The F-35 Thread

[Pilotasso]

Hi :

 

More News from UK F-35 . . .

 

" The JSF, or F35 as it is now called, has been subject to costly delays and the estimated price has soared from £37m each four years ago to more than £62m today.

 

One compromise would be for the Ministry of Defence (MoD) to halve its order from 140 planes to 70. "

 

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jan/12/defence-aircraft-jet-fighters-budget

 

LaRata

 

 

That probably had lots to do with the radical the fall of £ in the exchange rates. Why, oh why did the brits stick with that currency? Pay the price now :D

Edited January 18, 2010 by Pilotasso

[tflash]

BF-02 fully painted:

 

[Ramstein]

That sure is an ugly plane...

IMHO

 

stubby, odd,, maybe it's the photo,,, the angle,, or??

 

it also appears the politics is really amess witht he develpment program.. from reading the news lately..

:pilotfly:

[GGTharos]

It's not the photo or angle, it is stubby. I wonder why they made the canopy like that. Reduces the pilot SA.

 

DASS. Best SA you'll ever get on a plane ... seeing right through your own plane's fuselage.

[LaRata]

More News ...

 

" At the Pentagon’s behest, Lockheed Martin has already started building production models of the F-35, even though only 2 percent of the flight test program has been completed. “Unless they convert the program to a fly-before-you-buy approach, they will continue to have pain,” said Winslow T. Wheeler, an analyst for the Center for Defense Information in Washington. "

 

" But while delays and overruns pushed the cost of the F-22 so high that only 187 are being built, the projected costs of the F-35 program have also risen to $298.8 billion from an early estimate of about $200 billion.

 

Counting all the development costs, each F-35 is now projected to cost about $122 million compared with about $350 million for each F-22. Another concern is that additional problems often appear in flight testing. And a recent Navy study concluded that the F-35 could be significantly more expensive to operate than older fighters. "

 

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/108749/gates-tries-to-get-f35-program-back-on-course

 

 

LaRata

Edited February 5, 2010 by LaRata
more data

[mikoyan]

I know modern jet fighters can do the job of lets say hundreds of WWII bombers, but if there were a major world conflict with fairly balanced powers; I don't see how the US and Europeans hope to cope with loses. I just feel that jet fighters had gotten too expensive... yes they are capable but each one you loose is a huge set back. I like the grippen approach but even they had gotten expensive. maybe Lokheed Martin should develop a base model with less advanced features and a small number of super advanced jets?

I know that there are studies on how reliable single engines are, but in my country we have lost several mirages not to mechanical failures but with encounters with vultures. Now imaging the same scenario , but instead you are not talking about a 5 mil mirage V but your 200 million fighter.

How many f-16 had been lost on accidents, how many f-15 ? can the US and NATO afford lets say a similar number of f-35 incidents?

[tflash]

Mikoyan,

 

Don' forget the 400th Super Hornet has been delivered on time, on budget; F-16 production line isn't halted yet. I guess the success of the F-16/F/A-18/F-15 designs have given western-allied powers a serious safety margin allowing them to protract regeneration.

 

It is true though that Rafale has been a problem since it was to expensive for the large Mirage customer base. I guess many of the plentitude of F-16 operators won't be able to buy F-35 either. But they will be able to buy F-16 MLU and Block 50-52 second hand.

[Wilde]

I wonder why they made the canopy like that. Reduces the pilot SA.

 

It's because of the lift fan. That thing is a STOVL version. You can see the covering blankets of the lift fan behind the cockpit. The other versions have a bigger canopy, that doesn't obstruct rear view as much.

[Mnemonic]

Second generation HMD for F-35! :)

Great article:

http://www.codeonemagazine.com/archives/2009/articles/jul_09/f-35_hmd/index.html

 

So far looks great, not so ugly as first one for sure!

