LOMAC v1.1 copy protection – good news/bad news

[Bogun]

First – the Good News: ED is serious about 1.1 copy protection.

Hopefully the scheme they eventually will come up with, will prevent unrestricted pirating of the game and will promote the moneyflow to finance the future development of LOCKON.

In the thread on Russian branch of LockOn Forum here:

http://forum.lockon.ru/viewtopic.php?t=3369&sid=528ebad60f78971e93cc7a00398c086b

the issue of copy protection of the upcoming v1.1 is being discussed.

 

Second – the Bad News:

It look like the software they choose right now to protect the game is the StarForce v3.

How it suppose to work:

1. In Russian version – normal copy protected CD. CD is required to play the game. (That is - until “noCD fix” been found).

2. In Western version (as I understand it) – when we install the game – the key tied to the hardware on your computer is going to be generated. If you update your computer this key will/may change. With this key we will need to go to StarForce site to activate the key. StarForce will start the counter which will allow you to reinstall the game total of 3 times. The though is – when pirates try to distribute the game+key and many people try to use the same key often – it will quickly become clear – this key is been used by software pirates and will be locked.

 

The problem - StarForce is just bad peace of software.

Do the search on Google for “StarForce +backdoor” to find out more.

Here are two links:

http://xforce.iss.net/xforce/xfdb/18047

http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/11628

 

In short - Starforce drivers, installed in your system, may grant ring-0 (OS core) privileges to any code from ring-3 (user level) - in the worst case any virus or trojan can get OS privileges and totally control you on your system.

 

StarForce is not the virus by itself, but it allow real viruses, spyware, exploits to be installed on your computer. To make thing worst – often when you uninstall StarForce protected software – the StarForce driver remains installed and running.

Check it for yourself – uninstall the Flaming Cliffs DEMO and do the search in registry for StarForce or sfdrv01.sys…

Why did ED need to distribute StarForce with the v1.1 DEMO anyway?

 

For me this is major issue. I would not want knowingly or unknowingly have such peace of software installed on my PC. Hope ED can come up with any other way to protect their game, while there is still time left before the release…

[EscCtrl]

This is an important issuse and maybe ED are unaware of the problems involved for us in the West. Try and contact Cizh soon about this.

[Sealpup]

So, I only have 3 re-installs (or major hardware upgrades) before I have to buy the game again? Or is it possible to get a little help from the Starforce folks?

 

I ask because my computer configuration is changing nearly monthly since I built it, and I'm not done yet.

[ZoomBoy27]

Back door .. access granted ... foam.. foam... foam.. blaah blaah blaah A low-risk theoretical threat for about 150 western users. But for the fact that we simheads are regularly changing our machines and are the most technically proficient. 3 Times only? A system has to be stronger than that. And what about a possible dedicated server?

 

More immediately - I was hoping to buy 2 copies. 1 for me and another for a buddy who doesn't have a credit card. That's going to be tricky if not impossible under these systems. I'll await the hammering out of details to see if 2 copies will be sold rather than 1.

[aceflier]

If this is all true im not buying 1.1. Copy protection of any kind always screws the guy who paid for his game and it always gets cracked. Waste of money for the devs and if someone is going to pirate a game they would have never bought the game to begin with. Also, do you know how many times I've had reconfigured my hardware? 5 or 6 times in the year. that means if this is true i would have bought lockon at least 3 times. Soon to be 4 when i add another stick of ram. Rediculous.

 

If a Dev could confirm? People arent going to buy if this is true.

 

BTW i bouight 2 copies of original lockon on release day to support the devs.

[W-Natas]

3 reinstalls???

I hope this isnt true....

 

What kind of moneymaking system is this? :evil:

 

Learning russian and buy the russian Cd would be cheaper.

 

I think i have to stay on the Standard Version :(

[Dmut]

Re: LOMAC v1.1 copy protection – good news/bad news

 

With this key we will need to go to StarForce site to activate the key. StarForce will start the counter which will allow you to reinstall the game total of 3 times.

it's not a reinstall counter, it's counter of major hardware changes, when SF will ask you for a new activation, similar to Windows XP. Anybody has a problems with activating MS Windows after hardware changes? I mean legal copies, of course.

You will not need a new activation if you just reinstalling it.

