Aircraft Takeoff Flight Model

[mytai01]

As a tower controller I see aircraft taking off 5 days a week for over 30 years. Something I've noticed with real aircraft, as opposed to flight simulators like DCS, is the smooth transition from departure roll to airborne. It seems that real aircraft have a bit more elevator/stab authority, and the tail comes alive sooner and smoother. So, what I'm asking for is a review of the take-off flight model for player controlled aircraft to see if it can be made better...

Edited November 24, 2021 by mytai01

[razo+r]

You are talking about AI, right?

 

 

[mytai01]

5 hours ago, razo+r said:

You are talking about AI, right?

 

 

Sorry, I wasn't clear. Several years ago, the modelling for player controlled aircraft was improved for takeoff handling. So, I'm asking for a review to see if it can be improved further. Perhaps improvements in computers will allow that.

[G.J.S]

If referring to player controlled aircraft, could it be down to sticks not having enough length to allow a smoothly gradual pull? The majority of sticks in use don't have enough length to allow finesse. 

If in reference to the AI, then that will be a core issue that ED will maybe be able to tweak.

[draconus]

16 hours ago, mytai01 said:

As a tower controller I see aircraft taking off 5 days a week for over 30 years. Something I've noticed with real aircraft, as opposed to flight simulators like DCS, is the smooth transition from departure roll to airborne. It seems that real aircraft have a bit more elevator/stab authority, and the tail comes alive sooner and smoother. So, what I'm asking for is a review of the take-off flight model for player controlled aircraft to see if it can be made better...

So, if it's not about AI, it needs more info, tracks, videos. Different modules will have different behavior, still it depends a lot on the pilot skills.

[Mars Exulte]

This is 100% down to the individual, their controls, and how well they configured those controls. ''Real pilots'' you see taking off are properly trained, follow ideal procedure, and have optimised controls for the task. Many DCS pilot have none of that.

[mytai01]

 

[AKULA_OPTIMUS]

7 hours ago, mytai01 said:

 

? You can perfectly do that with the Hornet in game, even more now that the ground effect has been fixed

Edited November 30, 2021 by AKULA_OPTIMUS

[Furiz]

8 hours ago, mytai01 said:

 

With proper take off trim setup you can do that with DCS hornet.

[SharpeXB]

23 hours ago, mytai01 said:

 

Thank you for posting such valuable information. Nobody here on the forum or Eagle Dynamics themselves has ever seen a Hornet take off. It’s amazing that you found such rare and previously unseen footage. 

[Dragon1-1]

As mentioned, people did that (and more) in DCS. Presumably, they practiced nearly as much as the real Blue Angels did to do it. That sort of thing is tricky in the real plane, too. 

The real stick can be a mixed blessing. It's more precise, but it's got a lot of travel and very high forces on it. This means rapidly swinging it from one side to the other takes quite a bit of muscle and a non-negligible amount of time. A force-sensing side stick like in the Viper is actually closer to controls that we use (at least, those of us who can afford a RealSimulator stick base and a Warthog grip to go with it), and some people say it's superior to the traditional center stick. That said, "some people" are in this case Viper drivers, and they say that about everything that their jet does differently.  

Edited December 3, 2021 by Dragon1-1

[BIGNEWY]

On 11/24/2021 at 6:30 PM, mytai01 said:

As a tower controller I see aircraft taking off 5 days a week for over 30 years. Something I've noticed with real aircraft, as opposed to flight simulators like DCS, is the smooth transition from departure roll to airborne. It seems that real aircraft have a bit more elevator/stab authority, and the tail comes alive sooner and smoother. So, what I'm asking for is a review of the take-off flight model for player controlled aircraft to see if it can be made better...

 

Sorry its seems you are generalising all aircraft and saying something is incorrect with the flight models? 
If you have evidence there is something wrong with a flight model we would need evidence, track replays and data to back it up for each aircraft you suspect is wrong. 

 

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

On 11/29/2021 at 8:50 PM, mytai01 said:

 

I've done this before. Multiple times. It takes some practice to get that smooth, but it is doable. The only issue has more to do with how DCS models rolling friction, which feels pretty exaggerated to my own experiences.

Edited December 3, 2021 by MiG21bisFishbedL

[rossmum]

The issue is that most DCS players are not actually pilots and have no training. Some of them are even actively opposed to following procedure. What you see players doing cannot be compared to trained and experienced pilots in real life - put a DCS player in an actual Hornet and you'll probably see a very abrupt tailstrike just like you do ingame.

[mytai01]

On 12/4/2021 at 1:36 PM, rossmum said:

The issue is that most DCS players are not actually pilots and have no training. Some of them are even actively opposed to following procedure. What you see players doing cannot be compared to trained and experienced pilots in real life - put a DCS player in an actual Hornet and you'll probably see a very abrupt tailstrike just like you do ingame.

Opposed to procedure??? For shame!