What if one of these updates affect the StarForce system driver and causes system instability,are people who purchased a game then supposed to go to the starforce website to download a 'patch' , not for the game, but for their system? That's a risk. And it is a risk that both StarForce and the Publisher needs to recognise.

 

Will StarForce work in a year or two with LongHorn? ANd if not will that mean my game purchase now will only be valid for the next year or so?

 

StarForce does not have the resources to test their software with a wide variety of system types and hardware combinations that is required to ensure that a system driver does not cause conflicts, crash to desktops, or otherwise interfere with normal system use. They may think it doesn't, but until they get a lot of complaints from customers they aren't going to know for sure.

 

I am also wary of software that requires me to disable another legally purchased bit of software such as Clone CD or Alcohol etc. If I can just switch the emulation off to use the game, then fine. If I have to completely UNINSTALL the software to play the game, then that is *not* fine.

 

The claim by StarForce that several of their games remain uncracked could be because afaik their protection scheme has not been used in any best selling titles for the PC. If it's so fantastic, why don't UBISOFT, Electronic Arts or Atari use this protection for their games? Why is it usually smaller developers for games with a lot less fanfare and publicity that use this protection? Silent Storm:niche game(and it was quickly cracked), Broken Sword 3: niche game, small market,TOCA Racing: another niche , low selling game.

 

I would actually have preferred a protection scheme such as Steam, or GamesXtream for example that requires activation once,and then can be used normally, rather than a system level driver needing to be installed on my machine which isn't in any way widely validated. This is gaming software we are talking about, not business software that might be subject to more press and technical scrutiny. There just aren't as many safeguards for the consumer.

 

Hopefully these questions and concerns will be answered.

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ahh, thanks, I thought perhaps I was the only one having this startup issue occurring and the modem going nuts. I thought it must be due to modding the demo to get the other flyables to work. I found where the drivers are in the System32\drivers folder

 

kmixer.sys

sfdrv01.sys

 

But if you remove them then go boot-up 1.1, then exit it, they are re-installed again by FC ... haven't worked out how to kill them yet in 1.1, but I haven't had the PC freeze-ups today either.

 

kmixer.sys is kernel audio mixer of Microsoft Windows. Im pretty sure its was not installed by FC. Just a tought :wink: S!

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So, whats the difference in activating some bad antivirus prog like Nortin AV and a StarForce key? Or is your Norton AV also cracked?

 

No difference - That's the very reason I gave up NAV.

Has it protected Symantec from pirating their software? Not really...

 

Those who change their hardware seriously every month have enough money to buy FC more times :wink:

 

Again, the problem is not money. I am happy to pay $35 for FC.

Hell, I can even pay more - but I don't want this copy protection stuff.

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another question for multiple system users... i have 3 systems right now, will i be able to use FC on them without exhausting the 3 Activation/whatever keys?

Accoding to most licenses, you have a right to install one purshased copy of game on one PC only. And yes, if you will buy 1 add-on you'll violate lincense and you will need to spend your 3 activation on your 3 PCs.

 

i´m not particularly worried about open doors, etc. but i am disgusted that a (possible) data collection program IS on my system. i don´t know what it collects and how that information is sent or not to whom. i use my computer a lot for netbanking so i AM worried.

...

 

another thing and this MAY be pure coincidence:

 

i´ve started to have spyware on my computer since i installed FC demo. now, before anyone starts saying that it IS a coincidence, let me clarify a few points...

 

i have Norton installed and up to date. Firewall activated and i run Spybot regularly.

never had spyware.

a couple of days ago i checked again and had two entries that i removed.

 

i have checked again now and i have 18 entries. makes me wonder. just that.

 

i am going to uninstall FC demo and clear Starforce out of my system and i am going to see if i keep getting entries. if i do, then it WAS a coincidence and FC has nothing to do with it.

Very funny, actually :) I always have a good laugh, when I see how people concern about their privacy and security in internet without any basic knowledge of what they are worry for. It's funny when people catch few IE cookies, and immediatly re-format and re-install PC, just because some useless "spyware search programs" called those cookies as a "spyware" :D

Believe me, SF has nothing with your "new spyware" findings. Just try to not visit "18-years-only" sites and install a good firewall :)

And if you don't believe me, then read or ask other experts, a good system\networks programmers prefferable.

