CPG in Multiplayer?

[Raptor9]

37 minutes ago, Salvin49 said:

We should be able to enter as the front seater and just command the AI to start the aircraft for us though right?

That's not how the Hind works in multiplayer servers, so I'm assuming that won't be how the AH-64 works either. Multi-crew modules require a specific seat to be manned by a client before others.  In the UH-1, that's the pilot/right seat.  In the Hind, it's the Pilot-Commander/back seat.  You can't join another seat lower on the client slot list for that airframe without the primary slot being occupied by another person first; and once you get into that first seat, you can't switch seats in the multiplayer server environment.

In fact, if you are with a friend in a multicrew module, if whoever is occupying the primary client slot exits that aircraft back to the spectators screen or leaves the server, whoever is occupying the secondary client slot will be kicked back to spectators as well. So no, if the PLT cockpit is the primary client slot and the CPG station is the secondary, I would fully expect that you will have to occupy the rear seat in multiplayer.

Singleplayer is a whole different story on what is possible.  But I have no inside knowledge on how any of this will work out when the AH-64 module releases.  I would be more interested in how the George AI performs as the CPG because if you are flying alone in a multiplayer server, that will be how you will be operating.

[Bailey]

6 hours ago, Raptor9 said:

Keep in mind in those posts he only says "multi-seat", which does not equate to "multi-player".

The second post was with respect to online multiplayer.

 

3 hours ago, Raptor9 said:

..and once you get into that first seat, you can't switch seats in the multiplayer server environment.

You can in the Gaz and Mossie.

[unknown]

5 hours ago, Bailey said:

You can in the Gaz and Mossie.

Last time i flew the Mi-8 online you could switch between stations too(if my memories does not fail me), but that was some time ago(before Mi-24 EA release).

[Bailey]

1 hour ago, unknown said:

Last time i flew the Mi-8 online you could switch between stations too(if my memories does not fail me), but that was some time ago(before Mi-24 EA release).

Good point. It should still be able to do that. I know some people that would protest if it had changed

On the other hand, the Mi-8 is not a multi-crew aircraft (yet) so it wouldn’t be subjected to the “is it bugged or not” limitation discussed above. 

[Cathnan]

So what would be the best case scenario for the apache? CPG as primary slot and a helper button or command for the AI to start up the aircraft?

[Sabre_Ewan]

2 hours ago, Cathnan said:

So what would be the best case scenario for the apache? CPG as primary slot and a helper button or command for the AI to start up the aircraft?

The aircraft can be operated from the rear seat, you just can't fire the laser.

It cannot be operated purely from the front seat, because you'd never be able to start it up.

In my opinion (and that's all it is), the rear seat should be the primary one.

[kgillers3]

3 hours ago, Cathnan said:

So what would be the best case scenario for the apache? CPG as primary slot and a helper button or command for the AI to start up the aircraft?

You can probably expect primary seat to be back seat as primary, and what you want to do is going to determine where you sit. I think I would rather sit back for most of the stuff depending on what I’m trying to accomplish. It reaLly depends on how old George is as a gunner vs a pilot for me. 

Edited January 5, 2022 by kgillers3

[Preendog]

Ok, I got the solution if they decide to make pilot seat primary with no online switching:

Have a second computer to run DCS.  Connect, spawn a Apache, and occupy the pilot seat.

On main computer, join the same helicopter as the copilot-gunner.

You can now fly and shoot your Apache online by yourself.  For the low price of a second PC and second Apache licence.

[Salvin49]

I mean, its not a BAD option.  Just means I have to take my laptop back from my kid....  he can play minecraft on something else, not my problem.

[MrReynolds]

I guess I've been "spoiled" by the Gazelle and the Enemy Engaged series - - - I really do want to be able to hot swap between seats like in those cases.

I do not want to fly WITH other pilots in MP.  That's my choice and I know many many cherish the possibility of being in the same cab as another.  Using an AI buddy for "auto" targetting is not what I'm after, but I've been away from DCS for a bit and have a feeling I've banged this bad boy on the head previously in this thread so better shut my trap!! 

I'm not liking the idea of being limited to SP in the Apache - such is life I guess

 

 

[NeedzWD40]

8 hours ago, MrReynolds said:

Using an AI buddy for "auto" targetting is not what I'm after

Strictly curious here: do you have the Mi-24? If so, how do you handle aiming the missile sight while flying? I've tried to use the ministick on my throttle to aim while simultaneously flying in SP and it just doesn't work out. 99% of the time I'm relying on Petrovich to handle weapon aiming and front seat duties because the workload is just too high. How would you plan to handle the AH-64's front or backseat duties without any form of AI assistance?

