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is there a distance limit to give jester a command? sometimes he looks at different places when i give him look at xx map mark point, even though the point is straight ahead

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8 hours ago, ebabil said:

is there a distance limit to give jester a command? sometimes he looks at different places when i give him look at xx map mark point, even though the point is straight ahead

When I was testing QMap Marker while working on an updated F-14 kneeboard, I noticed that Jester wasn't slewing the LANTIRN pod to the mark point if the marker was over ~20 miles away.


Edited by 609_Relentov
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33 minutes ago, 609_Relentov said:

When I was testing QMap Marker while working on an updated F-14 kneeboard, I noticed that Jester wasn't slewing the LANTIRN pod to the mark point if the marker was over ~20 miles away.

 

I noticed when I came off a target, I needed to reset the POD and then go back to QMap marker.  Maybe because I didn't understand the mechanics, but it seemed to work

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http://airgroup51.net/forum/index.php?topic=6768.0

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Requesting the ability to get to the "Jester TPOD Menu" via the Jester Main menu. A few people have noticed that the "Jester TPOD menu" is only reachable via the contextual menu. Having it reachable from the Jester main menu will standardize its use, similar to the other menus and will be more reliable when used with a program such as VoiceAttack.

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There has been some good question, useful suggestions and bug reports in this threat, so please allow me to answer them all in one post. This may form some kind of FAQ 🙂

Oh, and again, thank you, everyone, for your feedback and all comments.

 

On 10/21/2021 at 5:19 PM, bonesvf103 said:

If I use eyeball for Jester to target something, I think I have to wait until he actually stabilizes the LANTIRN before I can tell him to search.  Is that right?  I think I confuse him if I tell him to search targets too soon.

Also, once he finds a target, I assume that he makes that QDES.  However if we miss the approach and I double back and I tell him to go to QDES, he seems to not be able to find it.  Am I doing something wrong?

Yes, it's a good idea to let Jester finish slewing the pod to the desired location before using a search command as his default behaviour is to consider what is under the cross to be the search centre.

Jester automatically designates the targets he finds after using search command if they are in laser range. He should also automatically track those targets and use all modes to do it efficiently: AREA, POINT and QDES (although he uses this one mostly to recentre on the target after heavy manoeuvring). Manual QDES is not necessary and usually would result in worse results as selecting QDES will stop following the target. Finally, using QWP undesignates (LANTIRN feature not Jester) so you will be unable to use QDES. Since this can be confusing, QDES will be available from the Q modes menu only when a valid designated point is available.

 

On 10/21/2021 at 10:44 PM, Slant said:

Hey everyone. I'm just talking with my buddy and we were wondering if Jester's able to pick up a marking IR laser when we sparkle? In buddy lase situations it feels like this would be a very important Q-type in addition to WP and pointing yourself.

LANTIRN is unable to spot other lasers, sorry.

 

On 10/21/2021 at 11:08 PM, commiccannon said:

I have a little issue. When i go to qeyeballs jester slews the pod right around to the back and left. then i turn into target and lock a target it takes jester a minute or so to bring to pod around by this time i'm over the target. Can it be made that jester keeps the pod onto your eyetracker to reduce this issue please. Other then that its an awesome upgrade.

That was how we taught Jester - always follow the circle and it worked like that in our tests. I'll investigate it since your observations suggest a bug. Could you describe your procedure of using QEYEBALLS more precisely?

 

On 10/22/2021 at 12:06 AM, 609_Relentov said:

Using Jester AI for the LANTIRN works well for me.  One minor item is when using Direct Head Control.  Once I move the solid red dot in the red circle on the VDI/TV, it seems that when I move down, the crosshair/display wants to move up/forward instead.  Similarly if I try to move left, the cross-hair/display doesn’t move much… seems to favor forward or right motion only.

This seems to be a bug because the relative location of the dot is exactly the input that we send to the LANTIRN pod. Could you give us more details which would be helpful in reproducing this behaviour?

 

On 10/22/2021 at 12:39 AM, kievbsm said:

2. Is it possible to use LANTIRN to set the target point for any non-laser guided bomb? 
For examle, I want to drop my Mk-84 in CCRP mode and need to set the target point on the groung via HUD. Can I do it with the LANTIRN?

I couldn't find in all available documentation any hint suggesting that the LANTIRN pod contained ballistic data for non-guided bombs so only the laser guided bombs are supported.

