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Battle For Orion: The Buying Remorse Continues


Fang333333
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Hello all,

I was getting somewhere on my original thread and it got closed due to something about "race". I didn't see it, but please keep the race comments out and lets try again.

I was advised to contact the U.S Store (Good idea!) but I see no contact info besides FB. I did send a FB message, no responese yet.  A link to anyone who represents Winwing in the U.S would be VERY helpful.

 

As for the UPDATE:

Winwing is now continually asking me to "close the case and we will send the parts". Paypal of course says do nothing of the sort, and basically they should not even be saying that.

Paypal told me that, by  closing the dispute, I would have no way to get any recourse. Winwing also claimed, the dispute will effect their record somehow, but Paypal says there is nothing like that. I told WInwing no matter what, they need to get in touch with Paypal, and all I am asking for is what I literally just got done paying for (Pay in 4).

 

It very much seems like they have no intent on replacing the part. I literally am going to be stuck with a bunch of switches and no throttle.

Please share any links to the U.S store. 

 

Thank you for your sympathy and help flight sim fam,

This is actually surprisingly stressful

 

Fang

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Mate, they will send the parts. Go and Find the HOTAS/HOSAS/SIMPIT discord channel. There's a sub channel for Winwing. In there Tony will sort any issue out.

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i9-9900K @ 5.1 - delided, Gigabyte Aorus Elite MB, Corsair H150i Pro water cooler

64gig G-Skill DDR4@3600, MSI 2080Ti

Winwing Super Taurus, Super Libra, TO / Combat panels and Collective

MFG Crosswind pedals, Tek Creations F/A-18 UFC and F-16 ICP

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I'll second the above, get on discord and have a chat there with Tony409.

The other thing I'm going to suggest is that you break this down into smaller easier to digest bites for winwing. I've read your posts and even with fluent English struggling to understand what has already been done and what needs to be done.

I think the issue you have outstanding is the left throttle handle is missing in its entirety, eg you're saying it was never in the box?

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Don't trust their word. Just don't. Don't trust the people above who tell "they will send parts" either. See the Cubesim thread here on the forum to see how other Chinese manufacturer does business to get an idea why you should not trust them.

I won't say anything else because some people here are too sensitive while having zero understanding about regular business practices in China.

My controls & seat

 

Main controls: , BRD-N v4 Flightstick (Kreml C5 controller), TM Warthog Throttle (Kreml F3 controller), BRD-F2 Restyling Bf-109 Pedals w. damper, TrackIR5, Gametrix KW-908 (integrated into RAV4 seat)

Stick grips:

Thrustmaster Warthog

Thrustmaster Cougar (x2)

Thrustmaster F-16 FLCS

BRD KG13

 

Standby controls:

BRD-M2 Mi-8 Pedals (Ruddermaster controller)

BRD-N v3 Flightstick w. exch. grip upgrade (Kreml C5 controller)

Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle

Pilot seat

 

 

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Mate, they will send the parts. Go and Find the HOTAS/HOSAS/SIMPIT discord channel. There's a sub channel for Winwing. In there Tony will sort any issue out.
What if they don't and he closes the Paypal dispute. What then?
As I said in the other thread, Tony won't solve "any issue". He promised to solve my shipping issue, hasn't solved it, hasn't followed up and just ignored me afterwards.

That said, he is probably your last resort. But for the love of god, don't close the dispute.
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My controls & seat

 

Main controls: , BRD-N v4 Flightstick (Kreml C5 controller), TM Warthog Throttle (Kreml F3 controller), BRD-F2 Restyling Bf-109 Pedals w. damper, TrackIR5, Gametrix KW-908 (integrated into RAV4 seat)

Stick grips:

Thrustmaster Warthog

Thrustmaster Cougar (x2)

Thrustmaster F-16 FLCS

BRD KG13

 

Standby controls:

BRD-M2 Mi-8 Pedals (Ruddermaster controller)

BRD-N v3 Flightstick w. exch. grip upgrade (Kreml C5 controller)

Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle

Pilot seat

 

 

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I'll just let my avatar speak!