[aceflier]

Re: LOMAC v1.1 copy protection – good news/bad news

 

With this key we will need to go to StarForce site to activate the key. StarForce will start the counter which will allow you to reinstall the game total of 3 times.

it's not a reinstall counter, it's counter of major hardware changes, when SF will ask you for a new activation, similar to Windows XP. Anybody has a problems with activating MS Windows after hardware changes? I mean legal copies, of course.

You will not need a new activation if you just reinstalling it.

 

In other words you are buying a game that is going to take the next level of hardware for you to really max out the graphics so, you upgrade your motherboard in 1 month you have to reinstall and re activate. Next month you upgrade your processor for that board. Then next month you upgrade your ram. Your next hardware change (GPU) you will have to rebuy lockon again.

 

No tx!! ED just lost a paying customer.

[Witchking]

thats not a smart copy protection if u ask me. It looks like the steam thing is actually better than this. WHY NOT MAKE US ACCOUNTS AND A PROGRAM THAT TRACKS OUR USER NAMES & IP ADRESSES. Imean so that one cannot give his username to others. Its not a fair deal to pay for the game for only 3 INSTALLS of hardware.

 

HOPEFULLY ED change this. I totally support copy protection SHOULD BE UNBREAKABLE FOR LOMAC. I IN ALL FAITH HOPE THAT THEY FIND THE BEST UN BREAKABLE COPY PROTECTION..however limits like 3 hardware changes is a little silly.

[Dmut]

Re: LOMAC v1.1 copy protection – good news/bad news

 

With this key we will need to go to StarForce site to activate the key. StarForce will start the counter which will allow you to reinstall the game total of 3 times.

it's not a reinstall counter, it's counter of major hardware changes, when SF will ask you for a new activation, similar to Windows XP. Anybody has a problems with activating MS Windows after hardware changes? I mean legal copies, of course.

You will not need a new activation if you just reinstalling it.

 

In other words you are buying a game that is going to take the next level of hardware for you to really max out the graphics so, you upgrade your motherboard in 1 month you have to reinstall and re activate. Next month you upgrade your processor for that board. Then next month you upgrade your ram. Your next hardware change (GPU) you will have to rebuy lockon again.

 

No tx!! ED just lost a paying customer.

 

It's only need to re-activate after _major_ changes, like processor or system harddrive. They are not so stupid to ask for activation every time you plug your mouse on.

 

About vulnerability:

only CD version of StarForce (called Starforce 3 Pro) was confirmed to have a "ring-0" vulnerability. Network version SF in Western release (called StarForce ProActive 1.1) might not have this issue (need to check).

[Bigfoot209th]

Here's the latest I can find on this from StarForce.

 

http://www.star-force.com/index.phtml?id=606&type=5&add=1&category=200

[Dmut]

thats not a smart copy protection if u ask me. It looks like the steam thing is actually better than this. WHY NOT MAKE US ACCOUNTS AND A PROGRAM THAT TRACKS OUR USER NAMES & IP ADRESSES. Imean so that one cannot give his username to others. Its not a fair deal to pay for the game for only 3 INSTALLS of hardware.

 

HOPEFULLY ED change this. I totally support copy protection SHOULD BE UNBREAKABLE FOR LOMAC. I IN ALL FAITH HOPE THAT THEY FIND THE BEST UN BREAKABLE COPY PROTECTION..however limits like 3 hardware changes is a little silly.

Tracking an IP is not good for dial-up and xDSL modem users.

 

And Gentlemen, let's wait for official statement from ED before starting all that "protection-activation" hysteria.

[Guest ruggbutt]

So we can only install it 3 times total, say I buy 3 different computers? I have to buy the game again? So it has only replayability of 3 years? (I upgrade every year) Does that mean I use one install when I install it on a dedicated server?

 

I suggest you make copies of the CD available to the west. If this is gonna be another POS system that makes it difficult like UBI had then I'd prefer a hard copy.

[Bogun]

Good, we have ED person here.

Please, Dmut, check for the backdoor!

[aceflier]

Re: LOMAC v1.1 copy protection – good news/bad news

 

With this key we will need to go to StarForce site to activate the key. StarForce will start the counter which will allow you to reinstall the game total of 3 times.

it's not a reinstall counter, it's counter of major hardware changes, when SF will ask you for a new activation, similar to Windows XP. Anybody has a problems with activating MS Windows after hardware changes? I mean legal copies, of course.

You will not need a new activation if you just reinstalling it.

