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F-15E Minimum Release Opinion


Tank50us
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I am the sort of person that believes fairly strong both in this module, and the early-access model. After all, the benefit of it is that you're earning money while polishing the product, and I think that's both good for the people making the module, and for those that adopt it early. Obviously great care must be taken, many of us know that the F-16 was released in a.... not very well optimized state, and ED caught a lot of flak for it.

That all being said, I do feel there is a good way to do this, and the first step in that is for the company making the module to just be honest with the players. People do want the Strike Eagle, and people do want it to be the best module possible. But, let's be honest with ourselves, like many things, it will not be perfect on day one. Bugs that Razbam could never have tested for will crop up, and will need a good squashing, but they will only know about it, if we tell them about the bugs. So with that out of the way, onto the meat:

What I would like to see in the MudHen, at minimum, is the following:

  • Working flight model
  • Basic to moderate damage model
  • AAMs and gun working
  • 'dumb' bombs working
  • Laser-Guided Bombs working
  • FLIR pods working
  • Multi-crew operational
  • Internal Systems working as designed (radar, coms, HUD, MFDs, etc)
  • and In-flight Refueling

These are what I would consider to be the 'mission critical' items that should be available day one, and as you can see, there aren't very many items on that list, even if you expand it to get down to the nitpicky stuff. Now, some might question why I'd ask Razbam to release it with only so few items, and to them I'd answer: Simple, because everything on that list brings it into the state it was in 1991, and it makes it more likely that if bugs are found, they can be fixed much more easily due to the limited places the bugs can be. On top of that, as more systems get added, the main code stays very robust compared to just dumping it all, and if new bugs crop up, then the people behind the code have an even narrower field to search in.

On top of that, it would also allow those of us willing to cover our eyes and stretch out our feet something to work with. After all, we all take a leap of faith when we purchase any module, but I still think that a strong early access build is a good way to go. And again, if Razbam is honest with us, tells us exactly what comes with the EA build, and what comes later down the road, I think people will be ok with it. It's certainly proved that way with Hind, Mosquito, and Apache. Granted, that is with ED, but Heatblur also made it work with the Tomcat and Viggen, so I think it's certainly possible we could get a EA MudHen very, very soon (based on what I'm seeing so far), but it's ultimately up to Razbam to make that call.

And inb4 someone gripes about RB not showing off any systems or even talking about it... remember that the F-15E is still in service, they may not be allowed to talk about the systems beyond "This is what it is, this is what it does"

So what do you guys think?

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I would also welcome an EA F-15E. I've been waiting for this bird soo long and if not all is functional at the beginning, I'm ok with it as long as the improvemts to the final state always countinue and do not get interrupted for another module.


Edited by Viper1970
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Going EA with just a refined FM, 3d model, and pit would be sufficient for me. 

After all it is the bones on which all else is supported. 

I do stress refined, fuel, electrics,hyd oil, ect. one gripe I have with the f14 is the constant changes to the FM, it's like learning a new bird every time. 

Any additional systems to a refined FM wouldn't drastically change its behavior, so it's just then a matter of getting cool new toys. 

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I must be one of the few who buyers who were not only not only disappointed, but actually happy with the Viper in it's day-1 EA state.  Personally I'd rather be flying an incomplete module, than waiting forever for a feature complete version.  I like to start incorporating new aircraft into missions, getting a feel for the systems, checklists, tactics etc, which is all perfectly achievable with a 50% complete module.

However, Razbam will release it when they want to, not when we want them to.

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On 10/29/2021 at 10:50 AM, Lace said:

Personally I'd rather be flying an incomplete module, than waiting forever for a feature complete version.  I like to start incorporating new aircraft into missions, getting a feel for the systems, checklists, tactics etc, which is all perfectly achievable with a 50% complete module.

 

Agree completely. 

And as an added bonus every update to the plane feels like aviation Christmas. :happy:

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Some of the planes, but all of the maps!