I'm not against allowing seat jumping in MP nor forcing slots to be single player only, but I'd think that some form of AI -- whether it's an AP hold of some kind or an auto target function -- is necessary to operate the aircraft as a single person.

[kgillers3]

Everyone has different goals and intents, maybe the AH isn't for him, and that's ok. 

[fargo007]

The Mi-24's "Petrovich" has improved greatly in the past couple updates and keeps moving forward.  If "George" is as good or better, I think we're gonna be at least "okay" from the get go.

Even so, our time with the 24 has shown that both survivability and effectiveness go way up with two people in it, and I'd expect this to be true for the 64 as well. 

For stuff like the Mi-24 dropping dumb bombs, it's actually necessary to have two people. I dare say there could be some things in the 64 that will still cry out for multicrew, even with a pretty damn capable "George."

This argument could be made on workload alone based on what we've seen so far. 

[MrReynolds]

Hey all.

I'm thinking Gazelle.  

I fly in the right seat.  Navigate in the right seat then when I get into a combat situation, I get down low, auto hover and jump to the left seat.  Now I'm in combat mode.  Using the sights etc, but CAN ALSO FLY and move about when needed.  It's great.

With the Apache it should be simpler as there are better systems for targetting and setting up mark points from the pilot seat (HMD etc).  However, I would still like to, at any point "duck and cover" - jump into front seat and carefully use those sights for targetting, setting up shoot lists etc.

I don't want to rely on an AI to select targets, I want the challenge to find them myself.

I don't fly the Hind, but I can easilly target and fly with the A10 and Hornet.  Obviously not being so low it will be way simpler than down low in the Apache.

If I can hot swap in the Gazelle, I promise you I'll be able to do it in the Apache.

And yes - the AH is for me 

 

Edited January 7, 2022 by MrReynolds

[llOPPOTATOll]

Please allow us to switch between the Pilot and Gunner in multiplayer. It would greatly improve your capabilities when you are alone.

[MAXsenna]

I think I've read somewhere, that there are some technical limitations that prevent this. Hopefully, it will be resolved in the future. 

[ebabil]

I know most of the players fan of multicrew but, if you don't have a friend to share your cockpit, MC modules become very annoying in MP servers.

I experienced this with F-14 and UH-1. I always have rely on low IQ jester in my tomcat. I can not use co-pilot gunner in my huey. 

And no, I don't want to share my pit with an unknown random player.

So I really would like to be able to switch seats on MP servers. Actually this wish is valid for all multicrew modules

[WinterH]

Yeah I think this should at least be a mission editor option like "multi crew enabled/disabled" for individual aircraft put into the mission. I love multicrew in Hind, Huey, Tomcat. But I'd also like to be able to use other positions in a multiplayer session if we will not do multicrew. I get that it's hard to support both at the same time for same unit, hence the suggestion of enabling/disabling it for individual aircraft in mission design stage.

[Raptor9]

Reference this post by BigNewy.  From what they've said, technical limitations currently prevent this.

[Madman777]

If I'm playing single player - is there any major disadvantages to just doing everything in the CPG seat?   You can fly from there.  
 

the only thing I can think of is reduced visibility.   

[Raptor9]

6 minutes ago, Madman777 said:

the only thing I can think of is reduced visibility.   

The front seat actually has much better visibility than the backseat.  Nothing wrong with that plan at all.  Give George the controls when you need to, and take them back when you want.

When we get hold modes, it may be even easier.

[Madman777]

1 minute ago, Raptor9 said:

The front seat actually has much better visibility than the backseat.  Nothing wrong with that plan at all.  Give George the controls when you need to, and take them back when you want.

When we get hold modes, it may be even easier.

Good to hear.  Thanks.

[Caldero]

Hi

The major disadvantage is -when flying alone a dual cockpit bird- that you are not being very realistic and you are  missing 50% of the fun of sharing cockpit with a friend

if I had to fly alone with George IA I would take the pilot position, never CPG, 100% sure!

Regards!

Edited March 14, 2022 by Caldero

[davidrbarnette]

So as I understand, the Pilot owns the rockets... having said that, is there anything preventing the CPG from firing rockets, or can that be handled from the front as well?

[Raptor9]

3 minutes ago, davidrbarnette said:

So as I understand, the Pilot owns the rockets... having said that, is there anything preventing the CPG from firing rockets, or can that be handled from the front as well?

It can be done from the front as well.  The CPG can fly and shoot rockets from the front using the HMD, or have George steer the aircraft and the CPG shoot rockets using the TADS.

It's not that the pilot "owns" the rockets so much as the pilot typically is the one that fires them, since the pilot is typically flying the aircraft and the rockets require aiming the aircraft in azimuth and (to within acceptable parameters) in elevation.

Edited March 14, 2022 by Raptor9