 

Nothing personal, AnzacPT. Please don't take it as offence.

 

well, depending on the EULA, you are right and wrong. Microsoft Licenses SYSTEMS, not users, but many software is licensed to a USER not a machine. that way i can install software in my systems. it´s like having 3 stereos, are you going to buy 3 cd´s of each so that you can use in each stereo? but anyway, this is besides the point...

 

as for the rest, i´m not offended, but maybe next time you might try the analogy with a real teenager, not an almost 30 year old IT manager. i know what i´m talking about. and if you READ my post correctly, i never STATED that it was FC DEMO/Starforce that caused it, i said that it was a possibility.

if i stop getting spyware (and it was spyware, i can give you my log) then nuff said, right?

 

what i would like someone answered me would be what would happen when Starforce goes out of business...

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Hi

 

I don t understand why there has always to be an electronical protection for games. If you write a very good and extensive instruction manual it is the best protection you can get. If the game start you can ask for a password out of the book like word 7 at row 10 on side 121. You have your protection and we have something to read. Ok it my be old-fashioned and not state of the art but that would be a solution.

 

mfg

Balu

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Guest ruggbutt

So the fact that I'm not being girly about it means I'm uninformed?

 

We're being girly because we don't want something installed clandestinely on our rigs? You are a moron. Where I come from we have the ability of free choice and when something like this is done behind our backs it's a breach of trust. You trust ED completely? Sorry, I don't know any of these people and my security is more important. Whether or not Starforce turns out to be a problem isn't the issue at this stage, it's the fact that it was installed w/out my consent. If you can't figure that out and you wanna cloud the fact and call us "girly", then fine. It just shows what a smacktard you are.

 

I'm not saying all these concerns aren't real. In fact, I'm full aware that one of these days, a huge space rock will probably hit earth, but I ain't gonna let that stop me from having fun.

 

And this has to do w/what? Or are you just being an asshole? Nevermind, that's a rhetorical question.

 

............But you all go ahead and cry wolf...

 

Then using your great knowledge and wisdom why don't you show us the error of our ways, w/facts instead of your stupidity and condescending remarks? But then again, you're an uber fanboi and think ED can do no wrong. I have no problems w/supporting ED, I just think that they owe us an explanation why (for instance) they installed a driver on my system for a demo that does not have to be activated. I guess you're just a bit too simpleminded to understand why many of us are pissed off.

 

The rest of us should just take into consideration that your lips are firmly placed upon the collective sphincter of ED.

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LOL

 

Ok i am stoked that ED are thinking of protecting their hard work -KUDOS to them.

 

THE only thing that would scare me was if F.C has Internet explorer as required :P

 

...i suppose MOST people here have boycotted Microsoft?, going by there stance here.

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Guest ruggbutt

 

...i suppose MOST people here have boycotted Microsoft?, going by there stance here.

 

Yeah, that's comparing apples and apples....................................... :shock:

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It seems FC is not the first demo to get the StarForce treatment like this, read the link in this persons post, it is 6 pages of discussion of where this happened with another game and much the same objections and explanations occurred:

 

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=400102&f=38610606&m=8581080482&r=3941033482#3941033482

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I have no problems w/supporting ED, I just think that they owe us an explanation why (for instance) they installed a driver on my system for a demo that does not have to be activated.

 

As for protecting demos, this is supposed to prevent pirates from using open files/info in an unprotected demo to crack the full version later on. Makes sense IMHO, although admittedly I was sceptical about this issue at first.

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if this is case i aint bying 1.1

 

if the 3 times limit is on then the download is crap for me .

i have re formated my machine 2 times since christmas already. so i guess i wont be buying it . if it leads to triojans and viruses then my norton will of not been money well spent at all s. .this as really P******d ,,f****k me off (ALL THIS WAITING) and now this why dont he use normall protection like STEAM JEES it is only an addon. if we have to keep the cd in to play well that means you will eventually scratch it beyond repair and have to buy lockon again . i know i got 2 copies already as one is well worn.. ed dont do the starforce and if its on my pc because of demo you should have told us we are open to backdoor attacks right as i am typeing

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kmixer.sys is kernel audio mixer of Microsoft Windows. Im pretty sure its was not installed by FC. Just a tought :wink: S!

