LOMAC v1.1 copy protection – good news/bad news

[Bogun]

Guys, stop this – the only two people who definitely know how it will work are Chizh and Dmut. Dmut said – “it's counter of major hardware changes”. So "3 times" is the counter for major hardware (I imagine CPU,Video card, motherboard...).

 

JG27_Arklight

Russian guys are definitely screwed more them we are – they are getting the real “Starforce 3 Pro” with the backdoor. We, on the West are getting “StarForce ProActive 1.1” which may not contain the backdoor.

 

Whats the difference between the two Starforces?

 

My Starforce knowledge is a little limited.

 

As I understand it:

 

The Russians are getting complete v1.1 game on two CDs.

Game will be protected by “Starforce 3 Pro” which will require them to have original CD in the CD-ROM when they start the game (at list until they will get no-CD crack).

http://www.star-force.com/index.phtml?category=56&type=5

In addition to braking many CD/DVD-copying software titles (like Alcohol, etc.), this “Starforce 3 Pro” is definitely contains the “backdoor”.

 

We are getting “the v1.1 patch” to the original LOCON game. Patch is going to be protected by “StarForce ProActive 1.1” which I assume will not need the original CD, but will implement another copy protection scheme – upon install it will generate the unique Key with which you would need to register with the Star Force to get an activation key good for 3 major hardware upgrade during half-year.

http://www.star-force.com/protection.phtml?category=11&type=3&id=210

Dmut has promised to check if this “StarForce ProActive 1.1” contains backdoor as well.

 

My concern is – what did DEMO of the v1.1 installed on my PC already? Does this StarForce driver contains the “backdoor” or not? And why was it not uninstalled after the DEMO uninstallation?

[aceflier]

and is the orginal poster a official representative from ED stating their position? It very well could be only 3 major upgrades and your sunk, but since no one has the slightest clue if it's true or not, it's pointless getting all worked up over.

 

In this case ED can have my money when that first person hits 3 upgrades and is still able to play his copy. Till then ED isnt getting a dime from me.

 

I am also concerned about what 1.1 demo has put on my computer. Malware is illegal no where on that demo did it say do you consent to have malware backdoor trojan put on your system during the install. And ya what happens when microsoft spyware or norton finds this starstorm as malware and it gets removed? Sheesh what a mess.

[Starlight]

- automatic activation via the Internet, fast and easy;

- manual activation on the activation website;

- by e-mail;

 

they all require an internet connection

 

- by phone or fax.

 

yes, where are they available? U.S. and UK? I call a number to another country, and that's gonna cost me 10 more euros. NO THANKS!

 

Activation sucks!

 

It's a user-unfriendly procedure which can be suited to well spreaded software, but not to a limited distribution software.

Again, ED is killing itself in this way.

 

There are already many people who play LockOn that don't see much benefits in buying this game (because it's mainly a patch and 35 USD for a patch are not really a deal). This feature will not increase the number of 1.1 users.

[VapoR]

This is all really weird . . .

 

I guess I don't care about the 3x activation thing. I will just be more careful installing new upgrades. If I do my planned upgrade soon and it will be past my third time, then I will just re-buy the code (reluctantly).

 

What concerns me most is the virus threat, if these rumors are true. I installed the 1.1 demo (with the imbedded Starforce) last weekend and since have had my antivirus pick up a trojan dialer. Of course, this could be total coincidence but it still frightens me nonetheless.

 

I hope this all turns out ok in some way because I REALLY want to buy 1.1 and I think ED deserves to get paid well for their work in our genre.

[benzene31]

If i'm right , the Russian cd work with french lockon1.02 isnt it ? And if i upgrade lockon french1.02 with Russian cd , could i choose the english language ?

 

if yes i plan to order a cd russian , i prefer . How it will cost to me for sending in France from Russia ? 10 $ ? 15 $ ? of course + 35 $ of the lockon1.1 cd

 

35$+10$ ? 35+15$ ?

 

 

thanks

[S77th-RYKE]

shak said

S77th-RYKE wrote:

shak saidQuote:

so what if you would have to pay for EVERY INSTALL. I would. just for suport.

 

 

 

wow ... decency prevents me from saying what I think of you , and believe me it's not positive

 

you bought a gateway 4 years ago and never reinstalled right ?

you're probably browsing the net with a neet toolbar right ?

 

 

 

Do you wear a helmet and ride the little bus?

 

Say whats on your mind.

