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VR or not VR, that is the question!


Lee1
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I'm considering getting a VR headset.  I'm sure it will make dogfighting easier as manipulating the view is a bit of a faff on when concentrating on flying and fighting.  What I can't figure out is how do I use the keyboard for the non-hotas functions with my eyes covered by the VR Headseet?  Do VR headsets come with some sort of hand tracker so I can reach out and put the gear (EG) down?

 

Also, what would you guys recommend?

TIA

 

Lee

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Without knowing your system specs and how much you are willing to pay, I think its a difficult question to answer. 

One thing I definately recommend is deep pockets. 

MSI Tomahawk X570 Mobo, Ryzen 5600X undervolted on Artic Freezer E34 Cooler, RTX3080 FE, 32GB (2x16GB Dual Ranked) GSkil 3600 CL16 Trident Neo RAM, 2X 4th Gen M2 SSDs, Corsair RM850x PSU, Lancool 215 Case. 

Gear: MFG Crosswinds, Warthog Throttle, Virpil T50CM gen 1 stick, TIR5, Cougar MFD (OOA), D-link H7/B powered USB 2.0 Hub all strapped to a butchered Wheel stand pro, Cushion to bang head on, wall to scream at.  

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Most VR-headsets come with tracked controllers, which you can use to flip all the switches in the cockpit, though I found using a mouse just behind my throttle to be much easier to handle. 
There are also solutions of hand trackers/gloves, but I have no experience with those.

Another good option many are using is software like voice attack where you can just give audio commands to your computer to raise or lower the landing gear for example.

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I'm a helicopter guy, but switching to VR made a very deep difference in immersion and sensation. Primarily because it's 3D, and that's something a monitor can't do for you.

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By simply mapping mouse buttons to a HOTAS and just looking at a cockpit control in VR it is remarkably easy to do most stuff you would use a keyboard for. Stuff you might not want to be looking around the cockpit whilst operating can be mapped to HOTAS and button boxes and in a short time with muscle memory can quickly be operated without fumbling around. Or as mentioned use voice controls.

I am not a fan of using a mouse or VR controllers but that is a preference thing.

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As above, I bind L&R mouse and mwheel up and down to a 4-way hat, activated with the warthog stick paddle as a modifier switch within DCS.  I also have a leap motion controller which actually works pretty well now but for some controls it just doesn't work too well so use the VR mouse instead (also note that leap motion isn't compatible with all modules).

If you enable VR mouse and leave the cursor centralised on your view, it should autohide after a few seconds, to unhide it simply right click and it should pop up where you left it and its movement is slaved to your head.

Flying in VR is far more immersive if you have the hardware required to drive it.

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2 hours ago, Lee1 said:

I'm considering getting a VR headset.  I'm sure it will make dogfighting easier as manipulating the view is a bit of a faff on when concentrating on flying and fighting.  What I can't figure out is how do I use the keyboard for the non-hotas functions with my eyes covered by the VR Headseet?  Do VR headsets come with some sort of hand tracker so I can reach out and put the gear (EG) down?

 

Also, what would you guys recommend?

TIA

 

Lee

Once you play VR there is no going back to 2D.  Can be expensive. I was running it on low settings with GTX 1070 though before I upgraded my GPU. 

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43 minutes ago, Spectrum48k said:

Once you play VR there is no going back to 2D. 

sorry, but I'd like to disagree. For some(!) people there is no going back. I like flying in VR from time to time, but it will take a while until visual fidelity will be on par with 2D (given both use the amount of computing power) - and at least for now I prefer 2D over 3D if I actually planning on doing something (other than enjoying the flight).

So, this is certainly only a single subjective opinion. But it kind of shows that the above statement isn't universally true.

Edit: On Topic. I use the mouse for clicking stuff in the cockpit. Except for Hotas Stuff. I only wished the cursor would disappear faster....


Edited by Hiob
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47 minutes ago, Spectrum48k said:

Once you play VR there is no going back to 2D.  Can be expensive. I was running it on low settings with GTX 1070 though before I upgraded my GPU. 

I have to kindly disagree. VR has a big wow factor, but over time there are too many disadvantages. Uncomfortable, sweaty, "blind". 

I really like the much better overview you have with a monitor / simpit setup. Extra monitor/PC for checklists, easy to find all buttons on keyboards/HOTAS without fumbling. 
VR is awesome, but when flying for hours on end, it is getting tiring. My flying buddy is also prefering monitor over his VR when doing CO-OP.

As for pure immersion I am sure VR is much better, but as a total package I prefer monitor setup. Did I mention the huge performance hit, flying in VR?

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Just now, Lee1 said:

Thanks for your replies, folks. Food for thought!

 

Rgds

 

Lee

Lot of folk telling you the water is warm but none are asking if you can swim. DCS is currently a monster performance wise. You'll need a good (read expensive) system to run VR even half well. I think the price of admission starts somewhere around an 8th or 9th Gen I5 K chip with a 1080TI. And that just about gets you in the door.   

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Gear: MFG Crosswinds, Warthog Throttle, Virpil T50CM gen 1 stick, TIR5, Cougar MFD (OOA), D-link H7/B powered USB 2.0 Hub all strapped to a butchered Wheel stand pro, Cushion to bang head on, wall to scream at.  

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12 minutes ago, Hiob said:

sorry, but I'd like to disagree. For some(!) people there is no going back. I like flying in VR from time to time, but it will take a while until visual fidelity will be on par with 2D (given both use the amount of computing power) - and at least for now I prefer 2D over 3D if I actually planning on doing something (other than enjoying the flight).