 

On 10/22/2021 at 8:53 AM, chrisofsweden said:

In VR when using QDIRECT Head Control to slew the LANTIRN, you get one small ring in the center of the display, and two large rings, one for each eye, that is not correlated properly between both eyes, so you get a sense of a crosseye.

I suppose the issue is that the circles are displayed as if they were very far from you while the VDI display is quite close. I'll see if we can attach the circle to a physical position in the cockpit for the VR users.

 

On 10/22/2021 at 6:06 PM, Ian Boys UK said:

Jester seems unable to target static aircraft. Vehicles like tanks etc work fine but the Target All Aircraft command has him just search aimlessly even when he clearly has big a/c like the A-50 in view.
 

On 10/23/2021 at 1:09 AM, Ian Boys UK said:

Have done more testing using all available Target Search commands - Jester doesn't see static aircraft at all. 

That's a bug, and the fix is already uploaded to ED. Apparently, Jester thought that all static aircraft are dead. I'm dead serious.

 

On 10/22/2021 at 7:05 PM, Scout said:

Is there a way to disable Jester from manipulating the pod, and use the Lantirn pilot mod instead? 

Just use the option to deactivate Jester from the menu, submenu "crew contract". However, there is a bug in the current version which makes Jester unable to wake up from his nap. The bug has been fixed already and the patch is uploaded to ED.

 

On 10/22/2021 at 8:06 PM, Comrade Doge said:

Here's the interesting behaviour now. I took off, headed to the AO, switched to AG mode, and surprise surprise, the LANTIRN was not aligned, the process not even started. As I noticed that, Jester immediately started the alignment process, and I orbited patiently 8 minutes over the AO to wait for it to align.

When launching hot (either air or ground start), the pod is ready to go and aligned. If you use a cold start slot, Jester will switch the pod to on as a part of the startup procedure. However, we missed one scenario where you hot stat on the ground but then rearm. In such a case Jester did nothing until he was asked to switch to A/G. After your reports, we implemented new behaviour. Jester will turn the pod on always when the aircraft is on the ground and running, which should cover the rearm situations. Also, if you rearm within 4 minutes from hot spawning, the pod should be already aligned and cooled down, as if it had been installed when you entered the aircraft. We hope that should help in typical multiplayer scenarios where you rearm after getting into the aircraft.

 

On 10/22/2021 at 10:54 PM, WarbossPetross said:

After you start the mission the A/G Jester page says by default your laser bombs are selected... except they're not. What you need to do is to go to the ordnance menu and select the bombs. You will hear Jester flip some switches in the back, and gee, the pickle queue appears at the right side of Lantirn display and Jester starts calling the shots. The solution might be to modify the A/G scripting procedure to force the selection of default A/G weapons at the stage of preparing the Lantirn when the player presses the A/G master mode button, but if there are multiple A/G weapons on board things might get confusing.

 

That's a very good suggestion and we've been thinking about it. However, we didn't want to change the default behaviour of the A/G mode for those who had started using the F-14 as in the Bombcat role long before the release of the update. Depending on the feedback and future testing, we may add Jester selecting the bombs automatically if only one bomb type is loaded.

 

On 10/22/2021 at 11:55 PM, shagrat said:

I can't get the Map Marker to work, it seems. Are there any requirements, like being in range? Still didn't have much time, just tried in two different sessions.

When using the direct head movement, currently once you looked inside the red circle it stays in control mode, even when looking outside the circle again. This makes it impossible to quickly look up, check instruments or whatever, unless you designate the point currently looking at. It would far more flexible to only move the pod while the dot is inside the circle. You could quickly look up or to a console and then back into the circle to resume slewing the pod.

19 hours ago, ebabil said:

is there a distance limit to give jester a command? sometimes he looks at different places when i give him look at xx map mark point, even though the point is straight ahead

If the marker is too far away, LANTIRN may not enter the AREA mode. Jester has a time limit to enter a mode in which the pod will track the point itself. When that limit is hit, he'll just assume that it's impossible to track the point. We may want to add a voice feedback when such situation happens.

 

On 10/23/2021 at 4:31 AM, bonesvf103 said:

I would like to know if he can be told to target a structure, like a control tower or something.

Unfortunately, he is unable to track structures unless they are placed as static objects in the mission. This is a design choice and it won't change. The pod is able to track any object. However, the abundance of the objects in the scenery would make searching for targets offering some reasonable return of interest for a GBU very tedious.

