The F-35 Thread

[Maior]

I know i smoke too much weed, but....what IF we're nothing more than STEAK for other species, which is very likely in that case and most likely the only reason why they would have to enter our atmosphere. For our resources they could drop a virus and come back in 20 years. The same way we exterminate rats.

 

Better yet, they're making us pollute the earth since that makes global temperature rise and we'll be all slowly roast alive. Sealing our juices within :megalol:

Speculation is endless man :)

 

So just open your minds, a worldwide battle with precision weapons needed instead of making the planet inhabitable with nukes. How much would be possible? The same goes for other nations. It's nice when you can launch 50-100 at a given time simultaniously, but what if more is needed?

 

Be very aware that most of our governments have smart people around actually having this on a drawingboard for just IF.

 

Well, developing these systems could, in a way, precipitate the use of nukes since it'll be the only standoff weapon able to stop the winning side. If the F-22 and F-35 do what they say they will do, then until Russia (well, they're the most advanced and resourceful opponent for now) or china can catch up tech wise, their only real defence is to go for a Nuclear draw. We only need one lunatic with his finger on the button. If either USA or Russia decide to go all out nuke, there's no amount of F-35s that can save us. Those nasty multiple warhead Russian nukes are tough as nails. They have all kinds of evasion software and skills (if skill is the right word here).

 

Now, I have a feeling that in a big engagement facing fully integrated ADS, their abilities will give them an edge but not be decisive (judging by the history of warfare).

 

Maybe we should all just carefully put our guns down with no sudden movements. And go see who has the right to offshore drilling in the Polar caps by using DCS...

[swift]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-02-22/flawed-f-35-fighter-too-big-to-kill-as-lockheed-hooks-45-states.html

[Weta43]

If other countries drop their orders, maybe LMT can reduce the total cost to build by licensing the aircraft's image to game developers :)

[marcos]

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/general-electric-completes-advent-core-testing-382542/

 

General Electric (GE) says it completed engine core testing for its ADaptive Versatile ENgine Technology (ADVENT) demonstrator earlier this month on 6 February. The prototype variable-cycle engine reached the "highest combination of compressor and turbine temperatures ever recorded in aviation history", says the company, which is working on the programme for the US Air Force Research Laboratory (AFRL).

 

GE says that the ADVENT effort will wrap-up later this year with a full engine test. However, the technologies developed through the programme will be used on the AFRL's the follow-on Adaptive Engine Technology Demonstrator (AETD) development.

 

 

"This is a critical milestone that gives us great confidence as we prepare for the full engine test in ADVENT later this year and move forward on the design of the AETD engine," says Dan McCormick, GE's general manager for the ADVENT and follow-on AETD programmes. "We'll integrate these proven ADVENT technologies into our AETD engine, along with advanced controls and exhaust system designs."

 

GE attributes the accomplishment to advanced lightweight, heat-resistant ceramic matrix composite (CMC) materials, which combined with an adaptive low pressure spool, result in a 25% improvement in fuel efficiency, a 30% increase in operating range and a 5% to 10% improvement in thrust compared to existing fixed-cycle engines.

 

GE says it completed the initial design review for its version of the AETD engine on 8 February. A preliminary design review milestone is scheduled for November 2014. The AETD programme will conclude in 2016 following fan rig testing and a core engine test.

 

Pratt & Whitney is developing a rival engine for the AETD programme, having displaced Rolls & Royce, which was developing a competing ADVENT engine.

[Kaktus29]

the alien discussion)) love it).. yeah,i also agree with some commentators that any aliens advanced enough of interstellar travel are advanced enough not only to kill us "in our sleep" but also advanced enough that they can get whatever supplies they need from the moon, mars and other planets which are in the billions and billions..

 

remember chemistry is pretty much playground for an advanced civilisation.. getting energy is easy once you are advanced .. and no, Earth is not some special planet that has some material that cannot be found even in our solar system.. you do have to combine the molecules and atoms in such a way to get the proper "material" ..as i said, being advanced enough to interstellar travel your ass it means no need to attack savages living on planet Earth and busy killing themselves ..