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i9-9900K @ 5.1 - delided, Gigabyte Aorus Elite MB, Corsair H150i Pro water cooler

64gig G-Skill DDR4@3600, MSI 2080Ti

Winwing Super Taurus, Super Libra, TO / Combat panels and Collective

MFG Crosswind pedals, Tek Creations F/A-18 UFC and F-16 ICP

Trackir

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3 hours ago, The LT said:

Don't trust their word. Just don't. Don't trust the people above who tell "they will send parts" either. See the Cubesim thread here on the forum to see how other Chinese manufacturer does business to get an idea why you should not trust them.

I won't say anything else because some people here are too sensitive while having zero understanding about regular business practices in China.

Simply speaking from experience, I have parts here that have been sent from winwing no questions asked, sent in a photo of the bit that needed replacing was in the mail the next day. I think MustangSally is the same, there are a heap of others on discord that are in the same boat too.

Of course you can counter that with your experience, that makes perfect sense. Try not to look to discredit people for simply informing the OP of how they have dealt with the company, it doesn't make you seem like a particularly helpful member of the community.

Not closing the dispute is good advice, wait until it is resolved to close it out.

 


Edited by Simm0
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Simply speaking from experience, I have parts here that have been sent from winwing no questions asked, sent in a photo of the bit that needed replacing was in the mail the next day. I think MustangSally is the same, there are a heap of others on discord that are in the same boat too.

Of course you can counter that with your experience, that makes perfect sense. Try not to look to discredit people for simply informing the OP of how they have dealt with the company, it doesn't make you seem like a particularly helpful member of the community.
Not closing the dispute is good advice, wait until it is resolved to close it out.

 


I am not discrediting anyone. I am stating the fact that my experience was unsatisfactory both with ww support lady and with Tony, who has himself recently stated he is just a semi-official support guy and not a full time employee.

It's nice to finally see some common sense. I see you're active on the Cubesim thread, you know how things can go south.

Anyhow, the best course of action is to find Tony on FB or Discord and try him.

I can kinda see the pattern here. They will readily replace off-the-shelf parts like switches and buttons but replacing a more substantial part like a throttle handle is a bigger deal. That bigger that they are stalling it.
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My controls & seat

 

Main controls: , BRD-N v4 Flightstick (Kreml C5 controller), TM Warthog Throttle (Kreml F3 controller), BRD-F2 Restyling Bf-109 Pedals w. damper, TrackIR5, Gametrix KW-908 (integrated into RAV4 seat)

Stick grips:

Thrustmaster Warthog

Thrustmaster Cougar (x2)

Thrustmaster F-16 FLCS

BRD KG13

 

Standby controls:

BRD-M2 Mi-8 Pedals (Ruddermaster controller)

BRD-N v3 Flightstick w. exch. grip upgrade (Kreml C5 controller)

Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle

Pilot seat

 

 

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I'll just let my avatar speak!
Look, my dude. I love WW products. You have NO IDEA what hoops I went through to get me a Taurus and PTO/PCR panels. I am not bashing on them.

My controls & seat

 

Main controls: , BRD-N v4 Flightstick (Kreml C5 controller), TM Warthog Throttle (Kreml F3 controller), BRD-F2 Restyling Bf-109 Pedals w. damper, TrackIR5, Gametrix KW-908 (integrated into RAV4 seat)

Stick grips:

Thrustmaster Warthog

Thrustmaster Cougar (x2)

Thrustmaster F-16 FLCS

BRD KG13

 

Standby controls:

BRD-M2 Mi-8 Pedals (Ruddermaster controller)

BRD-N v3 Flightstick w. exch. grip upgrade (Kreml C5 controller)

Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle

Pilot seat

 

 

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24 minutes ago, The LT said:

I am not discrediting anyone.

Don't trust the people above who tell "they will send parts" either

 

I'd recommend choosing your words wiser in written communication then...

Yeah I am active on the other thread, cubesim has been nothing but responsive, yes he's having issues but he does do his best to communicate what is going on, the only reason I have to escalate that is that there are dates paypal puts around that. I still expect that will close out by me getting my screens rather than a refund, but that doesn't mean I wont take precautions.

