ILS

[Revientor]

Is the ILS working? I am unable to get it work correctly. the vertical line always drive me out of the runway (really far away)

[ASAP]

What runway? How do you have the NMSP set up and is the the correct course for the runway dialed in on the HSI?

[jaylw314]

5 hours ago, Revientor said:

Is the ILS working? I am unable to get it work correctly. the vertical line always drive me out of the runway (really far away)

IIRC, some of the runways with listed ILS frequencies do not actually have them (annoying).  Make sure ILS is selected on the NMSP.  Remember, the yellow bars on the ADI are NOT your CDI and glideslope, they are (I think) flight directors.  The CDI is on the HSI course needle, and the glideslop is the little arrow to the left of the ADI

[Sn8ke]

If ILS isn’t working, revert to localizer minimums and fly the published step downs to MDA and descend to runway at the visual descent point as long as you have the runway in sight. I fly these approaches, as well as VOR-A’s in actual IFR conditions irl. There are two DME-Arcs at Incirlik I may try tonight. 

[King39]

I've found that the ILS at Kobuleti hasn't worked for awhile.

[Revientor]

9 hours ago, King39 said:

I've found that the ILS at Kobuleti hasn't worked for awhile.

May be is that... I found the ILS problem with the Marianas theater, then I went to caucaso, thinking the problem could be the map... and I test it in kobuleti, I should try other airports then...
I will post the results here when I try it

[Taz1004]

I have related question.  Most airfields have ILS only one direction I think.  What happens if the wind's blowing the other way?  Conditions requiring ILS are usually very heavy wind too.

[Cato]

It's been my experience that the wind has to be pointing in the direction of the runway you intend to make a instrument approach on. If the wind is set to zero, ILS will not work. 

[King39]

1 hour ago, Cato said:

It's been my experience that the wind has to be pointing in the direction of the runway you intend to make a instrument approach on. If the wind is set to zero, ILS will not work. 

Yeah, but what if the conditions are 0/0 with heavy fog requiring an ILS approach? The wind would 0 as well...

[Yurgon]

I think I submitted a wishlist item a long while ago to have all ILS beacons and airfield lights all on by default, and to make them controllable via the mission editor for situations where mission designers would want more fine-grained control.

Right now it's just a reality that we have to set significant winds in order to force certain ILS beacons to be on, unless I'm missing a change in DCS in the meantime.

[Sn8ke]

4 hours ago, Yurgon said:

I think I submitted a wishlist item a long while ago to have all ILS beacons and airfield lights all on by default, and to make them controllable via the mission editor for situations where mission designers would want more fine-grained control.

Right now it's just a reality that we have to set significant winds in order to force certain ILS beacons to be on, unless I'm missing a change in DCS in the meantime.

Would be cool to get all the NAVAIDS modeled as in real life, however as far as navigation goes in DCS, we usually have displays which provide positive course guidance with the route visible. 

[jaylw314]

11 hours ago, Taz1004 said:

I have related question.  Most airfields have ILS only one direction I think.  What happens if the wind's blowing the other way?  Conditions requiring ILS are usually very heavy wind too.

Many airfields with an ILS have a non-precision Back Course approach based on the localizer.  It's reverse-sensing, of course, but with an HSI that's a trivial issue.

Alternatively, if the weather allows, many ILS approaches have the option to circle to the opposite runway once you break out of the clouds.  Usually the weather to do this needs to be much better than the default ILS approach, though.

[drPhibes]

1 hour ago, jaylw314 said:

Many airfields with an ILS have a non-precision Back Course approach based on the localizer.  It's reverse-sensing, of course, but with an HSI that's a trivial issue.

While this used to be the case some decades ago, back course approaches are rarely used these days (at least outside the US). Modern localizers use LPDA antennas with high front-to-back ratios ( > 20dB) which need modification in order to radiate a useful back course signal. Back course approaches are not approved for use in the EU (and Canada), and are extremely rare in the rest of the open ILS market (i.e. everywhere except the US and Russia, which have local monopolies).

[Bailey]

16 hours ago, Taz1004 said:

I have related question.  Most airfields have ILS only one direction I think.  What happens if the wind's blowing the other way?  Conditions requiring ILS are usually very heavy wind too.