 

i always enjoyed the stupid movie plots though.. and how brave US marines always kick this aliens ass)) man, to travel from another star system only to be defeated by usa marines)) mann, this alien inteligence service sucks.. must be getting info from CIA))

 

About F-35..yes, it is a disaster,..only because of the price.. look, we are talking economy here..its like.. killing your enemy but you ended up loosing your arm,legs, ability to talk, and taste food.. this should be considered a failed project because of that..

 

a real military planners plan in such a way that resources are properly used(not to bankrupt a nation!) .. If all the software and sensors of F-35 are transferred into a better designed F-16 design (which would cost considerably less) you already get a winner.. F-22 is used only at the start of the operation when air supremacy is needed in the air.. F-16(improved) would be used for the rest.. when i say f-16 i don't mean the same f-16 that exists now,but totally redesigned minus the repeat of jsf disaster).. the whole project should cost 50 billion USD not 400 bn! .. this is a clear case of "gimme money" from the Lockheed corporation ..

 

Remember the germans, they made very good tanks, Tiger, Panther.. this beasts could destroy anything on the battlefield.. but in war simplicity is important, speed, reliability, and it has to be cheap or at least affordable .. this JSF is not.. maybe for US that think it can print any ammount of fake dollars and get away with it yes, its no big deal to pay 140 million for 1 plane, at this logic it could cost 5 bn who cares.. but for countries that don't have that ability to print money out of thin air (australia, canada, italy etc..) this plane is looking more and more as a clusterfu*k of epic proportions.. basically its a project to bind all nations who buy this into US orbit.. because without F-22 this nations will not be able to do horse jack sh*t on the battlefield.. And we all know F-22 is OFF the MARKET )) ..

 

Thats why the "allies" are getting worried..they see the jig ..

Edited February 22, 2013 by Kaktus29

[Mandrake5]

the alien discussion)) love it).. .. maybe for US that think it can print any ammount of fake dollars and get away with it yes,

 

Economics not being your strongest subject, then.... :facepalm:

[Kaktus29]

economics is very easy to understand..if you don't know something ask i will explain.. i oblige..

 

US has their USD-Dollar as the worlds reserve..it is used for buying commodities like oil, gas, international financial transactions.. meaning whatever amount of USD is printed by USA it is literally transported to the nations using the dollar in their economies.. so inflation will be higher in Russia(which sells lots of oil,gas, China for it sells lots of products to EU, Latin nations)..

 

so .. i believe the facepalm is yours to take sir.. enjoy it..

[Mandrake5]

economics is very easy to understand..if you don't know something ask i will explain.. i oblige..

 

US has their USD-Dollar as the worlds reserve..it is used for buying commodities like oil, gas, international financial transactions.. meaning whatever amount of USD is printed by USA it is literally transported to the nations using the dollar in their economies.. so inflation will be higher in Russia(which sells lots of oil,gas, China for it sells lots of products to EU, Latin nations)..

 

so .. i believe the facepalm is yours to take sir.. enjoy it..

 

Consider my case rested :)

[tflash]

Sorry to interrupt the philosophical discussions with some more news on F-35: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/22/us-lockheed-fighter-idUSBRE91L10U20130222

[Maior]

economics is very easy to understand..if you don't know something ask i will explain.. i oblige..

 

US has their USD-Dollar as the worlds reserve..it is used for buying commodities like oil, gas, international financial transactions.. meaning whatever amount of USD is printed by USA it is literally transported to the nations using the dollar in their economies.. so inflation will be higher in Russia(which sells lots of oil,gas, China for it sells lots of products to EU, Latin nations)..

 

so .. i believe the facepalm is yours to take sir.. enjoy it..

 

Don't forget, the US also prints fake untraceable dollars to follow drug money around... So they say. This parallel economy dollars are actually useful to keep the economy afloat.

 

Iran bought their F-14s with fake dollars apparently. Still, the main problem is that we have one block of people who say that this weapon systems should be done regardless of what non experts say, and another side who are going to argue that spending money in such systems while people are starving is a poor idea. regardless of performance. That's when Politics come to play. The Canadian CF-105 got axed this way. The longer a project drags on, the more likely it is that the project will end up being axed in a move to gain votes. For example, With the US debt ceiling looming and midterm elections in two years, if any more delays happen to the JSF, I bet that the program will be axed.

 

The dollar is not used in many transactions anymore FYI, now you have competing currencies. Iraq wanted to start trading oil in Euros prior to the invasion (hence the French not wanting to go there).