I'd say both with WW and cubesim they didn't realise how much they'd grow in english speaking countries and maybe weren't quite so prepared for the challenges. I see that they both put in pretty decent efforts in my dealings with them though.

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I'd recommend choosing your words wiser in written communication then...

Yeah I am active on the other thread, cubesim has been nothing but responsive, yes he's having issues but he does do his best to communicate what is going on, the only reason I have to escalate that is that there are dates paypal puts around that. I still expect that will close out by me getting my screens rather than a refund, but that doesn't mean I wont take precautions.

I'd say both with WW and cubesim they didn't realise how much they'd grow in english speaking countries and maybe weren't quite so prepared for the challenges. I see that they both put in pretty decent efforts in my dealings with them though.


I chose my words correctly based on factual evidence and my own experience with them. Let's just leave at that, shall we, further elaboration on the matter is impossible without hurting the feelings of some people, so I'll just let it go.

OT, but I am willing to bet the CubeSim guy ran out of DisplayLink boards and can't find a supplier. I tried sourcing a few of them and had problems finding any. He should have issued a public statement with an ETA or no ETA or tried to revise the design with a new driver board.

My controls & seat

 

Main controls: , BRD-N v4 Flightstick (Kreml C5 controller), TM Warthog Throttle (Kreml F3 controller), BRD-F2 Restyling Bf-109 Pedals w. damper, TrackIR5, Gametrix KW-908 (integrated into RAV4 seat)

Stick grips:

Thrustmaster Warthog

Thrustmaster Cougar (x2)

Thrustmaster F-16 FLCS

BRD KG13

 

Standby controls:

BRD-M2 Mi-8 Pedals (Ruddermaster controller)

BRD-N v3 Flightstick w. exch. grip upgrade (Kreml C5 controller)

Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle

Pilot seat

 

 

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1 hour ago, The LT said:
9 hours ago, MustangSally said:
I'll just let my avatar speak!

Look, my dude. I love WW products. You have NO IDEA what hoops I went through to get me a Taurus and PTO/PCR panels. I am not bashing on them.

Not your dude mate!

i9-9900K @ 5.1 - delided, Gigabyte Aorus Elite MB, Corsair H150i Pro water cooler

64gig G-Skill DDR4@3600, MSI 2080Ti

Winwing Super Taurus, Super Libra, TO / Combat panels and Collective

MFG Crosswind pedals, Tek Creations F/A-18 UFC and F-16 ICP

Trackir

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Not your dude mate!
Very mature of you.

My controls & seat

 

Main controls: , BRD-N v4 Flightstick (Kreml C5 controller), TM Warthog Throttle (Kreml F3 controller), BRD-F2 Restyling Bf-109 Pedals w. damper, TrackIR5, Gametrix KW-908 (integrated into RAV4 seat)

Stick grips:

Thrustmaster Warthog

Thrustmaster Cougar (x2)

Thrustmaster F-16 FLCS

BRD KG13

 

Standby controls:

BRD-M2 Mi-8 Pedals (Ruddermaster controller)

BRD-N v3 Flightstick w. exch. grip upgrade (Kreml C5 controller)

Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle

Pilot seat

 

 

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18 hours ago, Fang333333 said:

Winwing is now continually asking me to "close the case and we will send the parts".

Whatever you do, do not close the case! A company that griefs to send you parts you already paid for and is then, after opening a PaPaly case, asking you to close this PayPal case before they will send you named parts is definately not trustworthy. They didn't send you the parts prior to you opening the case, but if you now close the case they will send them? Yes, for sure... that sounds realy reliable.  Don't let yourself get fooled. Once you close the case, you'll most propably never ever hear anything again from WW and you are without money and without a functional throttle, as you already said in the OT. Better tell them that you'll close the case once the correct parts arrive at your postal adress and not a second earlier than that. Not negotiable. Plain and simple.

Good luck sir, cheers


Edited by VpR81
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11 hours ago, The LT said:

I chose my words correctly based on factual evidence and my own experience with them. 