 

bought a gate way? do you want to know my system specs little boy?

 

 

I just did , thought you could read between the lines ;)

 

pay for every install pfffttt !!!

 

lmao !!!

 

little boy ? lol even your insults are stupid "pay for every install man " !

 

 

 

 

 

[ShaK]

with little boy no insult was intended, just figured you were a little boy.

 

is ok son, were all friendly here

[SilentEagle]

LMAO This is funny stuff guys....

 

So this is a joke right? :?

[S77th-RYKE]

Ok let's not let this get out of hand,

 

You saying "pay for every install " made me mad and I still think i't s a stupid idea, it doesn't mean I think you are stupid.

 

I'm all for copy protection but I will not pay to " lease " a game , I want to own it and be able to install it at my convenience . That program running in the background taking the inventory of my computer is a bad idea.

[Lobolopez220]

I have a question for all you people concerned about activation and hardware changes, considering that microsoft has been using a similar scheme in a lot of products for quite some time including windows and office products have you stopped using these as a result ? I suspect not so please stop with all the doom and gloom about how you arent going to buy 1.1 just because of this point. Personally I feel you are probably driving ED to conclude that we in the West are a bunch of whining sissies and that they should only develop for the CIS market !! :roll:

 

Lobo

[Trident]

I must confess that I don't like the sounds of this either. I can definately live with having to reactivate or reinstall my software when I upgrade or reinstall Windows, but having to re-purchase an application somewhere down the road (for whatever reason and no matter the time limit) is just as certainly inacceptable IMHO.

 

I'll sit back and wait to see which of the above is the case, right now everything is just plain speculation. If it's the former, all is good from my perspective.

 

EDIT: this sums it up nicely:

I'm all for copy protection but I will not pay to " lease " a game , I want to own it and be able to install it at my convenience.

[JG27_Arklight]

I have a question for all you people concerned about activation and hardware changes, considering that microsoft has been using a similar scheme in a lot of products for quite some time including windows and office products have you stopped using these as a result ? I suspect not so please stop with all the doom and gloom about how you arent going to buy 1.1 just because of this point. Personally I feel you are probably driving ED to conclude that we in the West are a bunch of whining sissies and that they should only develop for the CIS market !! :roll:

 

Lobo

 

Only developing in the CIS market = Stupid.

 

They aren't going to sacrifice the acension of their bottom line because they think westerners are "sissy".

 

With MS, all you have to do is call them and they'll give you a new key.

[Dark_Sceptre]

I have a question for all you people concerned about activation and hardware changes, considering that microsoft has been using a similar scheme in a lot of products for quite some time including windows and office products have you stopped using these as a result ? I suspect not so please stop with all the doom and gloom about how you arent going to buy 1.1 just because of this point. Personally I feel you are probably driving ED to conclude that we in the West are a bunch of whining sissies and that they should only develop for the CIS market !! :roll:

 

Lobo

 

The policies you refer to are indeed a subject of some controversy. But microsoft have a monopoly so they can pretty much do as they see fit - even taking them to court hasn't made any big difference. So we all live with it, or run other companies' software when possible.

 

 

As for Eagle choosing to only develop for the CIS market.. I'm not sure that would be such a great loss any more. *shrug* The sim genre may be dying, but they won't be its saviour that's for damn sure.

[Lobolopez220]

 

Only developing in the CIS market = Stupid.

 

They aren't going to sacrifice the acension of their bottom line because they think westerners are "sissy".

 

With MS, all you have to do is call them and they'll give you a new key.

 

Stupid ?? Possibly not, think about it Arklight, their bottom line as you put it is probably already seriously being eaten into by the fact that they need to pay for stuff like extra bandwith for their website for the western download, preparing the english documentation etc etc. Personally in a business mind frame sure selling to the CIS may mean lower margins but then again production costs there are lower and as its mostly in the developers native language it will be easier to produce and it makes sense to limit your market especially if you are a small company with limited funds.

 

In regards to MS the point I was trying to make is that they also require to you reactivate after a certain change of hardware and its at their discretion whether they allow you to do this or not. We do not know whether ED will take this approach too, its too early to comment.

[Wolverine]

Well after reading everyones comments who are for/against getting 1.1 I am came to the conclusion that I am going to get flaming cliffs, and a share in a tinfoil company. :lol:

 

I am aware of only one safe way of not getting malware and virsus and that is not letting my PC connect to the interweb other than that I will continue to update my firewall, antivirus etc and hope for the best.