 

Yikes! I used a utility to report the driver associations and it reported that driver as an SF driver! Clearly not so! (I'll amend the post ...) Thanks for the heads up Moose! :oops:

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...i suppose MOST people here have boycotted Microsoft?, going by there stance here.

 

First I need Windows as an OS to play a game and I don't NEED Lock On because there are other games to have fun with. Fortunately I still have a choice when buying a game. And it's not about the money. I pay 10$ a month for a MMORPG.

 

And I don't use the activation of Windows XP because I have an OEM version by Dell.

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SF isn't a thing invented yesterday. It is already on the market for last two years. One of the biggest russian publishers, 1C company, used it for almost all their games. It was also used on many western games from various publishers. At this time, there is no antivirus who threat SF as a malware. And for all these years, many gamers in russia have it installed on their PC - and we don't see any SF epidemy or something so far.

Dmut, I don’t know how did you managed to miss the predicaments of 1C distributing StarForce “protected” IL-2 Forgotten Battles in Russia. By now all the details had to be written in the encyclopedias under the definitions for “laughable flop” and “horrible disaster” :).

I guess it does not qualify for the “SF epidemy” in your book :):):)…

 

Basically, SF isn't more "malware" as Windows itself is. It's a problem of right terms. I prefer to use "backdoor" term or malware when it open a network port to allow remote access by network. With this meaning of "backdoor" term, SF is not a "backdoor", since it don't open a network port, and it is not allow a remote access.

 

But those, who called SF's vulnerability as a "backdoor", used it in this way - http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/B/back-door.html

We can call MS Windows as a "backdoor" by this definition :)

 

Dmut,

I don’t know why you chose to ignore what I wrote about StarForce on a page three of this branch of the forum.

I said:

… Understand – not StarForce protection itself is the problem, but what it allow other malicious software to do...

Please, read the definition of the backdoor on the link you yourself gave us:

---------------------------------------------------

back door: n.

[common] A hole in the security of a system deliberately left in place by designers or maintainers.

---------------------------------------------------

Its not the MS Windows programmers coded function call in StarForce driver to allow to “CreateSystemProcess” for non-privileged user, those were StarForce programmers – by mistake or by design. Hope you also realize - it was ED programmers, who created the installation routine to install the LOCON v1.1 DEMO with this crap distributed in it, without provision to uninstall it with the uninstallation of the DEMO.

If you want - you may try to call Windows a “backdoor” but by the same token you call Netware, Linux, FreeBSD and Solaris – “backdoors”. They all will allow a brainless user with administrative privileges to willingly or unwillingly to undermine their security by installing malicious software. It just because of the ease of use millions of those 404s having Windows installed on their computers, and because of those shear numbers software developers (and malware programmers) flock to develop for this platform of choice.

 

Please, do not insult our intelligence implying that if one of the “system amin wannabee” knows how to type “netstat -?” or “netstat -an” - it make it all OK. He may not have ports opened by malware yet, but he (meaning some of the LOCON players, thanks to StarForce backdoor) may get malware installed with the next e-mail or with visiting next website. Knowing how all those bugs and vulnerabilities being exploited by virus/spyware/addware writers – it is just the matter of time. I hate to see ED contributing to their (virus/spyware/addware writers) cause, paving the road to make their life easier. Yes, users may have all this crap installed on their PCs without help of SF or ED, but ED does not have to help!

Just to make you to understand were I’m coming from – I am a system engineer working in the environment with about 500 servers and about 15000 users. System integrity – is one of my primary responsibilities. I don’t think you can tell me anything new about the extend of the users’ stupidity. But it (users’ stupidity) does not give SF or ED an excuse to compromise their PC security farther. Also, you may not worry about “my system” – it is setup, maintained and protected slightly :) :) :) better then the computers of majority of the potential LOCON buyers.