So, this is certainly only a single subjective opinion. But it kind of shows that the above statement isn't universally true.

Edit: On Topic. I use the mouse for clicking stuff in the cockpit. Except for Hotas Stuff. I only wished the cursor would disappear faster....

 

 

4 minutes ago, MIghtymoo said:

I have to kindly disagree. VR has a big wow factor, but over time there are too many disadvantages. Uncomfortable, sweaty, "blind". 

I really like the much better overview you have with a monitor / simpit setup. Extra monitor/PC for checklists, easy to find all buttons on keyboards/HOTAS without fumbling. 
VR is awesome, but when flying for hours on end, it is getting tiring. My flying buddy is also prefering monitor over his VR when doing CO-OP.

As for pure immersion I am sure VR is much better, but as a total package I prefer monitor setup. Did I mention the huge performance hit, flying in VR?

They'll be coming for you - Pitch forks in hand. Staggering towards you like be-goggled victims of some alien head crab invasion. Trying to spot you at a distance whilst working out why you are only appearing in one eye.... 

Apart from performance my main reason for not going VR is that I trust neither my lad or my wife.......

MSI Tomahawk X570 Mobo, Ryzen 5600X undervolted on Artic Freezer E34 Cooler, RTX3080 FE, 32GB (2x16GB Dual Ranked) GSkil 3600 CL16 Trident Neo RAM, 2X 4th Gen M2 SSDs, Corsair RM850x PSU, Lancool 215 Case. 

Gear: MFG Crosswinds, Warthog Throttle, Virpil T50CM gen 1 stick, TIR5, Cougar MFD (OOA), D-link H7/B powered USB 2.0 Hub all strapped to a butchered Wheel stand pro, Cushion to bang head on, wall to scream at.  

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3 hours ago, hannibal said:

if u never done VR, you will have to do a little bit each day till you get used to VR

search for a term called "VR legs"

if you try to VR for the first time for long periods, you will feel sick

Not true, i have never been or felt sick while using vr.

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7 minutes ago, Razor68 said:

Not true, i have never been or felt sick while using vr.

this point is extremely subjective.

I didn't have vertigo playing the flight sims from the start, however racing sims gave me a pretty uneasy feeling, My brother/dad was the other way around, no vertigo while racing, yet an extreme one whilst flying.

 

@Lee1 - if you ever decide to jump in to VR make sure to add a vibration device (transducer), aka as "bass shaker", under the seat. It'll provide a relief for vertigo by reducing the visual/physical feedback disconnect between your eyes and the inner ear.

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6 minutes ago, peachmonkey said:

this point is extremely subjective.

I didn't have vertigo playing the flight sims from the start, however racing sims gave me a pretty uneasy feeling, My brother/dad was the other way around, no vertigo while racing, yet an extreme one whilst flying.

 

@Lee1 - if you ever decide to jump in to VR make sure to add a vibration device (transducer), aka as "bass shaker", under the seat. It'll provide a relief for vertigo by reducing the visual/physical feedback disconnect between your eyes and the inner ear.

Well i know, some people get motion/sea sick some don't, but the person talked like everyone got sick. I also simrace, but i usually drive without vr cause i don't need it there, vr dosent affect me there either. 


Edited by Razor68

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I've never suffered from VR sickness, but I did however get eyestrain after the first couple of days but that was with an old Oculus dk2 so resolution was less than a 1/4 of the G2 I have now. Been fine since then unless I'm very tired.


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 VR! Made the transition with the F***ulus CV1 and never went back, with the exception of mission building etc. 

One does develop VR-legs over time. At first I couldn‘t stand it for more than 15-30 minutes and was left somewhat disorientd afterwards, but now 2hr+ sessions are no real problem.

Using a HP Reverb G1.

Racing games are a different thing for me though, very demanding

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1 hour ago, upupandaway said:

Racing games are a different thing for me though, very demanding

in Dirt Rally there are 2 VR settings:

1) stabilize the horizon (horizon lock)

2) stabilize on the inside of the car (car lock)

I found that playing on 2 is similar to flight sims and I have no problems with vertigo. But as soon as it's set to Horizon I get some nasty vomit inducing calls...

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8 hours ago, Lee1 said:

What I can't figure out is how do I use the keyboard for the non-hotas functions with my eyes covered by the VR Headseet? 

Try to put as much as you can on the HOTAS, use modifiers. Some keys are easy to find: space bar, arrows, ~, backspace, esc, insert-to-PgDn sixpack, numpad, F key groups.

The best solution is of course 1:1 simpit but whatever controls you have beside standard HOTAS, mouse and keyboard, the better.

VR sickness is individual thing - I personally never felt it. And some say they do miss their crystal clear 4K views and did went back to 2D - I am not one of them.

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2 hours ago, peachmonkey said:

in Dirt Rally there are 2 VR settings:

1) stabilize the horizon (horizon lock)

2) stabilize on the inside of the car (car lock)

I found that playing on 2 is similar to flight sims and I have no problems with vertigo. But as soon as it's set to Horizon I get some nasty vomit inducing calls...

Oh, I didn’t know. Perhaps I‘ll give it another go then. I kind of got used to flying in VR, but driving makes me wanna throw up every time…

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5 hours ago, peachmonkey said:

 

@Lee1 - if you ever decide to jump in to VR make sure to add a vibration device(transducer), aka as "bass shaker", under the seat. It'll provide a relief for vertigo by reducing the visual/physical feedback disconnect between your eyes and the inner ear.

where would I find such please?

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