 

On 10/23/2021 at 11:33 AM, AvroLanc said:

There needs to be a way of commanding Jester to put LANTIRN back in standby mode and to disarm the Laser. It's not very realistic to be returning to base / landing with the pod unstowed and laser armed. For those of us who notice such things. 

Also, it would be nice to set up a manual lase time. JESTER always lases at 10s TTI, but in some scenarios I'd like a slightly longer lase time. This would also be correct for employing GBU-24, as that LGB needs lasing almost as soon as you drop. (I know DCS doesn't care, but to be role-playing / procedurally correct.......).

Jester should stow the pod when you select the landing mode and lower the landing gear, or after you land.

Actually, Jester lasers only when "laser always on" is selected. Normally, Jester uses auto-lasing offered by the pod. That's why you can see 'A' in front of the laser code on the display. Nevertheless, if you need longer lasing time, just ask Jester to lase constantly from the second page of the Jester LANTIRN menu.

 

On 10/23/2021 at 11:36 AM, ouky1991 said:

Cold start, using mk82 in tgt computer mode, then switching to GBU16, man. ord. mode. I find target myself from the RIO seat and designate, when I switch to pilot, JESTER looses track - he gives me a cue to align for about 2 seconds but then it seems the LANTIRN goes to snowplow.

Jester loved his new skills so much that he doesn't want to share the LANTIRN stick any more. If you want to operate the pod yourself, you may want to disable Jester from the "crew contract" submenu.

 

On 10/24/2021 at 10:04 AM, DSplayer said:

Jester spotting stuff is a bit inconsistent. Sometimes he's able to spot tanks and ground vehicles that are very hard to see but other times he can miss an entire moving oil tanker that is directly in the FOV. I would also like Jester to be able to use Point track instead of just Area track.

Slight suggestion for the future: Jester LANTIRN A/A Mode. Would like to see it be used to spot aircraft and point track them.

On 10/25/2021 at 1:10 PM, shagrat said:

Seeing the same here. Maybe it's possible to put in a "chance" to right away spot a target(s) 100% under the crosshair and reduces when Jester needs to "search", so when he directly looks at a target(s) on the initial LANTIRN screen zoomed in, he has a higher chance to "see" targets without searching.

This would reflect human, also. You point the LANTIRN, look at the screen, zoom in if there's a "blob" and then, if it isn't a target you start searching.

Jester, like any human, can memorise some things. For example, he memorises potential targets that he identifies when he looks at his display. Unfortunately, he likes to target first those objects which he spotted first. That's why you may see him moving away from the crosshair and picking other targets. We know how to fix this, and we prepared a dedicated class when we plan to teach Jester to move to the close target first. Unfortunately, this is not ready yet but should be available in November or December.

Additionally, we plan to improve his search logic further. It's a challenging task because we can't analyse the video feed, and we need to emulate Jester vision using synthetic information about the objects inside the pod field of view. By construction, it can never be as realistic as you using the VDI, but our goal is to get as close as possible, and the initial release of Jester LANTIRN is only the first step of this process.

 

2 hours ago, Bailey said:

Requesting the ability to get to the "Jester TPOD Menu" via the Jester Main menu. A few people have noticed that the "Jester TPOD menu" is only reachable via the contextual menu. Having it reachable from the Jester main menu will standardize its use, similar to the other menus and will be more reliable when used with a program such as VoiceAttack.

I'm adding it to the TODO list. We should be able to ship it in November or December.

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1 hour ago, Super Grover said:

LANTIRN is unable to spot other lasers, sorry.

Not even IR pointers? What about Jester, can we make him put on NVGs and follow the sparkle to the target and then put the pod on that target?

I'm not talking about laser spot search or anything like that. I'm not even strictly saying the LANTIRN pod (straw) should be used to find that laser. Adding the ability for Jester to pick up a sparkle and designate his pod on that (or at least search near that area) would be a great incentive for teamwork.

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May be this question was missed, so I'll ask again.

When using the direct head movement, currently once you have looked inside the red circle (the dot poined inside the circle) it stays in control mode (slewing the pod), even when looking outside the circle again.

This makes it impossible to quickly look up, check instruments or whatever, unless you designate the point currently looking at. It would far more flexible to only move the pod while the dot is inside the circle. You could quickly look up or to a console and then back into the circle to resume slewing the pod.

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I'm sorry, I must have missed that when quoting the messages to respond, but I clearly remember I wanted to answer this.

