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Mosquito Handling, what happened?


Bozon
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Anyone else feels that the Mosquito handles like a drift car on the ground and like a Lancaster in the air?

On the ground I am drifting in sideways power slides like its Tokyo drift and when the power is on and rolling down the lanes every touch of the breaks brings the tail up, even at ridiculously low speeds. In the air the Mosquito has crazy yaw after takeoff and then with a bit of speed is a pig in maneuvering - no control authority in all axes. It is very far from what it was when EA started, worse in every way.

Maybe this is how it should be, maybe my stick setup is somehow FUBAR, I dunno. I was unable to play for a while so I am not sure if this happened before or after the Christmas patch.

How does your Mosquito handle lately?

“Mosquitoes fly, but flies don’t Mosquito” :pilotfly:

- Geoffrey de Havilland.

 

... well, he could have said it!

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I have to agree.

There seems to be no resistance by the wheels to any lateral movement.  It is like the runway surface is ice.

If you try really hard it is possibly to take off with the aircraft pointing about 90° off the direction of travel.  :biggrin:

There are some big problems with the undercarriage dynamics. My particular whinge being the excessive pitch up moment on touchdown.

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11 hours ago, Terry Dactil said:

I have to agree.

There seems to be no resistance by the wheels to any lateral movement.  It is like the runway surface is ice.

If you try really hard it is possibly to take off with the aircraft pointing about 90° off the direction of travel.  :biggrin:

Low tire friction can also explain the tendencies to slide sideways during takeoff runs - this is not the usual tail dragger swing.

“Mosquitoes fly, but flies don’t Mosquito” :pilotfly:

- Geoffrey de Havilland.

 

... well, he could have said it!

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While I didn't have any issues flying and "driving" the Mosquito after the patch, I do feel like the brakes fill like instantly compared to before the patch.

Sliding around on the ground is not limited to the Mosquito though. I remember there was once upon a time a patch that reduced the friction of tyres for Warbirds. Before that patch, you could frequently tip over in a 109. After the patch, you were just drifting around on the tarmac with barely any tipping over. (Take it with a grain of salt though since it was more than 3 years ago and it is pure speculation since ED is not really transparent when it comes to showing changes) https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/185761-investigating-ground-physics-bug/

 

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Nothing changed here. Taxi T/O and landing same as before, but I'll keep checking.

Brakes were locking solid from about 2 patches ago, lifting tail with the slightest touch and then nosing over, something a Mosquito doesn't do. Noted by several people.

I cured it with a work round. Limit brake pressure to 40 lb.

 

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Tire friction is a DCS-wide issue. The Mi-24 slips around like it's ice skating too. On the opposite end of the spectrum you've got the jets that won't taxi until you hit 70-80% throttle. 

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19 hours ago, Holbeach said:

I cured it with a work round. Limit brake pressure to 40 lb.

How did you manage to limit the pressure?

System :-

i7-7820X, ASUS ROG Strix X229, 32GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3600MHz, 11GB Nvidia Geforce 1080Ti, 1x 500GB Samsung 850 EVO, 1x 1TB Samsung 850 EVO, 1x 500GB Samsung 960 EVO M.2, Windows 10. VPC WarBRD Base with HOTAS Warthog Stick and Throttle, Saitek combat rudder pedals, Oculus Rift S.

 

 

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1 hour ago, bart said:

How did you manage to limit the pressure?

I stopped using a button to operate the brake lever, which became unusable due to the drums locking solid and changed to a slider, which meant I could reduce lever travel in the editor.

With 40 lb pressure, I can use full braking without any chance of a brake locking and causing a nose over.

 

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7 hours ago, Holbeach said:

I stopped using a button to operate the brake lever, which became unusable due to the drums locking solid and changed to a slider, which meant I could reduce lever travel in the editor.

With 40 lb pressure, I can use full braking without any chance of a brake locking and causing a nose over.

 

..

I managed to get this working great, what I did was assign the wheel brake axis to one of my pedals, then went into axis tune and turned the slider option on and set the y-saturation to 40 and invert the pedal so it's off when the pedal is not depressed. It works great. I get 40lbs on the brake gauge with maximum pedal depression. Gone are the days of going from 0% to 100% brake instantly and vigorously tapping the lever on my stick to get the brakes to work.