 

In other words you are buying a game that is going to take the next level of hardware for you to really max out the graphics so, you upgrade your motherboard in 1 month you have to reinstall and re activate. Next month you upgrade your processor for that board. Then next month you upgrade your ram. Your next hardware change (GPU) you will have to rebuy lockon again.

 

No tx!! ED just lost a paying customer.

 

It's only need to re-activate after _major_ changes, like processor or system harddrive. They are not so stupid to ask for activation every time you plug your mouse on.

 

About vulnerability:

only CD version of StarForce (called Starforce 3 Pro) was confirmed to have a "ring-0" vulnerability. Network version SF in Western release (called StarForce ProActive 1.1) might not have this issue (need to check).

 

Point is dmut I'm on my 2nd computer in a year. About 9 hardware changes in all I cant afford to go out and buy it all at once so I have to piece it together. I plan on buildig another pc next spring. (socketA to 939) This would mean I would have to buy lockon 1.1 again. That is the worste piece of copy protection I have ever heard of. Again, costing the paying customer in the end.

[169th_Moose]

Re: LOMAC v1.1 copy protection – good news/bad news

 

With this key we will need to go to StarForce site to activate the key. StarForce will start the counter which will allow you to reinstall the game total of 3 times.

it's not a reinstall counter, it's counter of major hardware changes, when SF will ask you for a new activation, similar to Windows XP. Anybody has a problems with activating MS Windows after hardware changes? I mean legal copies, of course.

You will not need a new activation if you just reinstalling it.

 

Dmut is there any confirmation about the 3 re install thing? Are the Dev's only considering Star-force.com, at this time, to protect the add-on or is it a definit fact.

 

To my experience I had to re install lockon so many times. Why? Due that some mod's that in the long wrong corrupted my game. Also have to re install my OS at least 2 times a year either due to virus or registry corruption.

 

I for one, I'm happy to see the DEV's protecting there work.

 

 

Cheers

[Guest ruggbutt]

Re: LOMAC v1.1 copy protection – good news/bad news

 

That is the worste piece of copy protection I have ever heard of. Again, costing the paying customer in the end.

 

Yep, I think they just lost a sale to every one in our squadron.

[Bogun]

Re: LOMAC v1.1 copy protection – good news/bad news

 

With this key we will need to go to StarForce site to activate the key. StarForce will start the counter which will allow you to reinstall the game total of 3 times.

it's not a reinstall counter, it's counter of major hardware changes, when SF will ask you for a new activation, similar to Windows XP. Anybody has a problems with activating MS Windows after hardware changes? I mean legal copies, of course.

You will not need a new activation if you just reinstalling it.

 

Dmut is there any confirmation about the 3 re install thing? To my experience I had to re install lockon so many times. Why? Due that some mod's that in the long wrong corrupted my game. Also have to re install my OS at least 2 times a year either due to virus or registry corruption...

 

I think if you reinstall your v1.1 on the same PC (same hardware) - you would not need to re-register, you use the same key StarForce will give you initially.

Guys, listen to what Dmut has to say.

[Witchking]

HOPEFULLY THEY HAVEN"T FINALISED STARFORCE YET!!!!

 

 

comeon ED....GET A COPY PROTECTION THAT BASICALLY TAKES SOO MUCH DETAILS ABOUT THE USER....etc and information from comuter so that ONLY THE PURCHASER CAN BUY. BUT do NOT place linits lke 3 HARDWARE installs.....as a matter of fact...that is none of starforce's OR ANY developer's businness since a home user can modify his own computer without permission.

 

AT LEAST it should be that we should be able to request a VALID serial instead of buying after those 3 attempts. Then they should probably check for IF IT IS THE SAME USER. If his reason does make sense....not just """"OOh!! I thought I can play lomac on another computer....""" but more reasons like """"I was playing lomac for 10 days straight and my system exploded...thats why I bought a new computer :P "

[169th_Moose]

Never heard of star-force before today so I made a quick search, and found a good article. I recommend you check it out

 

http://www.firingsquad.com/features/starforce_interview/ ;

 

In recent months there's been an increasing awareness and alarm over StarForce copy protection. It's actually a driver that installs itself with the games that come shipped with it, and originally it didn't uninstall when the game was uninstalled. There are many panicked reports about "StarForce disabled/fried my USB flash scanner/ATA drive/CD drive". Having lived through several internet panics like this - from the V-chip through CD keys to Senator Joe Lieberman's bills on game sales to minors - and generally having participated on the wrong side of them - I was skeptical. I've learned that if there's one thing that the internet is good at, it's spreading rumors and unnecessary hyperbolic panic. Like I said, I was part of that myself in earlier times.