That sounds like a good idea. I may add a bit of dead zone at the edge to get the full rate if you want, but make the rates zero outside of the circle. Adding it to ma todo list.

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I think if you aren't within lineup parameters for a successful bomb drop he probably shouldn't tell you to pickle the things off. Each time out of the 2 times I missed my target, I was off lineup on the pod based on what I had repeated to me on the display... I wasn't off lineup by much, but it was enough that the bombs missed their mark upon deployment.

Happened to me in the new training day mission when I had 4x bombs for x2 targets.

 

Another thing I noticed is that I see him constantly looking over both his shoulders to check our 6... Shouldn't he be engrossed more by the happenings going on in the TID when using the Lantirn pod?


Edited by Baz000
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Thank you for the suggestion on the "pickle" call. We will tell Jester to be less excited when the release cue reaches zero and that he should check the other parts of the display too.


On Jester checking what is outside, he should be more focused on the LANTIRN display when he tracks a unit or during bomb runs. Otherwise, he will try to maintain situational awareness.

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I can't understand anything...I fly online. Map of the Persian Gulf. The plane appears at the airfield already launched. I'm hanging up weapons 4-GBU-16, 1-AIM-54, 2-AIM-9M. After takeoff, I turn on the A/G mode, turn on TCS and after that the VDI screen is just black. There is no inscription NOT RDY on it. Yesterday I flew on the map of Nevada, everything worked. What am I doing wrong?

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I think I've figured out the problem. Yesterday the goals were far away, and today they are near. Should I turn it on and wait 9 minutes? I'm going to try the server.

GreyCat_SPb

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1 hour ago, Super Grover said:

Thank you for the suggestion on the "pickle" call. We will tell Jester to be less excited when the release cue reaches zero and that he should check the other parts of the display too.


On Jester checking what is outside, he should be more focused on the LANTIRN display when he tracks a unit or during bomb runs. Otherwise, he will try to maintain situational awareness.

Maybe even telling the pilot to go around for another pass because the current one is not possible to salvage before bomb drop.

Also, being able to use the pod still when Winchester or not loaded with bombs, because right now soon as I go Winchester I lose the Jester lantirn menu completely.


Edited by Baz000
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Using the Jester LANTIRN has freed up brain cycles to realize how glaringly oblivious the wingman is to targets. This is more likely an ED thing than an HB thing, but for crying out loud, when Jester's found some armor and I tell the wingman to engage ground targets, I don't need an "unable" like he can't see something. They exist and we would have made that clear. He needs to start looking for some.

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20 hours ago, Super Grover said:

Jester loved his new skills so much that he doesn't want to share the LANTIRN stick any more. If you want to operate the pod yourself, you may want to disable Jester from the "crew contract" submenu.

I wouldn't dare turning Jester off, I just assume he would say "Sorry dave, I'm afraid I can't do that". Plus he's very useful with the LANTIRN, it's just that this works from air start, so I it's probably a bug.

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vor 15 Stunden schrieb Super Grover:

I'm sorry, I must have missed that when quoting the messages to respond, but I clearly remember I wanted to answer this.

That sounds like a good idea. I may add a bit of dead zone at the edge to get the full rate if you want, but make the rates zero outside of the circle. Adding it to ma todo list.

Not sure speeding up the rate towards the edges is a good idea, as glancing at instruments would always cross the "full-rate" zone on the edge. That may slew the cross a bit too far away. The current rate combined with quick head movement should leave the cross pretty close to the intended ground track.

The idea is to quickly check something or flip a switch in the cockpit and when you look back inside the circle it picks up close from where you left the cross.

So the workflow would be slew the cross over a compound, move head up and fly the aircraft to a position to peek into the walls/entrance, head down into the circle again and slew onto the target. Glance at speed, course and altitude for roll in parameters, if it's ok head down and designate - if not go around and reposition, then fine tune the cross and designate... All without the need to call the menu more than once, when selecting head control.


Edited by shagrat

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2 hours ago, Swordsman422 said:

Using the Jester LANTIRN has freed up brain cycles to realize how glaringly oblivious the wingman is to targets. This is more likely an ED thing than an HB thing, but for crying out loud, when Jester's found some armor and I tell the wingman to engage ground targets, I don't need an "unable" like he can't see something. They exist and we would have made that clear. He needs to start looking for some.