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On 10/21/2021 at 7:46 AM, Tank50us said:

I am the sort of person that believes fairly strong both in this module, and the early-access model. After all, the benefit of it is that you're earning money while polishing the product, and I think that's both good for the people making the module, and for those that adopt it early. Obviously great care must be taken, many of us know that the F-16 was released in a.... not very well optimized state, and ED caught a lot of flak for it.

That all being said, I do feel there is a good way to do this, and the first step in that is for the company making the module to just be honest with the players. People do want the Strike Eagle, and people do want it to be the best module possible. But, let's be honest with ourselves, like many things, it will not be perfect on day one. Bugs that Razbam could never have tested for will crop up, and will need a good squashing, but they will only know about it, if we tell them about the bugs. So with that out of the way, onto the meat:

What I would like to see in the MudHen, at minimum, is the following:

  • Working flight model
  • Basic to moderate damage model
  • AAMs and gun working
  • 'dumb' bombs working
  • Laser-Guided Bombs working
  • FLIR pods working
  • Multi-crew operational
  • Internal Systems working as designed (radar, coms, HUD, MFDs, etc)
  • and In-flight Refueling

These are what I would consider to be the 'mission critical' items that should be available day one, and as you can see, there aren't very many items on that list, even if you expand it to get down to the nitpicky stuff. Now, some might question why I'd ask Razbam to release it with only so few items, and to them I'd answer: Simple, because everything on that list brings it into the state it was in 1991, and it makes it more likely that if bugs are found, they can be fixed much more easily due to the limited places the bugs can be. On top of that, as more systems get added, the main code stays very robust compared to just dumping it all, and if new bugs crop up, then the people behind the code have an even narrower field to search in.

On top of that, it would also allow those of us willing to cover our eyes and stretch out our feet something to work with. After all, we all take a leap of faith when we purchase any module, but I still think that a strong early access build is a good way to go. And again, if Razbam is honest with us, tells us exactly what comes with the EA build, and what comes later down the road, I think people will be ok with it. It's certainly proved that way with Hind, Mosquito, and Apache. Granted, that is with ED, but Heatblur also made it work with the Tomcat and Viggen, so I think it's certainly possible we could get a EA MudHen very, very soon (based on what I'm seeing so far), but it's ultimately up to Razbam to make that call.

And inb4 someone gripes about RB not showing off any systems or even talking about it... remember that the F-15E is still in service, they may not be allowed to talk about the systems beyond "This is what it is, this is what it does"

So what do you guys think?

Big agree with you here! From what I've gathered, Razbam are at least trying to release the Mudhen in a semi polished state. Close to something like the Mi-24s launch. If they can pull this off ill be pretty impressed. To be honest I think Razbam has learned from their mistakes with their previous work so im keeping my hopes high. One thing to note is that I woudn't be shocked if we dont get the LANTIRN NAV pod at launch. Its TFR and subsytems are pretty complex and will definitely need a lot of work to polish out.  Im assuming we will at least have LITENING though! 

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  • 1 month later...

Big fan of EA as some other posters. These are my perfect EA level:

  • Flight model in a decent state (90%) but to be improved; its impossible to have a finish one on release not even Heatblur has managed that
  • Basic A2A radar modes, at least RWS and TWS. More specific modes to come later
  • A2A weaponry including AIM9s (M a Xs), Aim7s, AIm120
  • Almost Full navigation cappabilities; meaning flight plan creation, waypoints creation... I can live with markpoints coming later
  • Flight systems (AAR, basic damage model)
  • Countermeasures at basic level: Manual Chaff/flares, semiauto mode. I can wait for Auto as i never use it in any plane being a waste of CMS
  • External model and internal model complete
  • Basic JHMCS functionality (at least aim9x cuieng), A2G coming later
  • Basic datalink; full MSI to come later is ok
  • IF working
  • Dumb bombs and rockets
  • Laser guided bombs 
  • FLIR basic functionality, special modes (A2A, MGRS... coming later)
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