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F-5E-3 rework?


riojax

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This module is showing their age and now don't look like first day. Maybe a little rework can be made.

I think that the first task can be rework the RWR logic and the AN/APQ-159(V)-3 using the new radar API and then show us a real representation of an analog radar and not a semi-digital block based one, this for sure worth the invested work. Also some bug-fixing is needed.

Later better textures, PBR, etc. (I think that the 3D model is good enough for today's)


Edited by riojax
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As far as I am aware, ED is doing F-5 overhaul, regarding textures, PBR and probably some 3D improvements. I am not sure, however, when it will be released, since they have a lot of modules to both release/finish EA stage and to upgrade to current standards. I am not sure about anything regarding re-working radar or adding features to F-5. I don't think that was mentioned, but I can be wrong. I remember F-5 update was reported "on progress" last year though, so maybe this year we will see it released, or at least some info about current state.

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21 hours ago, unlikely_spider said:

There is some texture mod in the user files section that is pretty good, I think.

Yep, some pretty good ones available:

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3305829/

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3306823/

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3316694/

 

 

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On 1/18/2022 at 10:56 AM, Fairey Gannet said:

As far as I am aware, ED is doing F-5 overhaul, regarding textures, PBR and probably some 3D improvements. I am not sure, however, when it will be released, since they have a lot of modules to both release/finish EA stage and to upgrade to current standards. I am not sure about anything regarding re-working radar or adding features to F-5. I don't think that was mentioned, but I can be wrong. I remember F-5 update was reported "on progress" last year though, so maybe this year we will see it released, or at least some info about current state.

That would be welcome news.  I had not heard this.... and its been the neglected step child of ED's modules for years until they decided to make wings rip off hilariously last patch....

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1 hour ago, DoorMouse said:

That would be welcome news.  I had not heard this.... and its been the neglected step child of ED's modules for years until they decided to make wings rip off hilariously last patch....

Here, F-5 (external model and PBR textures) are stated as "on progress". 
 


And here - model showcase, F-5 in the works among them.

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I know guys, I would also want to see some more essential changes. Sadly, there is nothing mentioned about them. Maybe they will be implemented, since keeping older modules on par with the new ones would include some changes that are not just updated visuals. That isn't a fact, though, it is just opinion, and I can be in the wrong, so keep that in mind. 🙂 

About AI FM, I know that more realistic AI behaviour and FM actually is something that is worked on, so the changes most likely will include F-5 as well. But that is not F-5 specific, just all AI in general.

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Am 19.1.2022 um 17:17 schrieb DoorMouse:

until they decided to make wings rip off hilariously last patch....

Was wondering as well why the wings fall off pretty easy when doing slightly more dynamic instant turns. 
 

Does anyone know if the current behaviour is in fact correct and that the plane has to be handled with that much care?

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12 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Was wondering as well why the wings fall off pretty easy when doing slightly more dynamic instant turns. 
 

Does anyone know if the current behaviour is in fact correct and that the plane has to be handled with that much care?

It is not correct. However, ED has been trending towards unrealistic structural failure modeling in other modules (F/A18) as a method to deter high G maneuver.

It is a sad development. There is no logical end to modifying real world characteristics in pursuit of “correct” gameplay. 

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Would love to see some upgrade similar to what Brazil did (A2A Refuelling kit & AIM-9M ability). I think these would not be too much to ask. Unlikely items would be some kind of avionics upgrades (2nd radio, digital display of some kind with waypoint capability, or a HUD)

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On 1/23/2022 at 12:27 PM, =475FG= Dawger said:

However, ED has been trending towards unrealistic structural failure modeling in other modules (F/A18) as a method to deter high G maneuver.

 

More realistic damage model is on progress - warbirds got it first, and now it will be adapted for jets. Perhaps what we got in F-5 is somewhat stop-gap solution, and problem will be solved with an introduction of new DM?

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1 hour ago, Fairey Gannet said:

More realistic damage model is on progress - warbirds got it first, and now it will be adapted for jets. Perhaps what we got in F-5 is somewhat stop-gap solution, and problem will be solved with an introduction of new DM?

I sincerely hope you are right.

However, the damage modeling in DCS warbirds is godawful bad.

Not the structural failure modeling.

I never really encountered any issues along those lines in the warbirds.

Other aspects are game-breaking bad.

The 475th is, historically, a WWII Fighter Group both in reality and virtually.

We gave up on DCS warbirds because of the damage modeling issues.

I would love to believe everything about DCS damage modeling is a work in progress and someday soon it will all be corrected to something resembling reality.

Ever hopeful.

 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, =475FG= Dawger said:

I sincerely hope you are right.

However, the damage modeling in DCS warbirds is godawful bad.

Not the structural failure modeling.

I never really encountered any issues along those lines in the warbirds.

Other aspects are game-breaking bad.

The 475th is, historically, a WWII Fighter Group both in reality and virtually.

We gave up on DCS warbirds because of the damage modeling issues.

I would love to believe everything about DCS damage modeling is a work in progress and someday soon it will all be corrected to something resembling reality.

Ever hopeful.

Yes, I didn't said precisely if it will be damage model or structural failure modeling, but that is because I don't know that. I only remember, that in some interview upgrade to DM was mentioned - first for warbirds and then for hairdryers. And it is on Silver Dragon's roadmap as "on progress", some time by now in fact. As for interview - I can misremember, and if I said something not true to facts - no ill will here, just plain stupid. 😉 But I think I got it right - damage model for WW2 was released with 2.5.6 version in 2020, now jets are being worked on.