A lot of this may be down to Mission Editor settings as well. I found that you have to be super precise with what you tell any group, including your own fight, to do, and mission makers often don't do it (even e.g. HB in the Viggen Caucasus campaigns - the wingman in there almost never does his job properly).

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vor 7 Minuten schrieb Super Grover:

Ah, but it already works that way. The distance between the centre of the VDI and the dot is proportional to the slewing rate. So the closer the dot to the edge of the big circle, the faster the pod is moving.

Yep, and the rate is perfect as it is. Ahh, wait a minute. You mean a zone on the edge, were you could keep full slew rate, so you don't need to be perfectly aligned with the circle! Sorry, yes, that's a good idea. 👍🏻

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Yes, now it's 100% exactly over the line and outside of the circle. I proposed that I move 100% a bit away from the edge towards the centre (so you can still easily hit 100% and not 90%+ ) and null the rate outside the circle.


Edited by Super Grover
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Could you train him to use wide FOV only when searching and upon acquisition go to narrow FOV to aid in target identification?

As virtual pilot in command, weapons release is my responsibility and looking in my Lantirn display only to see a small undefined speck of a thermal is concerning for having a positive VID on a target, my eyes on the sceen as pilot should serve as a final check that we do indeed have the correct target designated.

Right now as it stands, all I can discern is some kind of heat source but I can't see much of a shape or outline to it to discern is it a scud missile launcher or a school bus lol.

Maybe add it as a crew contract option if it's undesirable to have him do that by default. But I think definitely for an attack run he should try to get as detailed view of his acquisition object as possible. Maybe tie it into a function of if master arm is enabled, which indicates to jester that the pilot wishes to engage.

So maybe master arm off= current behavior and master arm on = Jester tries to get maximum clarity on target, within limits of Lantirn capabilities. And if player pilot wishes to expand the view again to get overall overview of other targets around the acquired one then all the player has to do is cycle the master arm to off.

IRL, don't they leave master arm off until just prior to attack run/weapon release, anyways?

ea38ccb47d5e50f2a38732a57219e7018995d157

Jester may be seeing something like this in the back, but up front I don't, all I see is some small square undefined speck/square without a turret. Furthermore, the green display I have up front requires me to fiddle around with brightness and contrast of my repeater so it actually becomes more usable to see steering and time to drop indications.

But yes it would make me far more comfortable for weapons release if I could look at my repeater screen and be like "Yup! Them are tanks Jester! Let's knock em out!" Because, I can make out like that image above the tell tale signs of a hull and turret from the image. I maybe can't tell exactly what make and model tank it is, but I should tell it is a tank of some sort.

And if after bomb impact, he can stay in that narrow FOV so I can see if we had effect on target or if the bomb missed and I need to drop another, or maybe the bomb hit but the target was not completely destroyed but only damaged, etc... I know he uses voice lines to indicate some of such, but it would add the feeling of being part of a crew if I too can verify him by seeing on my repeater screen as well. Not that I don't trust Jester, mind you.

Ideas like that are what immediately come to my mind.


Edited by Baz000
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3 hours ago, Baz000 said:

Maybe tie it into a function of if master arm is enabled, which indicates to jester that the pilot wishes to engage.

So you want Jester to look over your shoulder all the time to check your Master Arm switch position instead of looking at the fish-bowl?

And MA On is part of the fence in procedure not something to fiddle with afaik.

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Granted, it is during a training evolution flight at a range, but I have seen master arm get switched on during a dive for weapons release, certainly different for combat in theatre.

As far as looking at the master arm switch constantly from the back seat, wouldn't the pilot just say "master arm on, master arm on" like you hear in the tapes from the gulf of Sidra incident? In that particular situation there was no fence in push point per say, they were running a tactical intercept (although really they weren't trying to, but the MiGs were running one on them, constantly jinking collision course into them) so their decision was different and based on timelines and authorizations.

I'm just trying to determine an intuitive way for Jester to know how to focus and "zoom" in on a target to aid for VID, engagement and immediate BDA if a follow on attack is necessary and can be performed. I was just thinking how to tell him this without really outright telling him through the menu.

Nothing says I wanna put warheads on foreheads quite like master arm set to on... I think Jester would get the hint quick in the back, and go from an overall area scan with the pod to now a singular focus of putting his maximum attention to getting that bomb on target, and giving us the best visual signature and clarity possible (within limitations of the Lantirn pod) so we can get good BDA (bomb damage assessment)


Edited by Baz000
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