Jester Lantirn and dumb bombs

[alexej21]

Hi,

could we use jester lantirn in F14 similar way like TGP and CCRP in F16 for dumb bombs?

thx

[Whiskey11]

1 hour ago, alexej21 said:

Hi,

could we use jester lantirn in F14 similar way like TGP and CCRP in F16 for dumb bombs?

thx

The F-14 has a "CCRP" mode for dropping dumb bombs level which is called "Computer Target."  No need for the LANTIRN pod.  Computer Target also uses the TCS for initial target identification and it is scary accurate for dumb bombs in all sorts of deployment methods (lofting, high altitude level bombing, dive bombing, etc).  Couple of really good guides out there on how to use Computer Target mode.

There is also "Computer IP (Initial Point)" which could be used if you trust the INS... I don't... but others do.  Computer IP is effectively Computer Target, except when you designate your IP via the TCS, it automatically calculates the offset and angle via INS info and gets you "on target" for the release... personally, I don't trust the INS that much even if I haven't been flying it hamfisted!

[Q3ark]

Is there a good tutorial on how to use computer IP? I’d be interested in learning it.

[alexej21]

Thanks for the answer. I am aware about computer target mode. I would like to use Jester and Lantirn to find and identify the targers and then using dumb bombs to destroy it.

[IronMike]

1 hour ago, alexej21 said:

Thanks for the answer. I am aware about computer target mode. I would like to use Jester and Lantirn to find and identify the targers and then using dumb bombs to destroy it.

LANTIRN does not provide for that. Have Jester designate a target and talk you on initially, but you will have to do the rest on your own. There simply is no dumb bomb mode in it. As such, computer target is much more effective for that. You can always use a combination btw, switch back and forth. (You will have to do the visual acquisition yourself still, though.)

What I do in that case: have Jester find the target, correlate it visually using landmarks, etc. Run in visually and drop visually mostly using computer pilot, or with AAA etc present computer target. It is the simplest way.

Edited November 24, 2021 by IronMike

[Spartan111sqn]

6 hours ago, IronMike said:

LANTIRN does not provide for that. Have Jester designate a target and talk you on initially, but you will have to do the rest on your own. There simply is no dumb bomb mode in it. As such, computer target is much more effective for that. You can always use a combination btw, switch back and forth. (You will have to do the visual acquisition yourself still, though.)

What I do in that case: have Jester find the target, correlate it visually using landmarks, etc. Run in visually and drop visually mostly using computer pilot, or with AAA etc present computer target. It is the simplest way.

 

Was like that in RL?

[IronMike]

9 minutes ago, Spartan111sqn said:

Was like that in RL?

For the Lantirn pod? yes. For the procedure? I don't think they would carry dumb bombs during LANTIRN ops.

[Spartan111sqn]

Thanks 

I meant that with dumb bombs, the "ccrp" way could work in the same manner as laser ones, with Jester indicating "pickle" or the count down in the screen.

[QuiGon]

2 hours ago, Spartan111sqn said:

Thanks 

I meant that with dumb bombs, the "ccrp" way could work in the same manner as laser ones, with Jester indicating "pickle" or the count down in the screen.

The LANTIRN would have to provide the ballistic calculations for the dumb bomb types in order to do that. I'm actually not sure if you can select dumb bombs on the LANTIRN. I will have to check that next time when I'm flying as a RIO with the LANTIRN.

[Spartan111sqn]

Good, waiting for feedback, and as a pilot can we heard the indication from jester?, or at least see the contdown?

[QuiGon]

16 hours ago, Spartan111sqn said:

Good, waiting for feedback, and as a pilot can we heard the indication from jester?, or at least see the contdown?

I have checked it now and the LANTIRN does indeed not provide ballistics for dumb bombs (they don't even show up on the LANTIRN screen). It only offers ballistics for the various LGBs.

Edited November 26, 2021 by QuiGon

[AvroLanc]

1 hour ago, QuiGon said:

I have checked it now and the LANTIRN does indeed not provide ballistics for dumb bombs (they don't even show up on the LANTIRN screen). It only offers ballistics for the various LGBs.

 

Yeah, this is true to life. Remember that LANTIRN has minimal integration with the aircraft's other bombing systems. All of the ballistics calculations and release cues etc are calculated within the LANTIRN POD itself.

I do wonder why the USN didn't spec the pod with the ability to drop dumb bombs with it, it is a pretty useful capability. Especially so when the pod was coming into service in the late 90's. Maybe it was a memory limitation or something within the pod.

[Nealius]

On 11/25/2021 at 1:06 PM, IronMike said:

For the Lantirn pod? yes. For the procedure? I don't think they would carry dumb bombs during LANTIRN ops.

Just chiming in on the dumb bombs+LANTIRN combo: Mk20s plus LANTIRN seemed to be a thing during Southern Watch. Not sure why Mk20s (CBU99?) specifically but those seemed to be fairly common in OSW on both Tomcats and Hornets, judging from period photos. VF-102 seen with Mk82s plus a Phoenix on the left glove station points to a possible LANTIRN on the other side as well but that's just speculation on my part.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Nealius

[IronMike]

1 hour ago, Nealius said:

Just chiming in on the dumb bombs+LANTIRN combo: Mk20s plus LANTIRN seemed to be a thing during Southern Watch. Not sure why Mk20s (CBU99?) specifically but those seemed to be fairly common in OSW on both Tomcats and Hornets, judging from period photos. VF-102 seen with Mk82s plus a Phoenix on the left glove station points to a possible LANTIRN on the other side as well but that's just speculation on my part.

 

Not sure, but carrying mk20s together with the pod doesn't mean they used them together with the pod. Could have been simply: use pod to find targets, manually drop mk20s... But, we're speculating. What is certain, is that the pod did not provide dumb munition guidance.

[QuiGon]

24 minutes ago, Nealius said:

Just chiming in on the dumb bombs+LANTIRN combo: Mk20s plus LANTIRN seemed to be a thing during Southern Watch. Not sure why Mk20s (CBU99?) specifically but those seemed to be fairly common in OSW on both Tomcats and Hornets, judging from period photos. VF-102 seen with Mk82s plus a Phoenix on the left glove station points to a possible LANTIRN on the other side as well but that's just speculation on my part.

Well, I think they carried these stores for different purposes during OSW:
- The LANTIRN to observe suspicious activities on the ground
- The Mk20 to strike if needed, especially against AA sites

[Jayhawk1971]

 

[IronMike]

43 minutes ago, Jayhawk1971 said:

 

Great find. I haven't seen it yet, and was hoping all along that we have been wrong...

[Jayhawk1971]

I'm wondering whether what Bio said was true for all variants of the Tomcat. I could imagine that at least the latest D-models might have had "better" sensor integration.

Although, I have no idea if the LANTIRN system generally was a stand-alone, independent sensor environment, or if it actually was integrated into the avionics suite of the F-15E or those Block 40/42 F-16's that carried the pod. My latest interaction with the Strike Eagle was "Jane's F-15", so what do I know....  

If only there was a Strike Eagle Wizzo on these boards that could chime in   (if he's allowed to reveal such information, of course)