Going back to Bozon's (OP) question above, I haven't noticed anything unusual in the handling post update. Found a few fixes implemented that weren't on the changelog but otherwise no handling/taxi issues my end. She handled just great tonight on a MP server. Those rockets are great!!!.


Edited by bart

System :-

i7-7820X, ASUS ROG Strix X229, 32GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3600MHz, 11GB Nvidia Geforce 1080Ti, 1x 500GB Samsung 850 EVO, 1x 1TB Samsung 850 EVO, 1x 500GB Samsung 960 EVO M.2, Windows 10. VPC WarBRD Base with HOTAS Warthog Stick and Throttle, Saitek combat rudder pedals, Oculus Rift S.

 

 

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18 hours ago, Nealius said:

Tire friction is a DCS-wide issue. The Mi-24 slips around like it's ice skating too. On the opposite end of the spectrum you've got the jets that won't taxi until you hit 70-80% throttle. 

I suspect it’s a quick and dirty solution to complaints that the aircraft tip over too easily. Lateral motion leads to sliding rather than tipping over, remember the early release Spitfire. It’s not just the WW2 aircraft that are Tokyo driftable, it’s everything it seems. There are videos online of the Spit and 109 sliding all over the place. In cockpit it feels OK, it’s only when you view what’s happening from external that you realise how crazy it is.

As someone who dabbles with racing sims I accept that tyre performance modelling is a huge and complex area though, and DCS is a flight sim.


Edited by Mogster
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It’s less that and more that the lateral sliding is so much more detectable in RL via the butt cheeks that it was making the DCS tail drafters artificially difficult to handle; they decided to allow a bit more lateral slipping to compensate for the lack of feedback. 

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Hi

 

Having played with it for a few hours (and basically given up), I share the view that the handling is completely wrong. Not withstanding the tail wheel doesn't even move properly, a mozzie should easily be able to turn though 90 degrees inside its own wingspan, hence the reason why De Havilland didn't equip it with differential brakes - it simply isn't required.

Attempting to take off is practically comical, especially on external views - with the thing going sideways rather than forwards.

Hopefully it'll be fixed, although I'm not going to hold my breath.

 

All the best

Timmeh

 

 


Edited by itstimmeh
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On 12/25/2021 at 9:02 PM, Mogster said:

As someone who dabbles with racing sims I accept that tyre performance modelling is a huge and complex area though, and DCS is a flight sim.

 

True, although it really isn't rocket science to model the turning moments of a taildragger.

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On 12/25/2021 at 8:23 PM, bart said:

I managed to get this working great, what I did was assign the wheel brake axis to one of my pedals, then went into axis tune and turned the slider option on and set the y-saturation to 40 and invert the pedal so it's off when the pedal is not depressed. It works great. I get 40lbs on the brake gauge with maximum pedal depression. Gone are the days of going from 0% to 100% brake instantly and vigorously tapping the lever on my stick to get the brakes to work.

Going back to Bozon's (OP) question above, I haven't noticed anything unusual in the handling post update. Found a few fixes implemented that weren't on the changelog but otherwise no handling/taxi issues my end. She handled just great tonight on a MP server. Those rockets are great!!!.

 

I tried the rockets today.

 

Using Eastchurch, Channel Map. 8 rockets, fuel 100%. Taxi and T/O perfectly normal and easily controllable.

Actually hitting my target ship is a problem, so I'm practicing with a RL profile.

 

Dive from 2000' @ 45 deg. Guns @ 1500' to 1000'. Rockets @ 500' using a button on the throttle.

Great fun.

 

..

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6 hours ago, itstimmeh said:

Hi

 

Having played with it for a few hours (and basically given up), I share the view that the handling is completely wrong. Not withstanding the tail wheel doesn't even move properly, a mozzie should easily be able to turn though 90 degrees inside its own wingspan, hence the reason why De Havilland didn't equip it with differential brakes - it simply isn't required.

Attempting to take off is practically comical, especially on external views - with the thing going sideways rather than forwards.