[AJS]

The best system i have seen for copy protection is used for the Game Live for Speed. It is similar to Lock on, in that it is a , internet distributed game, directly from the developers.

 

With LFS you get to Apply for re activation up to 3 times per month. Your old key is deleted and your new one is the only one that works.

 

I STRONGLY suggest ED check out the copy protection used by the guys at http://www.liveforspeed.com , it is BY FAR the easiest, most transparent and secure copy protection.

 

Nate

 

Edit:- from the LFS faq.

 

Answer to: How often can I unlock?:

Initially you will be granted 3 unlocks. In addition, you get an additional unlock available every first day of the month, provided you do not already have 2 unlocks available. So unless you are having severe problems with your computer, you should be fine and always able to unlock LFS again after a reinstallation of Windows for example, or when you buy new computer parts a a whole new computer.

 

 

Answer to: How can I unlock LFS S1?:

If you have purchased an S1 or S2 license, you can unlock LFS S1 (and S2 when it's released), doing the following:

Go to your license status page and click on 'Request unlock'.

Then start LFS and enter your username and GAMEpassword on the unlock page.

 

They introduced the new system after everyone got mad like here right now.

 

Initially the number of keys were also very limited.

 

With LFS the devs are in control of their sim and product activation and no 3rd party is involved.

 

I also think it´s very sad that one must apply copy protection to such a product. I think it´s safe to say that just the serious simmers would buy the title anyways.

 

If you are a hardcore simmer you buy your software, right ? Maybe if you were really really poor you wouldn´t buy it.

 

Still there aren´t that many good sims around and i think almost everyone can afford them. I don´t get why we need such a hardcore protection for a niche product with dedicated fans. Same feelings for Live For Speed but the system is pretty comfortable now and there are no 3rd party drivers involved.

 

I don´t have much money but i would never ever pirate a good sim :?

[Lobolopez220]

 

As for Eagle choosing to only develop for the CIS market.. I'm not sure that would be such a great loss any more. *shrug* The sim genre may be dying, but they won't be its saviour that's for damn sure.

 

I agree that they wont be the saviour but it certainly cant hurt the genre for them to continue producing sims of this nature. On a more global scale I think it would actually be a fair loss as slowly you are starting to see huge multinational firms carving up the western games market. I would say its generally easier for smaller companies that have no corporate limitations put on their creativity to be innovative with their products.

 

Lobo

[Nasder]

So can anyone clarify this. I am a bit confused.

 

Can I only install 1.1 three times and then I need to buy it again?

 

Or can I upgrade my computer three times before I need to buy it again?

 

Or can I get a new key once these three times are done, like I can with windows XP, I just call a free support line and get a new key in less than 10 minutes (if there is no line).

 

I will buy the game, but I will feel very ripped off if I buy a software I am not allowed to use when/if I change computer often. Computers break and get old and parts need to be replaced...

[Guest ruggbutt]

I am aware of only one safe way of not getting malware and virsus and that is not letting my PC connect to the interweb other than that I will update my firewall, antivirus etc and hope for the best.

 

Too late, you connected to post that. :shock:

[Wolverine]

I am aware of only one safe way of not getting malware and virsus and that is not letting my PC connect to the interweb other than that I will update my firewall, antivirus etc and hope for the best.

 

Too late, you connected to post that. :shock:

 

OH I didnt know that. :roll: :lol:

[JG27_Arklight]

 

Only developing in the CIS market = Stupid.

 

They aren't going to sacrifice the acension of their bottom line because they think westerners are "sissy".

 

With MS, all you have to do is call them and they'll give you a new key.

 

Stupid ?? Possibly not, think about it Arklight, their bottom line as you put it is probably already seriously being eaten into by the fact that they need to pay for stuff like extra bandwith for their website for the western download, preparing the english documentation etc etc. Personally in a business mind frame sure selling to the CIS may mean lower margins but then again production costs there are lower and as its mostly in the developers native language it will be easier to produce and it makes sense to limit your market especially if you are a small company with limited funds.

 

In regards to MS the point I was trying to make is that they also require to you reactivate after a certain change of hardware and its at their discretion whether they allow you to do this or not. We do not know whether ED will take this approach too, its too early to comment.

 

That is only true to an extent, though.

 

Sure developemnt costs may be less to only sell in the CIS but the increase in margin by selling in the west far outwieghs this. For example:

 

If I sell lemonade on my street only, let us say I would make $100 in a week. The only cost being the price of lemons, stand, etc..