 

So, rather than simply jump aboard the panic wagon, we decided to get the word straight from the horse's mouth. Here then is our interview with Abbie Sommer of StarForce.....

 

 

Cheers

[schimmel]

The main problem for me is not only the security issue, but also the installation limits. I don't buy a game that I can't install anymore in a few years. Yes I still have my Civilization 1 copy and I want it to work. The problem with activation is that there's no guarantee that it will still work in 5 years.

 

I hope you make a wise decision. I have nothing against copy protection as long as it doesn't hurt the paying customer.

 

Further I'm really sceptical about wether a strong copy protection increases the sales number.

 

Edit: So you seem serious about it. Well I don't blame anyone Dmut. I just won't support such decisions. I won't buy the game if it has an activation system.

[Dmut]

Re: LOMAC v1.1 copy protection – good news/bad news

 

Dmut is there any confirmation about the 3 re install thing?

Yes, yesterday Chizh said on russian forums, that number 3 is considered as an optimal number of re-activation (again, not re-installation :!:) for games.

 

Good, we have ED person here.

Please, Dmut, check for the backdoor!

Sorry guys, I'm not from ED staff, just a backup Moderator and freelancer transtator from Russian forums. I'll check a vulnerability in "SF ProActive 1.1" today.

 

Point is dmut I'm on my 2nd computer in a year. About 9 hardware changes in all I cant afford to go out and buy it all at once so I have to piece it together. I plan on buildig another pc next spring. (socketA to 939) This would mean I would have to buy lockon 1.1 again. That is the worste piece of copy protection I have ever heard of. Again, costing the paying customer in the end.

Please guys, don't blame me for this, it isn't my decision about installing SF protection. I just trying to share my knowledge and experience on this matter.

[Starlight]

There was just one thing that people asked not to be present in LO 1.1 that was product activation. They managed to put it in!

 

The problems are twofold.

 

1. It makes your pc less secure

2. It makes the game unusable after 3 hardware changes.

 

IMHO, should these reasons be confirmed when it's realeased, they are more than enough for me for not buying this game.

I'll briefly explain my point of view.

 

1. If this software contains backdoors or is not so secure, there is the risk that it's used like a trojan. Very simple, go to HL server, contact all the IPs you see playing Lo:FC online, and you're sure that those are good targets. Then even if this wasn't the case I don't want any spyware or product I don't know in my pc. that's all.

 

2. I changed my hardware config at least fiive to ten times last year. I changed my graphic card, my motherboard, two or three times the CPU and I also upgraded the ram quantity. Not to count how many times I removed my internal TV-Tuner card to use it on other PCs. And while my main pc had the PSU ko, I installed lomac on my other pc, which oblviously had another config. I'm not buying this game if I'm not sure I cannot use it where I want and for all the time I want.

BTW if you're thinking about WinXp activation, this is a game, NOT an OS! an OS is essential to run a PC, LO:FC is not (and also since it hasn't a really large user base it should not lose players in this silly way)

 

The copy protection is something that is needed to guarantee the software producer, but it should not clash with the user needs.

 

If LO:FC doesn't meet my requirements I won't buy it. I'll still play Lomac, LO:FC Demo, and the other tons of sims that there are in the free market :)

[Witchking]

EAGLE DYNAMICS!!! WE ARE SUPPORTING ANY UNBREAKABLE COPY PROTECTIO U WANT TO USE>>>>BUT PLEASE REMOVE THE 3 HARDWARE CHANGE LIMITS. PLEASE!!! THATS ALL WE ASK YA!!

 

make an extensive USER system or something..

 

 

what the hell..use steam if u guys want to :P INGAME...checks if the copy is legal....distribute patches trough steam...as hl2...

 

comeon....but not that kind of limits...thats very very disheartening. :( :(

[destroyex]

Does anyone know if I will be able to get it for free again if I have bought it then reformatted my computer and want to be able to play it again? I kinda want to buy this as soon as it comes out but I am upgrading a ton of things in the next couple of months so I will need to reformat...