 

That's fine for the bit where you say "dont trust winwing" if you're basing that off your experience. But where you say not to trust other posters experience (the bit I explicitly called out) you are not basing that off any knowledge of the posters or their experience, seems unnecessary. We stuck to the facts of our own experience, we don't try to say not to trust you or your experience with them, all the information is relevant to this poster or others reading the thread.

I'll reiterate here, while there is a language barrier both cubesim and winwing have always remained responsive to my queries, if this changes I'll be happy to say so. I'd recommend remaining polite, having some patience and keeping your communication as clear and succinct as possible. Definitely use the protections that are there for you and even explain to winwing your reasons for doing that are simply for your own protection.

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That's fine for the bit where you say "dont trust winwing" if you're basing that off your experience. But where you say not to trust other posters experience (the bit I explicitly called out) you are not basing that off any knowledge of the posters or their experience, seems unnecessary. We stuck to the facts of our own experience, we don't try to say not to trust you or your experience with them, all the information is relevant to this poster or others reading the thread.

I'll reiterate here, while there is a language barrier both cubesim and winwing have always remained responsive to my queries, if this changes I'll be happy to say so. I'd recommend remaining polite, having some patience and keeping your communication as clear and succinct as possible. Definitely use the protections that are there for you and even explain to winwing your reasons for doing that are simply for your own protection.
Fair points.

My controls & seat

 

Main controls: , BRD-N v4 Flightstick (Kreml C5 controller), TM Warthog Throttle (Kreml F3 controller), BRD-F2 Restyling Bf-109 Pedals w. damper, TrackIR5, Gametrix KW-908 (integrated into RAV4 seat)

Stick grips:

Thrustmaster Warthog

Thrustmaster Cougar (x2)

Thrustmaster F-16 FLCS

BRD KG13

 

Standby controls:

BRD-M2 Mi-8 Pedals (Ruddermaster controller)

BRD-N v3 Flightstick w. exch. grip upgrade (Kreml C5 controller)

Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle

Pilot seat

 

 

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23 hours ago, VpR81 said:

Whatever you do, do not close the case! A company that griefs to send you parts you already paid for and is then, after opening a PaPaly case, asking you to close this PayPal case before they will send you named parts is definately not trustworthy. They didn't send you the parts prior to you opening the case, but if you now close the case they will send them? Yes, for sure... that sounds realy reliable.  Don't let yourself get fooled. Once you close the case, you'll most propably never ever hear anything again from WW and you are without money and without a functional throttle, as you already said in the OT. Better tell them that you'll close the case once the correct parts arrive at your postal adress and not a second earlier than that. Not negotiable. Plain and simple.

How long can a Paypal dispute remain open? Trying to look from the perspective of the company, they could send out the missing parts AND then get the money paid through Paypal revoked, thus the buyer would keep both their money and the fully functioning throttle.


Edited by Dudikoff

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DISCLAIMER: My posts are still absolutely useless. Just finding excuses not to learn the F-14 (HB's Swansong?).

 

Annoyed by my posts? Please consider donating. Once the target sum is reached, I'll be off to somewhere nice I promise not to post from. I'd buy that for a dollar!

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15 minutes ago, Dudikoff said:

How long can a Paypal dispute remain open?

I think it's about 2 weeks until PayPal decides about the case. I recently opened my first PayPal case and it was like 16 days until i got my money back.

15 minutes ago, Dudikoff said:

Trying to look from the perspective of the company, they could send out the missing parts AND then get the money paid through Paypal revoked, thus the buyer would keep both their money and the fully functioning throttle.

This is something they should've considered a bit earlier. I.e. when the buyer reported the missing parts and asked for them. They gave the TO the runaround, so it is completely their own fault and they'd better be haulin' ass now. Also they told him that this would effect their record and PayPal clearly said there is nothing like this. So they are obviously lying in order to fool him. Do you remember the boy who cried wolf?