 

 

 

Compare with previous version:

 

 

Also, interesting quote from article:

Each of some 8,000 F-35 pilots worldwide will be custom-fitted to his or her own helmet. Fit is vital to both safety and symbology because the functionality of the HMD relies on precise positioning of the optics. The optics, in turn, project the symbols onto the visor directly in front of the pilot's eyes, creating two green spots. "If the helmet shifts when pulling g's, the green spots can rotate out causing the pilot to lose all the symbols," Beesley explains. "If the green dots aren't in front of the eyes, the pilot doesn't see anything from the HMD. It's called 'losing the exit pupil.' That's why the fit must be exact and tightly positioned."

P.S. Also interesting stuff - picture of upcoming Russian next-gen pilot HMD called ГЕО-НСЦИ (GEO-NSCI)

This is probably designed to use with PAK-FA.

 

Compare it visually to new F-35 HMD... what can I say - classic Russian design :)

Edited February 12, 2010 by Mnemonic

[mikoyan]

Second generation HMD for F-35! :)

Great article:

http://www.codeonemagazine.com/archives/2009/articles/jul_09/f-35_hmd/index.html

 

So far looks great, not so ugly as first one for sure!

 

 

 

Compare with previous version:

 

 

Also, interesting quote from article:

P.S. Also interesting stuff - picture of upcoming Russian next-gen pilot HMD called ГЕО-НСЦИ (GEO-NSCI)

This is probably designed to use with PAK-FA.

 

Compare it visually to new F-35 HMD... what can I say - classic Russian design :)

 

Yeah this helmet is cool and looks like it work just fine, but to me it is not practical. If you are on war do you think that you are going to have time to custom order your helmets for each one of your pilots, what if you get transfer pilots from other places, what if your custom made helmet fails, you have to other custom made $8000 replacement? what if the helmets are not delivered on time; that would pretty much disable one aircraft. hell now I know why the f-35 cost so much, it is like a hand made machine, just like a Ferrari.

If this jet is going to war, the helmet needs to be standard and work for all the pilots with some kind of adjustable settings. Would this thing protect the pilot eyes during an ejection? the visor looks delicate to me? has this thing been tested during an ejection? would it help to keep the pilot head in the right position like the primitive and heavy Russian helmets do?

I guess I'm the only one likes the first gen model.:doh:

Edited February 13, 2010 by mikoyan
crappy writing!

[GGTharos]

Did you think the second gen model would be worse than the first one? ;)

 

Custom made helmets for your pilots: 100k a piece

Exchange ratio increase vs bandits and AAA thanks to enhanced SA from said helmet: Winning the air superiority war

For everything else, there's MasterCard.

 

The F-35's SA capability is insane. You can see right through your plane - and all aircraft and other things around you are tracked and identified in real-time, from datalink, radar, and the optical systems onboard the JSF. It's like you've got the other guy fighting blind ... especially at night, even if he has NVGs - and you always have labels on.

 

That's what a 100k HMD gets you.

[mvsgas]

Yeah this helmet is cool and looks like it work just fine, but to me it is not practical. If you are on war do you think that you are going to have time to custom order your helmets for each one of your pilots, what if you get transfer pilots from other places, what if your custom made helmet fails, you have to other custom made $8000 replacement? what if the helmets are not delivered on time; that would pretty much disable one aircraft. hell now I know why the f-35 cost so much, it is like a hand made machine, just like a Ferrari.

If this jet is going to war, the helmet needs to be standard and work for all the pilots with some kind of adjustable settings. Would this thing protect the pilot eyes during an ejection? the visor looks delicate to me? has this thing been tested during an ejection? would it help to keep the pilot head in the right position like the primitive and heavy Russian helmets do?

I guess I'm the only one likes the first gen model.:doh:

 

If I understand USAF supply system, maybe the helmets will be issue to the pilots for the length of their carrier, meaning that any unit they go to they would use the same helmet, I believe they do this with some other pilot equipment. The only "costum" part is the shell, AFAIK, so like the JHMCS, all the avionics and added equipment would be standard.