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7 minutes ago, Fairey Gannet said:

Yes, I didn't said precisely if it will be damage model or structural failure modeling, but that is because I don't know that. I only remember, that in some interview upgrade to DM was mentioned - first for warbirds and then for hairdryers. And it is on Silver Dragon's roadmap as "on progress", some time by now in fact. As for interview - I can misremember, and if I said something not true to facts - no ill will here, just plain stupid. 😉 But I think I got it right - damage model for WW2 was released with 2.5.6 version in 2020, now jets are being worked on.

I consider damage modeling and structural failure modeling to be inextricably tied together.

Well, I hope they would be inextricably tied together.

Damage to the structure should influence its structural failures.

They don't seem to work that way right now at the moment. Again, maybe someday.

I also recall the warbirds receiving the new and " improved " damage modeling.

Disappointing so far, to say the least.

I hope the warbirds are still being worked on 'cause they are certainly not finished WRT damage modeling.

I would love to fly DCS warbirds again PvP.


Edited by =475FG= Dawger
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2 hours ago, =475FG= Dawger said:

I consider damage modeling and structural failure modeling to be inextricably tied together.

Well, I hope they would be inextricably tied together.

Damage to the structure should influence its structural failures.

They don't seem to work that way right now at the moment. Again, maybe someday.

I also recall the warbirds receiving the new and " improved " damage modeling.

Disappointing so far, to say the least.

I hope the warbirds are still being worked on 'cause they are certainly not finished WRT damage modeling.

I would love to fly DCS warbirds again PvP.

 

I don't own any props in DCS, just Cold War vacuum cleaners, so I can't speak about DM model from my experience, sadly. And I don't know much about DM modeling, like you said though - damage model probably is tied with structural. That makes sense. All I could really gather is what I posted. If I can speculate, combining all of that, I would come to the following conclusion: F-5 will be reworked, including PBR, textures and model. Those probably will be tied to mentioned damage model to the jets - it makes sense to do 3D work with new ways of falling apart in mind. Since DM model will affect AI airplanes as well, new AI FM will have to incorporate that. Besides that, F-5 cockpit is still looking decent, but fresh coat of paint won't hurt. I didn't stumbled upon anything else regarding F-5. In one interview with Waggs, he stated, that F-5 is one of their favourites and there is intention to revisit it at some point. Will those changes be considered "revisiting", or perhaps some more serious upgrades, like radar/RWR will be included - remains to be seen.


Edited by Fairey Gannet
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10 hours ago, Fairey Gannet said:

I don't own any props in DCS, just Cold War vacuum cleaners, so I can't speak about DM model from my experience, sadly. And I don't know much about DM modeling, like you said though - damage model probably is tied with structural. That makes sense. All I could really gather is what I posted. If I can speculate, combining all of that, I would come to the following conclusion: F-5 will be reworked, including PBR, textures and model. Those probably will be tied to mentioned damage model to the jets - it makes sense to do 3D work with new ways of falling apart in mind. Since DM model will affect AI airplanes as well, new AI FM will have to incorporate that. Besides that, F-5 cockpit is still looking decent, but fresh coat of paint won't hurt. I didn't stumbled upon anything else regarding F-5. In one interview with Waggs, he stated, that F-5 is one of their favourites and there is intention to revisit it at some point. Will those changes be considered "revisiting", or perhaps some more serious upgrades, like radar/RWR will be included - remains to be seen.

 

Things I'd love about the F-5E. A picture speaks a thousand words. I also want a new high definition 3D model with new textures in 4k and PBR.

1275950371_5a86945b79_3k.jpg

F-5EM-probe-de-reabastecimento-em-voo-co


 

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ED has MAC underway, which includes the F-5. They can't possibly afford to release a new product with obsolete graphics and a cockpit geometry that's wrong in VR. This has been stated before in previous threads about this topic.

Also, ED stated themselves they will do exactly that (I believe it was in either the 2020 or 2021 roadmap).

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/28/2022 at 7:12 PM, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

ED has MAC underway, which includes the F-5. They can't possibly afford to release a new product with obsolete graphics and a cockpit geometry that's wrong in VR. This has been stated before in previous threads about this topic.

Also, ED stated themselves they will do exactly that (I believe it was in either the 2020 or 2021 roadmap).

Yeah, I suspect that many of an older ED modules will be upgraded simultaneously with MAC release, in terms of graphics, models cockpit geometry. I guess that is the reason for lack of visual upgrades since last 5 years - I remember MAC's trailer stating "This autumn!" back in 2018. 😛 Though if those visuals were ready back then, now they need overhaul anyway.

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59 minutes ago, Fairey Gannet said:

Though if those visuals were ready back then, now they need overhaul anyway.

Indeed: technology keeps moving forward, and the F-14 set a new bar for DCS.

Even the Hornet’s cockpit looks outdated compared to today's standards…

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20 minutes ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

Indeed: technology keeps moving forward, and the F-14 set a new bar for DCS.

Even the Hornet’s cockpit looks outdated compared to today's standards…

Hah, that is true! Something tells me, though, it wasn't really ready back then. It has been 4 years, well 3,5. If MAC didn't surfaced during that period... Well, MAC trailer video is locked away, I think that speak volumes. Personally though, I am more interested in technical changes (regardless of module), like radar simulation, IFF codes, FM's etc.

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