Hopefully it'll be fixed, although I'm not going to hold my breath.

 

All the best

Timmeh

 

 

 

It handles beautifully.

Check tailwheel in de brief. It might be broken.

It can turn inside its own wingspan.

It does have differential brakes.

My take offs are perfectly straight. Maybe it's you.

 

..

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..

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4 hours ago, Holbeach said:

It handles beautifully.

Check tailwheel in de brief. It might be broken.

It can turn inside its own wingspan.

It does have differential brakes.

My take offs are perfectly straight. Maybe it's you.

 

..

Probably.

Thanks for your help.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I have similar feelings to many in this thread.

I'm seeing a slightly different issue as well, when taking off the aircraft wants to pitch up massively. I also see this in flight when at about 180mph (with a light load). I believe I have appropriate trim set prior to take off roll commencing so I'm not quite sure what is going on, or if it's just my piloting? It wasn't like this at first release.

Edit: Please ignore the above, it was due to a badly behaving hotas button making the elevator trim go to max nose up.


Edited by bell_rj
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PC specs:

 

Rig specs: i5-10600k @4.8Ghz. 32GB RAM. MSI GTX 1070ti. 27" 1440p G-Sync monitor. Samsung M2 drive.

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On 12/25/2021 at 12:23 PM, bart said:

I managed to get this working great, what I did was assign the wheel brake axis to one of my pedals, then went into axis tune and turned the slider option on and set the y-saturation to 40 and invert the pedal so it's off when the pedal is not depressed. It works great. I get 40lbs on the brake gauge with maximum pedal depression. Gone are the days of going from 0% to 100% brake instantly and vigorously tapping the lever on my stick to get the brakes to work.

Going back to Bozon's (OP) question above, I haven't noticed anything unusual in the handling post update. Found a few fixes implemented that weren't on the changelog but otherwise no handling/taxi issues my end. She handled just great tonight on a MP server. Those rockets are great!!!.

 

Could you show us a screen shot of your "Axis Tune" page. I put a hell of a curve on mine too. But it still kicks the tail up when I touch it too hard. 

Sempre Fortis

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1 hour ago, Mogster said:

From Lyman’s “Jail Busters” It seems the Mosquito tailwheel mechanism was quite fragile in rl.

This just gave me an idea - maybe I sometimes damage the tail wheel on taxi because of the over-sensitive brakes that lift the tail at the lightest touch? Then on the takeoff run the damaged wheel is modeled to not roll straight and causes the wild skids I sometimes get?

Hmmm…. 🤔

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“Mosquitoes fly, but flies don’t Mosquito” :pilotfly:

- Geoffrey de Havilland.

 

... well, he could have said it!

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On 12/27/2021 at 1:19 AM, itstimmeh said:

Not withstanding the tail wheel doesn't even move properly, a mozzie should easily be able to turn though 90 degrees inside its own wingspan, hence the reason why De Havilland didn't equip it with differential brakes - it simply isn't required.
 

How will it turn at low speeds on the ground without differential brakes? It doesn't have toe brakes if that is what you mean as the mechanism for differential brakes was linked to the rudder similar to other British planes of that era.

It will easily turn inside its own wingspan using the brake lever and rudder pedals and the free to rotate tailwheel. I am not sure what you are meaning?

The only issue I have the the Mosquito I resolved by building an analog brake, the implementation of a digital brake will always be a compromise but seems better done with the Spitfire which builds up pressure the longer the lever is held, whereas the Mosquito seems instantly full on.

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It used to be fun to take off in this bird and also a little challenging getting the trim right to take off, now its a pig to take off and I have stopped flying it, even the guy we fly with who's family business has restored one recently in NZ said its a lot hard than in it should be according to the pilots that have flown theirs also the center of gravity is quite tail heavy.

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I think they need to reduce the brake speed when using buttons ( I use the slider next to the two throttle of the Warthog and it works a little better).

Undercarriage seems too broad to turn like this in take-off even with exact same throttle and RPM on both axis.

I feel it is quiet too nose heavy at least on ground when you see it deeping at such little amount of brake at slow speed

Probably easy fix 

 

 


Edited by Tuturuu
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