 

About ordering parts for the helmet, it would be no different than ordering parts for the aircraft. If you can get parts for the helmet, you probably would not have parts for the aircraft, so you have more issues, my guess that is of course.

 

About the visors protecting the eyes, normal visors are just like safety glasses, they don't have to be thick to protect the eyes. I guess it would be no different than normal helmet visors. Also I do not think the helmet helps keep the pilots head in any position, at least no helmet I have ever seen. they just protect from impact, provide a place for headset, a way to attach oxygen mask and now, provide information to the pilot

 

Of course, I have no special insight nor knowledge on the subject. My guess is as good as any.

[LaRata]

More News ...

 

" THE massive Joint Strike Fighter project is going to be delayed and cost more, the US Deputy Secretary of Defence Bill Lynn says.

 

But Mr Lynn could not say by how much the cost overruns and delays would increase the price tag for the Australian government, which in November committed $3 billion to buy an initial batch of 14 yet-to-be-completed F-35 warplanes. Australia plans eventually to purchase 100 of the fifth-generation stealth warplanes at a cost of about $16 billion.

 

“The development was originally projected to last an additional 30 months, we think with the additional test aircraft it will be closer to a delay of about 12 or 13 months but I can't give you the cost numbers,” Mr Lynn said today during the official opening of a $300 million shipbuilding precinct in South Australia.

"

 

 

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/us-deputy-secretary-of-defence-bill-lynn-cant-put-price-on-f-35-warplanes/story-e6frg8yo-1225830626636

 

LaRata

Edited February 16, 2010 by LaRata
Update

[GGTharos]

Cost overruns for such projects are never a surprise ... I mean seriously, why aren't they just expected?

[topol-m]

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4505009&c=AME&s=AIR

[Pilotasso]

Its been like 7 years since the demonstartor shifted to full development after the pentagons choice over the X35. So given so little time, I think 1 or 2 years delay is very small comparatively speaking.

[mvsgas]

Check this out

About 8,000 Air Force pilots will be custom fitted for the helmet and each visor will be custom

cut. (U.S. Air Force photo/Lance Cheung)

 

The shell of the new F-35 Lightning II helmet is made of a lightweight composite of carbon

fiber. The woven mesh material houses the wiring harness that links the pilot to the aircraft

through cameras, projectors and night vision equipment. (U.S. Air Force photo/Lance Cheung)

 

photo illustration by G. Patrick Harris

 

Check this article

http://www.airmanonline.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123184171

[Mnemonic]

Check this out

...

About 8,000 Air Force pilots will be custom fitted for the helmet and each visor will be custom

cut. (U.S. Air Force photo/Lance Cheung)

 

The shell of the new F-35 Lightning II helmet is made of a lightweight composite of carbon

fiber. The woven mesh material houses the wiring harness that links the pilot to the aircraft

through cameras, projectors and night vision equipment. (U.S. Air Force photo/Lance Cheung)

 

photo illustration by G. Patrick Harris

 

Check this article

http://www.airmanonline.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123184171

 

Oh my, it's like watching porn :D

Thanks!

[Mugatu]

DASS. Best SA you'll ever get on a plane ... seeing right through your own plane's fuselage.

 

 

Doesn't that need TV/IR cams facing all directions , I can't see any hanging of it?

[Maximus_G]

Doesn't that need TV/IR cams facing all directions , I can't see any hanging of it?

 

F-35 DAS

[Mugatu]

F-35's forward-looking infrared sensor :P

[GGTharos]

And you aren't going to see any hanging off of it. They're nicely set into the fuselage. Six cameras for SA ownage :)

[Krippz]

The F-35's DAS system is INSANE! Any word on the UK backing out from purchasing 35's? A few of my British sim-buddies said that they we're.

[Pilotasso]

No, the brits are still in. There were rumours but those were aimed at making pressure on the americans concerning tech transfer.

 

Its always like this on such deals.

[Mugatu]

Think we start a poll on how late the jet will be, closest wins a copy of FC 10.0 :)