 

If I sell lemonade to the two major streets 1 mile away (US and UK for instance) I would have to buy a bicycle to go there. Sure the bicycle would cost me money, but my increase in sales would increase to such an extent that the extra cost of the bicycle is clearly justifed and a moot issue.

 

The demand already exists. Therefore, limiting your sales market is downright non-sensical.

[W-Natas]

Here is some Infos about it.

 

http://www.pcfreunde.de/download-software/programm-61-66-5175/utilities/sicherheit/starforce-proactive.html

 

I dont what for a model ED will use.

[schimmel]

Hmm...

It's really strange about what ppl get upset here. THIS is the important thing IMO:

 

I've recently reinstalled Janes FA-18 and Microprose Falcon 4, both 5+ years old.

 

Now I don't know if ED or Starforce is still around in 5 years.

 

This activation thing, as such, is really no big deal. Every time you buy computer hardware at an online shop, you leave behing a lot of information.

[169th_Moose]

I would imagine that ED did made his homework on this issue.

It would not be in Eagle Dynamic interest of implementing a “backdoor” that would be permitted to others to enter your system.

But lets think about it. Star-force is a legitimate business with its only purpose is to protect de data from Malicious Thieves.

 

You think that once you removed the software it still on your system?

 

Quote: http://www.firingsquad.com/features/starforce_interview/page3.asp

 

iringSquad: Uninstalling games that use StarForce, such as TOCA Race Driver 2, Broken Sword 3 and Silent Storm apparently doesn't remove StarForce. Was this simply an oversight by game publishers/developers, or a necessary part of the copy protection process?

 

Abbie Sommer: The fact that they remain was something that no one predicted would be such a contentious issue. Going forward, we are encouraging all publishers to include the SFdriver cleaner utility into their un-install scripts. There are a tremendous amount of residual files that get loaded onto on a system without our knowledge when we load a program, be it a game, a movie or music player, video or sound card drivers etc. Far more than the average person realizes. Now that we hear the dissatisfaction about it, we have taken steps to fix it, the publishers are too. We also have the tools posted on our website for anyone to download. http://www.star-force.com/index.phtml?category=200&type=5 BTW, we are not the only CP provider who loads drivers; it is a common part of several protections.

 

As for http://www.star-force.com/index.phtml?category=200&type=5

 

End Users How to update or uninstall StarForce drivers

Why are drivers installed on my PC?

Some versions of StarForce Copy Protection will install dedicated drivers on your PC. Those drivers are necessary for the StarForce specific CD/DVD checking procedure, only. They do not include any hidden functionality. The drivers are active only at execution of the protected application. StarForce constantly improves their drivers to keep them compatible with the latest versions of Windows operating systems.

How to update StarForce Drivers:

Updating StarForce drivers can improve protected applications performance and drivers compatibility. The following procedure will update the StarForce drivers on your system.

1. Download the SFUPDATE tool as a ZIP archive.

2. Extract and store sfdrvup.exe anywhere on your hard disk.

3. Run sfdrvup.exe.

How to remove all StarForce components from your PC:

Sometimes the un-installation utility of the protected application does not uninstall all StarForce drivers. The following procedure will ensure that all StarForce related components are completely removed from your system.

1. Download the SFREMOVE tool as a ZIP archive.

2. Extract and store sfdrvrem.exe anywhere on your hard disk.

3. Run sfdrvrem.exe.

If the protected application requires a StarForce driver, this driver will be re-installed as soon as you launch the application again. For further help, please contact the helpdesk of the application publisher.

Note that all cases of unauthorized distribution of StarForce Removal Tool (sfdrvrem.exe) itself, be it .EXE file or the utility archive (.ZIP, .RAR, etc.), are considered as infringement of the copyright. For authorization, please contact StarForce at sales@star-force.com.

NEW! Drivers vulnerability issue clarification

 

End Users

The old version of StarForce drivers did indeed allow executing code using Administrator rights for its purposes. We would like to clarify some points. What we see here is that drivers may be accessed by any application. This application gets Administrator privileges and is not hampered by OS security as it would have been if being run with normal or low rights. This issue has happened before with some companies, and it was never a "critical" security matter (see http://computercops.biz/article2661.html for details).

