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The F-35 Thread


Groove

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Listening to some more debate about the Canadian purchase. Although Canada did not review other choices besides the F-35 in detail, the F-35 itself as everyone knows went through a competition . Also, many Canadian companies will benefit as they have contracts to make F-35 parts. In fact, in the town I work in there is a company that will produces parts for the landing gear.

 

One thing is for certain, Canada needs new fighter jets.

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It's just Ignatieff being an idiot. It is a purely political issue, nothing else. He just wants to make waves and found himself a way to do it.

 

I suppose in a way, it is his job.

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Man, I just notice that the Weapons bay door are partially open when STOVL configuration, or when landing vertically I should say. I wonder why is that?

4721582087_aa7b3c2fd5_o.jpg

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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Listening to some more debate about the Canadian purchase. Although Canada did not review other choices besides the F-35 in detail, the F-35 itself as everyone knows went through a competition . Also, many Canadian companies will benefit as they have contracts to make F-35 parts. In fact, in the town I work in there is a company that will produces parts for the landing gear.

 

One thing is for certain, Canada needs new fighter jets.

 

1 sided purchase decision IS unusual, and IS the political game here. The competition between the YF-35 and Y-F32 has nothing to do with this. We are talking about exports not fighter development. The YF-16 also competed against YF-17, yet the countries looking for a fighter had to open a contender. Its a matter of legality, and a cost reducing factor.

 

If Canada does really go ahead with this they wont get any benefits in the deal after contender competition, nor will the Canadians have anything written on paper before they embark on that boat. They will pay whatever Lockheed decides. Oh well at least Canada is wealthy... :music_whistling:

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Man, I just notice that the Weapons bay door are partially open when STOVL configuration, or when landing vertically I should say. I wonder why is that?

 

To capture the exhaust from the Fan/Jet for additional lift and control of jet wash.

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Thanks, I would have never thought about that. Fair enough

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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I dunno how to embed vids in this forum...

 

{YOUTUBE} everything after the = {/YOUTUBE} but change the {} with []

The only way to make sense out of change is to plunge into it, move with it, and join the dance.

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BF01_VL_10P00196_46_1269967624_3134.jpg

Marine Lt. Col. Fred Schenk completed two sorties on BF-1's fifty-seventh test flight (a single test flight can have multiple takeoffs and landings). The flight included two short takeoffs (one at 80 kt and another at 90 kt) and two vertical landings.

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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or it is just bluff, just like many other occasions

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  • 4 weeks later...

F135 above 50,000 lb thrust :crazy:

 

Pratt Raises Stakes In JSF Engine Battle

 

 

Aug 27, 2010

 

By Guy Norris

f35b-verticallanding-lockmart.jpg

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. — Pratt & Whitney is upping the ante in the ongoing F-35 Joint Strike Fighter engine war by revealing the F135 has achieved combat-rated thrust 20% higher than the specification.

The disclosure raises the demonstrated sea-level thrust for the F135 above 50,000 lb., and follows results from the General Electric/Rolls-Royce Fighter Engine Team earlier this month that indicate the F136 alternate engine has in excess of 15% margin against the same specification.

Pratt & Whitney Military Engines President Warren Boley says the F135 result proves “we have demonstrated margin” and that “we have the right core size.” Thrust growth is not a specific requirement for the Lockheed Martin F-35; however, the provision of additional margin — either for trading for longer operating life or for future growth — is considered an important bargaining chip by the contenders.

Nevertheless, Boley says even though Pratt has demonstrated measured thrust with the conventional-takeoff-and-landing (CTOL) engine variant well in excess of the F135’s advertised 43,000-lb.-thrust capability, the focus remains on providing a systems-level solution to the F-35 thrust requirement. “So when someone says an engine can produce more thrust, if the lift fan can’t produce more, then you can’t use that thrust,” he says.

Another thrust-limiting factor is the Pratt-developed exhaust duct, Boley adds. As a result, “if someone says their thrust module can produce more thrust, it is interesting but not applicable,” he says.

Overall F135 thrust margin also varies depending on engine variant and altitude. For example, tests show that the CTOL engine has around 12% excess against specification at higher Mach numbers, and the short-takeoff-and-vertical-landing (Stovl) variant has “demonstrated much less margin” owing to configuration limitations placed by the lift fan.