Edited by VpR81
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Just my experience;

They sent me the part I requested that was broken....the grip on the Orion Throttle because button 14 was broken. At first they didn't want to without me sending the whole grip back to them first.

They were adamant I send back the old grip back first.   But they relented and sent me the grip after I promised to send it back.   They did repay my shipping on the credit card I used to pay for the HOTAS.

A bit of games though on their part....'oh i'll get in trouble with my boss if i do what you ask, etc'

So in general I think Winwing is honest and not out to rip anyone off.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, VpR81 said:

This is something they should've considered a bit earlier. I.e. when the buyer reported the missing parts and asked for them. They gave the TO the runaround, so it is completely their own fault and they'd better be haulin' ass now. Also they told him that this would effect their record and PayPal clearly said there is nothing like this. So they are obviously lying in order to fool him. Do you remember the boy who cried wolf?

'Obviously lying'? You seem to hold a very extreme perspective where a company which wants to earn money by selling flight sim gear to their customers is somehow interested in scamming them.

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i386DX40@42 MHz w/i387 CP, 4 MB RAM (8*512 kB), Trident 8900C 1 MB w/16-bit RAMDAC ISA, Quantum 340 MB UDMA33, SB 16, DOS 6.22 w/QEMM + Win3.11CE, Quickshot 1btn 2axis, Numpad as hat. 2 FPH on a good day, 1 FPH avg.

 

DISCLAIMER: My posts are still absolutely useless. Just finding excuses not to learn the F-14 (HB's Swansong?).

 

Annoyed by my posts? Please consider donating. Once the target sum is reached, I'll be off to somewhere nice I promise not to post from. I'd buy that for a dollar!

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On 10/28/2021 at 9:04 AM, Dudikoff said:

'Obviously lying'? You seem to hold a very extreme perspective where a company which wants to earn money by selling flight sim gear to their customers is somehow interested in scamming them.

No. It's more like that they're not interested in sending the parts the TO already payed for.

And here:

On 10/25/2021 at 10:24 PM, Fang333333 said:

Winwing also claimed, the dispute will effect their record somehow, but Paypal says there is nothing like that.

Winwing is claiming something, that is definately not the truth. And telling something that is not the truth, is what? I know, some people may call it "alternative facts", but it remains what it is. A lie, plain and simple. What do you think, why are they trying to tell him that? Calling a lie beeing a lie isn't a extreme perspective, just simple observation. Combined with the statement of the service lady ("i don't know what to tell my boss" - please), this behavior is at least questionable. Have you ever heard this from VPC, TM, Realsimulator or VBK? I didn't.

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To be fair, Winwing has just recently entered the consumer market so the comparison is not really fair. I'm sure you could find such complaints from back when VKB and Virpil were just starting. The company needs to get a larger sales volume so they can invest in dedicated customer support department and then have some part of the profit set aside to be burned on claims like these. Without a dedicated and trained customer support, the language barrier and a larger cultural difference can lead to a conflict when there's some problem.

But, the problem here is that you're not the OP. You take one-sided second hand bits of information and form IMHO rather extreme views on the situation which you present as obvious 'facts' which only serves to escalating the misunderstanding further and doesn't really help the OP to resolve his situation to mutual satisfaction.

I could be wrong, sure, but my basic view is that WinWing have no interest in crossing over their customers as it would be quite stupid to do so. But, I'd wager it sounds more likely than 'WinWing wants to shoot themselves in a foot to save $50' perspective.


Edited by Dudikoff
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i386DX40@42 MHz w/i387 CP, 4 MB RAM (8*512 kB), Trident 8900C 1 MB w/16-bit RAMDAC ISA, Quantum 340 MB UDMA33, SB 16, DOS 6.22 w/QEMM + Win3.11CE, Quickshot 1btn 2axis, Numpad as hat. 2 FPH on a good day, 1 FPH avg.

 

DISCLAIMER: My posts are still absolutely useless. Just finding excuses not to learn the F-14 (HB's Swansong?).

 

Annoyed by my posts? Please consider donating. Once the target sum is reached, I'll be off to somewhere nice I promise not to post from. I'd buy that for a dollar!

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