 

Also, the increasing cost of programs makes war more likely to occur since the only way you'll get your money back, is by using these weapons and take what you need. It's an investment ^^

 

Ahhhh, politics and weapons... A dangerous combo indeed.

[aaron886]

Sorry to interrupt the philosophical discussions with some more news on F-35: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/22/us-lockheed-fighter-idUSBRE91L10U20130222

 

Look people! An on-topic post instead of aliens and politics.

[WynnTTr]

It's not 'Um' it's 'you and what magic?' followed by 'DAS and HOBS missiles'.

And the enemy wouldn't have it's own version of a HOBS missile?

 

The way the F-35 program is going it'd be more likely that Russia or China would have caught up with their own versions... and the F-35 might be "too sluggish" to even defeat that.

 

For that amount of money and with what we know surely a superlative plane could have been built without all these delays and cost blowouts.

 

But we're going in circles. Like I said earlier, bring it on. Roll it out already so that we can really study its performance and then see if its worth it.

[GGTharos]

And the enemy wouldn't have it's own version of a HOBS missile?

 

It wouldn't have its own version of jumping stealth planes equipped with DAS. They're trying to put in a system like this in the PAK-FA, and maybe they will be successful, maybe not. It wasn't an easy system to make work on the F-35 to begin with.

 

The way the F-35 program is going it'd be more likely that Russia or China would have caught up with their own versions... and the F-35 might be "too sluggish" to even defeat that.

 

Compared to what? China is building a few new planes of their own, and so is Russia, yes, but right now they're not exactly in danger of matching production levels, or data-link integration or anything of the sort, at least at this point. They're all playing catch-up, not caught-up.

[Maior]

It wouldn't have its own version of jumping stealth planes equipped with DAS. They're trying to put in a system like this in the PAK-FA, and maybe they will be successful, maybe not. It wasn't an easy system to make work on the F-35 to begin with.

 

 

 

Compared to what? China is building a few new planes of their own, and so is Russia, yes, but right now they're not exactly in danger of matching production levels, or data-link integration or anything of the sort, at least at this point. They're all playing catch-up, not caught-up.

 

 

True. Russia is miles away and China is even further back. They are catching up but, it gets harder and harder as they approach the tech levels US and Europe have. It's no chance that Russia is signing deals on tech transfers left right and center. They're buying 3 Mistral ships and building other three with a full tech transfer from france ($1.6bln iirc). And a couple of years ago, they signed a deal with Israel worth $400M to buy drones and full tech transfer. It's hard to achieve the level of electronics the F-35 has. Heck, Even America and the "western world" had troubles doing it. Look at the cost slides the F-35 had.

 

The example of Datalink is a perfect of catching up. Russia's recent aircraft have uprated western like datalink capabilities. But an F-22 raptor can use it's radar to act as a modem and do datalink transmissions in a faster more secure way. So Russia now, has what the Americans had in the mid 90s. Will they be able to improve it? Sure. But they have to pay for it.

 

There are no shortcuts in modern warfare. lf you want tech, you have to pay for it. Either by paying Researchers and Engineers and allow the natural flow of science to take it's course or, by paying for the tech transfer which will be costlier but faster.

Russia has almost 20 years of neglect to make up to and china still has troubles making decent engines and micro electronics.

[Snoopy]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/02/22/f-35-fleet-grounded-after-engine-crack-found/?test=latestnews

 

The Pentagon on Friday grounded its fleet of F-35 fighter jets after discovering a cracked engine blade in one plane.

 

The problem was discovered during what the Pentagon called a routine inspection at Edwards Air Force Base, California, of an F-35A, the Air Force version of the sleek new plane. The Navy and the Marine Corps are buying other versions of the F-35, which is intended to replace older fighters like the Air Force F-16 and the Navy F/A-18.

 

All versions -- a total of 51 planes -- were grounded Friday pending a more in-depth evaluation of the problem discovered at Edwards. None of the planes have been fielded for combat operations; all are undergoing testing.

 

In a brief written statement, the Pentagon said it is too early to know the full impact of the newly discovered problem.

 

A watchdog group, the Project on Government Oversight, said the grounding is not likely to mean a significant delay in the effort to field the stealthy aircraft.