Although Boley outlined plans at the recent Farnborough air show to start tests of a higher-thrust F135 in January 2011, and later next year starting rig tests of a “growth” fan, he says this strategy is aimed at 5-10% thrust growth for later F-35 development “if needed.” Questions remain over what thrust will be needed, and when, because the baseline thrust assumption for the F-35 “is that it is not going to grow and grow like the F-16.”

The F-16 thrust requirement, like other fourth-generation fighters such as the F-15, has grown in lockstep with heavier weapons and stores payloads. This is not the case with the F-35, Boley says, which for stealth reasons is designed to accommodate the majority of its payloads and future growth internally. “Fifth-generation fighter optimization is different from the optimization used for the fourth generation. Requirements drove the 43,000 lb. thrust to begin with, and it’s not one that is going to grow from 24,000 to 29,000 to 32,000 lb. thrust,” he says. This is one reason the GE-Rolls “great fighter engine war” argument is irrelevant, Boley asserts.

Boley spoke at Pratt’s facility here, where the engine maker is closing on the final set of initial service release (ISR) tests for the F-35B Stovl engine. “We’re at the end of the development cycle,” he says.

ISR clearance work is focused on accelerated mission and crosswind tests on two engines at West Palm Beach, and inlet operability tests on an engine at the Arnold Engineering Development Center in Tullahoma, Tenn. With the completion of these, “we will write 3,000 verification reports to the JSF Program Office, and late in the fall the system program office will stamp off the ISR for the F-35B engine,” he adds. Actual clearance is expected around Dec. 1.

The tests mark the conclusion of the F135 development phase, the CTOL engine having achieved ISR clearance in early March.

Photo: Lockheed Martin

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_generic.jsp?channel=defense&id=news/asd/2010/08/27/01.xml&headline=Pratt

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“Fifth-generation fighter optimization is different from the optimization used for the fourth generation. Requirements drove the 43,000 lb. thrust to begin with, and it’s not one that is going to grow from 24,000 to 29,000 to 32,000 lb. thrust,”

 

I also read that article and found above statement a little bit worrying. One cannot escape the impression that F-35 will be to much of a closed box, a dinosaur in the making.

 

Whereas a lightweight 4.5 generation design like Gripen allows you to insert/attach goodies as they come, going from Litening 3 to Meteor and AESA, I guess everything that isn't planned in F-35 will become a nightmare to introduce.

 

In my view definitely NOT the way to go. How will the fully integrated optronics of F-35 compare with Litening 5 or later?

 

Since F-16 was arguably one of the most succesfull designs ever, the wisdom of Lockheed stating how different F-35 will be escapes me.

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Who said you can't upgrade the optical capabilities internally?

The F-35 currently has everything it needs built-in, and provisions to carry various stores internally OR externally if necessary.

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Agreed. Everything I read about the F-35 suggests it will be update and maintenance freindly. The question here is that the end user cannot take initiative to develop equipment on his own like the Israelis want. Thats another ball game.

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I wonder lately what is it in F-22 that the US government doesn`t want to reveal compared to F-35. One will be exported the other one is not approved for export yet. Does anyone have any idea or some theory which systems or materials or design solutions are so secret and more advanced than those in F-35, to justify the selling ban?

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The following specific items, IMHO:

 

Stealth - ahead of that in the F-35

APG-77 - especially geared for the A2A mission with some major LPI funkiness happening

ALR-94 - Touted as the most advanced fighter-borne ESM sensor ... not just RWR, but ESM, integrating the radar and other sensors, as well as datalinks to achieve fast and accurate EID on contacts. It has also been rumoured that the ALR-94 alone is capable of providing weapon employment quality position information.

 

 

 

I wonder lately what is it in F-22 that the US government doesn`t want to reveal compared to F-35. One will be exported the other one is not approved for export yet. Does anyone have any idea or some theory which systems or materials or design solutions are so secret and more advanced than those in F-35, to justify the selling ban?

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The raptor has all-aspect stealth which would probably reduce detection range by about half again that of the F-35, if I recall my numbers correctly ;)

 

Not sure they are interested in downgrading their premier A2A fighter - if you downgrade it, what's the point?

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The raptor has all-aspect stealth which would probably reduce detection range by about half again that of the F-35, if I recall my numbers correctly ;)

 

Remember that training fights between raptor and eagles where the F-15s could not maintain stable lock even in visual range? It will be interesting how will F-35 perform in F-22`s place?

 

 

Not sure they are interested in downgrading their premier A2A fighter - if you downgrade it, what's the point?

 

Downgrade the export version I meant.

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