It is well-known that the overwhelming majority of home users work under Administrator accounts all the time, thus this driver vulnerability does not affect them at all, as any application run will work with Administrator rights by default. This is significant only for business workstations working with common User rights. Going further we see that there are no complex StarForce protected games on business workstations, therefore this problem is valid only for office computers that have business applications protected with StarForce using the drivers (yet most of the time business applications are protected without drivers).

If you work in User-mode most of the time and wish to fix this vulnerability in StarForce drivers, you should do the following:

1) Run sfclean utility (http://www.star-force.com/index.phtml?category=200&type=5) to remove old drivers. (You may also use this utility in order to remove old StarForce drivers that are no longer needed)

2) Download and install the software patch that fixes this vulnerability from the software publisher. The publishers are informed of this issue and can create a patch.

P.S. StarForce would like to thank the hardworking team and their financial backers who have found this driver vulnerability. If it wasn't for you, we wouldn't be in business.

 

[END QUOTE]

 

 

So point in mind all software due leave residue on 1 computer. Even so more with Antivirus / Software base firewalls also.

Keep in mind that this company goal “Software security” so if there a bugs in the software. They will most likely once brought to their attention, put in place some patches to fix security holes.

 

Never the less, your operating system itself if already full of security holes. So if someone would really want to access your computer, they would not need this software to access it.

 

Let ED do what he think is in there best interest. I’m pretty sure its safe. Never the less I will test it for myself once I’ve purchased it. Don’t panic guys. You have the right to question the vulnerability’s of star forces. But then again, take in consideration what ED has invested in this. True nothing Is unbreakable in regards of security codes. But then again, lets not make it easy for them.

 

In regards of how to contact Star force:

 

Contacts

If you have any questions, suggestions or comments concerning the StarForce Copy Protection System, please contact us at:

 

StarForce Technologies International

 

Email: sales@star-force.com

Http: http://www.star-force.com/

 

StarForce Technologies USA and Canada

 

2261 Market Street, #642

San Francisco, CA 94114

USA Tel (415) 864-6800

Email: abbie@star-force.com

 

StarForce Technologies China

 

Asia-Pacific Representative Office

China, Beijing, Haidian district, Zhongguancun Tower, 710#

zip 100080

phone +86(10) 82856017

fax +86(10) 828 56013

Email: sales@star-force.com.cn

Http: http://www.star-force.com.cn/

 

Protection Technology Russia

 

Altufevskoe shosse, 5/2

127106 Moscow, Russia

Tel +7 (095) 9671451

Fax +7 (095) 9671452

E-mail: sales@star-force.ru

Http: http://www.star-force.ru/

 

StarForce Technologies, Ltd.

 

Samou, 8, Maria, Ag. Omologites, P.C. 1086,

Nicosia, Cyprus, Cy-1640

 

Unfortunately, they don’t seem to have a toll free number. That is odd especially if you want to register by phone.

 

 

Well in my book, I’m still purchasing ED Flaming Cliff. I never pass a good thing. I'm not scared of Star force. And no I dont work for Starforce lol. I just studied a bit what your concerns was brought in this thread. I work as an Advanced Technical Agent in one of the biggest ISP in Canada. Yes Internet security is always my concern. But I never jump to gunz. I step back and study the matter first. As we all should.

 

Cheers

[Lobolopez220]

That is only true to an extent, though.

 

Sure developemnt costs may be less to only sell in the CIS but the increase in margin by selling in the west far outwieghs this. For example:

 

If I sell lemonade on my street only, let us say I would make $100 in a week. The only cost being the price of lemons, stand, etc..

 

If I sell lemonade to the two major streets 1 mile away (US and UK for instance) I would have to buy a bicycle to go there. Sure the bicycle would cost me money, but my increase in sales would increase to such an extent that the extra cost of the bicycle is clearly justifed and a moot issue.

 

The demand already exists. Therefore, limiting your sales market is downright non-sensical.

 

Ah yes but thats the important point, in the example you give above you assume that the cost of buying the bike will be offset by the increase in sales but this is difficult to gauge. To expand on that just look at the number of people who constantly post on various forums saying they will not buy Lo:mac becuase it doesnt have x US/Non-Russian plane etc. This and the fact that Ubi dropped ED leads me to believe that demand is not as high as you may think. It is oversimplification to state for a fact that demand already exists and that you are guaranteed sales if you publish in the West :) (of course if you want to get really complicated about international trading there are many additional issues to consider for example foreign exchange costs for selling in one currency and paying your suppliers/staff in another etc.)

 

Lobo