 

"The F-35 is a huge problem because of its growing, already unaffordable, cost and its gigantically disappointing performance," the group's Winslow Wheeler said. "That performance would be unacceptable even if the aircraft met its far-too-modest requirements, but it is not."

 

The F-35 is the Pentagon's most expensive weapons program at a total estimated cost of nearly $400 billion. The Pentagon envisions buying more than 2,400 F-35s, but some members of Congress are balking at the price tag.

 

Friday's suspension of flight operations will remain in effect until an investigation of the problem's root cause is determined.

 

The Pentagon said the engine in which the problem was discovered is being shipped to a Pratt & Whitney facility in Connecticut for more thorough evaluation.

[Mandrake5]

There are no shortcuts in modern warfare. lf you want tech, you have to pay for it. Either by paying Researchers and Engineers and allow the natural flow of science to take it's course or, by paying for the tech transfer which will be costlier but faster.

Russia has almost 20 years of neglect to make up to and china still has troubles making decent engines and micro electronics.

 

Oh yes there are, they're called security services and they do all sorts of unsportingly naughty things like using spies to steal secrets so they can copy or reverse engineer them, and of course hack computers for the same reason...and certain countries have employed these cloak-and-dagger merchants effectively for many years to save them $trillions in military R&D costs.....

[strikeout]

Stealing Military Technology

 

Oh yes there are, they're called security services and they do all sorts of unsportingly naughty things like using spies to steal secrets so they can copy or reverse engineer them, and of course hack computers for the same reason...and certain countries have employed these cloak-and-dagger merchants effectively for many years to save them $trillions in military R&D costs.....

 

It was recently admitted by US Government Officials that all the current design plans for US nuclear weapons had been stolen by the Chinese, and they still don't know how it was done.

 

Also, if a government is going to steal technology it should make sure it steals a design that works properly.

 

The Soviets badly copied the Concord and had to redesign it at great expense. Likewise, they also copied much of the Space Shuttle with the Buran design - which flew only once.

 

I am sure the Chinese, Russians or others will not be in a hurry to copy the F-35.

 

Thanks.

[WynnTTr]

It wouldn't have its own version of jumping stealth planes equipped with DAS. They're trying to put in a system like this in the PAK-FA, and maybe they will be successful, maybe not. It wasn't an easy system to make work on the F-35 to begin with.

 

Compared to what? China is building a few new planes of their own, and so is Russia, yes, but right now they're not exactly in danger of matching production levels, or data-link integration or anything of the sort, at least at this point. They're all playing catch-up, not caught-up.

 

Sorry I should have been more clear. I meant that when it comes to furball range and HOBS comes into play can the F-35 defeat a HOBS missile? That's the point I was trying to make. With it being sluggish, probably not. With it being slow it might not even get a chance to egress.

 

I did mention what with the delay the program is having that by the time it comes into production the other side may well have developed their own versions of DAS/HOBS. Hell the way its going now my kids might see it in operation let alone me.

 

Also never underestimate the enemy - I'm sure that's a Sun Tzu quote or something.

 

I'll say it for the third time - with the cost, time and knowledge of what we have currently we should be getting a superlative aircraft that excels in all aspects particularly its performance, given its price.

 

And thanks Paul for -

 

Originally Posted by Foxnews

The Pentagon on Friday grounded its fleet of F-35 fighter jets after discovering a cracked engine blade in one plane.

 

The problem was discovered during what the Pentagon called a routine inspection at Edwards Air Force Base, California, of an F-35A, the Air Force version of the sleek new plane. The Navy and the Marine Corps are buying other versions of the F-35, which is intended to replace older fighters like the Air Force F-16 and the Navy F/A-18.

 

All versions -- a total of 51 planes -- were grounded Friday pending a more in-depth evaluation of the problem discovered at Edwards. None of the planes have been fielded for combat operations; all are undergoing testing.

 

In a brief written statement, the Pentagon said it is too early to know the full impact of the newly discovered problem.

 

A watchdog group, the Project on Government Oversight, said the grounding is not likely to mean a significant delay in the effort to field the stealthy aircraft.

 

"The F-35 is a huge problem because of its growing, already unaffordable, cost and its gigantically disappointing performance," the group's Winslow Wheeler said. "That performance would be unacceptable even if the aircraft met its far-too-modest requirements, but it is not."