IRL, ILS conditions are not "usually" "heavy" winds. As for the direction of the wind, you can opt to land with a tailwind if landing performance (brake performance) allows. If not, shoot a different approach or go to a different airport.

[Taz1004]

8 hours ago, Bailey said:

IRL, ILS conditions are not "usually" "heavy" winds. As for the direction of the wind, you can opt to land with a tailwind if landing performance (brake performance) allows. If not, shoot a different approach or go to a different airport.

Looks like I didn't make myself clear.  Was asking in DCS.  But thanks for the info anyway.

[Sn8ke]

14 minutes ago, Taz1004 said:

Looks like I didn't make myself clear.  Was asking in DCS.  But thanks for the info anyway.

Taz, I’m currently in instrument training right now, so I’m somewhat well versed in this topic. So here is how an ILS works: There are two main components for guidance: the localizer, which provides lateral guidance operating on the 108.1-111.95 MHz range (Every odd tenths). It is somewhat similar to a VOR, except doesn’t have 360 degree radials.
 

The Localizer is positioned on the departure end (Opposite the runway you are landing). The Localizer is only 5 degrees wide, at 700 feet wide at the runway threshold. The localizer is 4 times more sensitive than your standard VOR, which means the needle moves a whole lot faster. The localizer is identifiable out to 18 miles at 10 degrees and 10 miles at 35 degrees. The localizer works on both the landing and departure end, the catch us landing the other end will be a “Localizer back-course approach,” meaning you will get reverse-sensing of the needles.

The glideslope is the 2nd guidance component, similar to the localizer, however providing vertical course guidance with a beam 1.4 degrees set at a 3 degree glide slope. It is positioned several hundred feet up and offset from the runway. Unlike the localizer, the GS ONLY works on the approach side. Now there are other components such as the approach lighting system, PAPI/VASI/REIL lights, as well as the runway, touchdown zone, threshold, their makings and lighting as well.

Probably more information than what you were looking for, however your question most directly answered like this:

(1) Fly the localizer back course approach as a non-precision approach w/ no vertical guidance, or a more popular method for wind situations like you inquired:

(2)“Circle-to-land,” which is this: fly the ILS approach to the runway you are not landing in, descending to published circling minimums, which is a MDA (Minimum descent altitude). MDA is usually 400+ higher that the ILS minimums. Minimums: a published altitude which you must make a decision to land or go around…basically you must be is a position to land on intended runway and have at least one of its lighting systems in sight. You must continue until you are in the “Safety area,” typically charted 1.3NMs from the runway, at this point, you enter the visual landing pattern…a typical method is 45 degree turn right for 30 seconds, then left, staying within 1.3 miles the entire time, then turning to land the opposite runway. typically you will not descend until on final approach, as circling minimums only guarantee 300 feet obstacle clearance. I hope this answers your question

[Taz1004]

5 minutes ago, davidzill said:

Taz, I’m currently in instrument training right now, so I’m somewhat well versed in this topic. So here is how an ILS works: There are two main components for guidance: the localizer, which provides lateral guidance operating on the 108.1-111.95 MHz range (Every odd tenths). It is somewhat similar to a VOR, except doesn’t have 360 degree radials.
 

The Localizer is positioned on the departure end (Opposite the runway you are landing). The Localizer is only 5 degrees wide, at 700 feet wide at the runway threshold. The localizer is 4 times more sensitive than your standard VOR, which means the needle moves a whole lot faster. The localizer is identifiable out to 18 miles at 10 degrees and 10 miles at 35 degrees. The localizer works on both the landing and departure end, the catch us landing the other end will be a “Localizer back-course approach,” meaning you will get reverse-sensing of the needles.

The glideslope is the 2nd guidance component, similar to the localizer, however providing vertical course guidance with a beam 1.4 degrees set at a 3 degree glide slope. It is positioned several hundred feet up and offset from the runway. Unlike the localizer, the GS ONLY works on the approach side. Now there are other components such as the approach lighting system, PAPI/VASI/REIL lights, as well as the runway, touchdown zone, threshold, their makings and lighting as well.