We, on the West are getting “StarForce ProActive 1.1” which may not contain the backdoor.

I regret to say, but I must - my experiments with "StarForce ProActive 1.1" version December 2004 shows, that exploit works with it in the same way as with "Starforce 3.x Pro" version.

Now, this is really bad news.

Please, understand – not even for a second I doubted about a need for ED to protect its intellectual property. I just hoped that they will find the way to accomplish this without unduly exposing their customers to another potential vulnerability…

I still hope…

You can do more with a kind word and a gun, than with just kind word alone.

- Al Capone

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Copy Protection is useless!

 

This is childish comment. Please do not waste our time and space on this forum!

 

legal customers must be recompense with eg. a printed Manual or so,

 

Ohhh, give me a brake! What else do you want from ED? Free Thrustmaster Cougar?

 

I dont buy copy protectet CD`s. I Only did once, and than no more.

 

This tells it all!

 

Please ED, dont punish the customers! Reward them!

 

Please ED, disregard silly and childish comments and focus on your next project!

 

Hmm.. I think not iam childish, but you are!

An Hotas Cougar... sure... why you write such a crap?

Copy protection is useless. Go and check out BitTorrent, eDonkey etc,

hundreds of illegal games, all working fine, they had an copyprotection,

but you see, i is useless... pepole who want copy a game do it,

and no copyprotection will stop them to do that.

Its the better way to put anything with the game in the Box,

that couldnt be so easy "shared" over internet,

and brings the copyer to buy that game.

By Flightsims a good printed Manual seems good idea for that.

And the other side, many legal buyers of Games have problems with copyprotection.

For Spellforce i had to uninstall my IDE Driver first,

and had a slow CDRom without UDMA support, that the drive has garanted.

So i have to download a noCD Crack, to play the game,

and to have my IDE driver at the same time.

But many potential customers may ask itself why to spend money for a game,

which i can downlod for free (illegal, but who cares), and had no disadvantages

cause i get all the game, and the electronic manual,

plus no trouble with a copy protection.

Maybe the developers and publishers out there should think about that,

and not listening to copyprotection developers, who want only sell there copyprotectionsystem,

and that every copy would be a sell, when illegal copies dont exist, with is a simple lie of them.

Greetings,

OxKing from Germany

 

oxsig.jpg

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which i can downlod for free (illegal, but who cares)

 

who cares if it's illegal? Wow, nice to see ethics are still alive.

:roll:

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"It takes a big man to admit he is wrong...I'm not a big man" Chevy Chase, Fletch Lives

 

3700x - 32gb ram - RTX3080 - Windows 10

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Guest ruggbutt

who cares if it's illegal? Wow, nice to see ethics are still alive.

:roll:

 

Yeah, that's disturbing. And it's also the reason why ED is using a system like Starforce in the first place. It's that attitude that causes all this in the first place. I'll remind myself to blame him if I have any issues at all regarding copy protection in 1.1. :?

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In Oxking's defense, there's a language barrier present ;) He didn't want to say that he doesn't care, but that there are too many people who don't anyway. And it's a fact that pretty much all games are available within hours after release in the warez scene, and many even earlier, without any sort of copy protection. So unfortunately issues with copy protection will even make it less attractive to get legal copies when the illegal ones come without those... not a new fact but still very much the case, which I think was his point with that remark.

 

Not that I consider printed manuals an alternative for a version that is only distibuted by download for other reasons. And multiplayer-keys have hardly stopped pirating much with other games either - even for multiplayer-only games.

Caretaker

 

ED Beta Test Team

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Typical Flight Sim Community hysteria.

 

:roll:

 

Why don't some of you "experts" wait and see. Buy it after it has been out in the market a few weeks if the response is favorable. If it isn't then you feel all warm and fuzzy that you saved $35.00. Coming on here and crying that you are not going to buy FC isn't going to influence me or many others in our decision to support TFC/ED.

 

I've looked at this thread quickly and I don't see any official word from anyone at TFC/ED. Lots of speculation here but I'd like facts. Until then why not dispense with the drama?

 

By the way, Flanker and Lock On were HEAVILY pirated. FACT.

 

Carl

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