 

The F-35 is the Pentagon's most expensive weapons program at a total estimated cost of nearly $400 billion. The Pentagon envisions buying more than 2,400 F-35s, but some members of Congress are balking at the price tag.

 

Friday's suspension of flight operations will remain in effect until an investigation of the problem's root cause is determined.

 

The Pentagon said the engine in which the problem was discovered is being shipped to a Pratt & Whitney facility in Connecticut for more thorough evaluation.

[marcos]

Sorry to interrupt the philosophical discussions with some more news on F-35: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/22/us-lockheed-fighter-idUSBRE91L10U20130222

Not good. Should have selected Rolls-Royce.:lol:

 

 

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2013/02/dn022213-f35-grounded-again-mil/

 

On Feb. 19, 2013, a routine engine inspection revealed a crack on a low pressure turbine blade of an F135 engine installed in a [conventional takeoff] test aircraft at Edwards Air Force Base, Calif,” wrote Kyra Hawn, Joint Program Office spokeswoman, in a statement.

 

Edited February 23, 2013 by marcos

[Maior]

Oh yes there are, they're called security services and they do all sorts of unsportingly naughty things like using spies to steal secrets so they can copy or reverse engineer them, and of course hack computers for the same reason...and certain countries have employed these cloak-and-dagger merchants effectively for many years to save them $trillions in military R&D costs.....

 

 

Well, security agencies were a bit of an oversight on my part ^^ They can help but not as effectively. China also copied the Su-27 by reverse engineering it however, they still use Israel's electronics and Russian Engines since they lack the skill to produce both. So, there's a shortcut that tells you how things work but you still need to know how to make them.

[GGTharos]

Sorry I should have been more clear. I meant that when it comes to furball range and HOBS comes into play can the F-35 defeat a HOBS missile? That's the point I was trying to make.

 

No fighter can defeat a HOBS missile technically, it doesn't matter how much thrust vectoring or sustained g they have. You don't egress out of a furball, there's no way to do so without taking a missile up the tailpipe. You might blow through it (as in fly straight through it without turning and thus slowing down) and launch things as you do so, but even that is a poor idea.

 

Furballs are crap-shoots, and maneuverability won't save you.

 

But at least with DAS, the F-35 has the SA advantage in a furball, where the other guys might end up shooting each other.

 

I did mention what with the delay the program is having that by the time it comes into production the other side may well have developed their own versions of DAS/HOBS. Hell the way its going now my kids might see it in operation let alone me.

Not likely - that is, 'everyone' has HOBS now, but DAS is a bit of another deal. They might have something like it, but not quite that for a while.

 

Also never underestimate the enemy - I'm sure that's a Sun Tzu quote or something.

Overestimating can also be bad.

 

I'll say it for the third time - with the cost, time and knowledge of what we have currently we should be getting a superlative aircraft that excels in all aspects particularly its performance, given its price.

Planes tend to excel at what they're designed for. The F-35 wasn't designed for overwhelming air to air capability, but against certain aircraft that is exactly what it will have. There's nothing modest about its capabilities.

[Manuel]

Just saw it in the news:

 

broken engine blade causes government to ground F35 Fighters

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/23/us-f35-grounded-cracked-engine-blade

[marcos]

Funny thing is that it was an LP blade.

[Maior]

Another bit of news, this time on the F-35 weapon systems.

 

New details on the CUDA hit-to-kill missile emerge.

 

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/details-emerge-about-lockheeds-cuda-missile-382670/

 

This is the new missile that'll equip 4+ and 5th generation fighters.

 

Announced Features:

Multimode seeker head,

Expands BVR envelope

Increases WVR capabilities

All aspect

Mainly AA but Lockeed doesn't set aside the chance of Ash and AG capabilities

-Low cost-

 

 

With this weapon, Lockeed Martin hopes to bring new flexibility to the 5th gen fighters by reducing cost per sortie and simplify payload. A very interesting piece of technology.

 

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline//2013/02/more-details-about-lockheeds-c.html

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/details-emerge-about-lockheeds-cuda-missile-382670/

[Invader ZIM]

Thanks for that info Maior, geez this thing can carry 12 of those 360 missiles from the photo. But how many CUDA's can the F-22 carry then?

Edited February 24, 2013 by Invader ZIM