Probably more information than what you were looking for, however your question most directly answered like this:

(1) Fly the localizer back course approach as a non-precision approach w/ no vertical guidance, or a more popular method for wind situations like you inquired:

(2)“Circle-to-land,” which is this: fly the ILS approach to the runway you are not landing in, descending to published circling minimums, which is a MDA (Minimum descent altitude). MDA is usually 400+ higher that the ILS minimums. Minimums: a published altitude which you must make a decision to land or go around…basically you must be is a position to land on intended runway and have at least one of its lighting systems in sight. You must continue until you are in the “Safety area,” typically charted 1.3NMs from the runway, at this point, you enter the visual landing pattern…a typical method is 45 degree turn right for 30 seconds, then left, staying within 1.3 miles the entire time, then turning to land the opposite runway. typically you will not descend until on final approach, as circling minimums only guarantee 300 feet obstacle clearance. I hope this answers your question

Thanks, I'm assuming that assumes you have some visibility.  The last mission I remember... one of OFP mission with heavy storm and nearly zero visibility thanks to the new fog in Edge.  I used HMCS in A10C to orient myself.  But I'll keep in mind your method for ones that doesn't have HMCS.

[Sn8ke]

Affirm, you must see the runway from circling minimus or must execute a missed approach. Usually you’ll fly to the hold and evaluate if you will divert to alternate. IRL, most of the mi,itary fields have precision approach radar, so they guide you in.

[Bailey]

On 11/22/2021 at 4:31 AM, Taz1004 said:

I have related question.  Most airfields have ILS only one direction I think.  What happens if the wind's blowing the other way?  Conditions requiring ILS are usually very heavy wind too.

All DCS airports have a perfered runway at a specific wind threshold. For example an airport will favor one direction for a headwind component of -4m/s and above. When the headwind component is -5m/s or below DCS will make the other runway the active runway. So, to answer your question, in DCS if the wind is blowing the "other way" strong enough, the ILS turns off. The rule of thumb I use when designing missions is to make a wind 4m/s of headwind to ensure that you get the active you want. 

[Diesel_Thunder]

On 11/20/2021 at 9:24 PM, King39 said:

I've found that the ILS at Kobuleti hasn't worked for awhile.

Kobulati was my home field until Marianas was released. Anytime I shot ILS approaches, it was always on runway 7. Even with no wind, runway 7 was the “default” runway. Unless something broke recently, it should be working.

[Bailey]

I don’t explicitly see the answer to the first post tested via the current dcs Openbeta build. I’m mentally reminding myself to check it out later

[Bailey]

On 11/20/2021 at 10:39 PM, Revientor said:

Is the ILS working? I am unable to get it work correctly. the vertical line always drive me out of the runway (really far away)

ILS works. See attached mission. Tune 111.50 MHZ after loading in for the ILS.
A10C2. Blue Kobuleti Final RWY07 wind in ME as 10kts at 223 degrees at 33ft.
Remember to: 
Active Pause
Turn on ILS radio
Tune 111.50
Engage the ILS Mode button behind the stick
Deselect the TCN button behind the stick
Turn the Course Set knob to 070

ILSworks.miz

Edited November 23, 2021 by Bailey

[ASAP]

Maybe a better post for the wishlist, but it would be great if DCS actually had realistic instrument approach procedures created for each of the modeled airfields that mirrored real world procedures, but are actually guarunteed to work in DCS. If actual approach plates do exist somewhere for the in game runways please someone let me know.

[jaylw314]

13 hours ago, Bailey said:

ILS works. See attached mission. Tune 111.50 MHZ after loading in for the ILS.
A10C2. Blue Kobuleti Final RWY07 wind in ME as 10kts at 223 degrees at 33ft.
Remember to: 
Active Pause
Turn on ILS radio
Tune 111.50
Engage the ILS Mode button behind the stick
Deselect the TCN button behind the stick
Turn the Course Set knob to 070

ILSworks.miz 8.43 kB · 1 download

 

For clarity's sake, when you say winds at 223, is that FROM 223 or TO 223?

[Bailey]

48 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

For clarity's sake, when you say winds at 223, is that FROM 223 or TO 223?

The box in the DCS ME says 223. That's what I mean.