Tanker Orbit ME Control

[Swift.]

Reading up on real world tanker rendezvous, there appears to be only one that might be feasible within DCS. Namely RV Echo.

However this rendezvous requires the tanker to pass through the RVCP at a specific time and maintain a specific track tempo.

The request being made here is that we have the ability to control the bank angle of the tanker that it will hold throughout the fuelling process. So we can set 30AOB and it will never turn with anything other than that bank.

The effects of this change will mean we can have a consistent time per orbit and allow us to properly execute tanker rendezvous using at least some semblance of real world procedure.

[Chain_1]

135 guy here.  Echo is used mostly for dragging fighters from one place to another, e.g. from their home base to an exercise.  To meet that timing we adjust our takeoff time.  Orbiting at the ARCP is done in RV Delta (point parallel).  RV Alpha is the most common with fighters.  With the new draw tool coming out, folks can make refueling areas on the map.  Your suggestion to manipulate the tanker AOB is still a good idea because the area may be more limited in terms of space, requiring a higher AOB, depending on the situations the mission maker has in mind.

Edited October 15, 2021 by Chain_1

[Swift.]

On 10/14/2021 at 3:04 AM, Chain_1 said:

135 guy here.  Echo is used mostly for dragging fighters from one place to another, e.g. from their home base to an exercise.  To meet that timing we adjust our takeoff time.  Orbiting at the ARCP is done in RV Delta (point parallel).  RV Alpha is the most common with fighters.  With the new draw tool coming out, folks can make refueling areas on the map.  Your suggestion to manipulate the tanker AOB is still a good idea because the area may be more limited in terms of space, requiring a higher AOB, depending on the situations the mission maker has in mind.

 

I mentioned Echo because its described as 'used in tactical situations where it is necessary to have a tanker available with which receivers can RV in a known area on an opportunity basis' which seemed most appropriate to DCS.

I personally won't be trusting an AI to do Delta properly. I'm curious however what the difference is between Alpha and Echo. From what I can gather Alpha is controlled by an external radar station, where Echo is more self contained.

Also its interesting to hear that Echo is used to drag fighters around when I would have imagined Foxtrot would be the one for that.

 

I'm curious to hear what you think the most appropriate RV would be for the DCS environment where you have a dumb tanker that wont be moving and no external intercept control.

[Chain_1]

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you, man.  Work has been nuts the last couple of weeks. To answer your question, fighter-turn-on or RV Alpha will be the order of the day in DCS.  Like mentioned above, section off a bit of airspace and have the tanker orbit there.  Fighters can fly faster and maneuver harder, so they'll make the rejoin happen.  IRL the tanker can turn early to help expedite the rejoin, but DCS isn't that advanced, I don't think.  

Now for me to eat a bit of crow.  First, a PSA: don't drink and type on the forums.  My brain saw RV Echo and went Echo=E=Enroute, which is not the case.   While I have done Echo before, as a practical consideration it's almost the same as an alpha, that is get to the airspace and wait for your receivers to show up.   For drags, an enroute/Golf rendezvous is the order of the day.  There's also what are called "buddy departures" where we take off right after the receivers and they rejoin almost immediately.  Apologies for the confusion.  You've already been reading the ATP 3.3.4.2, but if you need anything clarified from that let me know.  Everything about a/r as it would happen in game is unclass.

[Swift.]

On 11/9/2021 at 11:18 PM, Chain_1 said:

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you, man.  Work has been nuts the last couple of weeks. To answer your question, fighter-turn-on or RV Alpha will be the order of the day in DCS.  Like mentioned above, section off a bit of airspace and have the tanker orbit there.  Fighters can fly faster and maneuver harder, so they'll make the rejoin happen.  IRL the tanker can turn early to help expedite the rejoin, but DCS isn't that advanced, I don't think.  

Now for me to eat a bit of crow.  First, a PSA: don't drink and type on the forums.  My brain saw RV Echo and went Echo=E=Enroute, which is not the case.   While I have done Echo before, as a practical consideration it's almost the same as an alpha, that is get to the airspace and wait for your receivers to show up.   For drags, an enroute/Golf rendezvous is the order of the day.  There's also what are called "buddy departures" where we take off right after the receivers and they rejoin almost immediately.  Apologies for the confusion.  You've already been reading the ATP 3.3.4.2, but if you need anything clarified from that let me know.  Everything about a/r as it would happen in game is unclass.

Awesome, so it looks like Alpha and Echo are nearly identical with Alpha having the receivers directed in externally, and Echo having the whole thing self contained?

[Tippis]

On 11/10/2021 at 12:18 AM, Chain_1 said:

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you, man.  Work has been nuts the last couple of weeks. To answer your question, fighter-turn-on or RV Alpha will be the order of the day in DCS.  Like mentioned above, section off a bit of airspace and have the tanker orbit there.  Fighters can fly faster and maneuver harder, so they'll make the rejoin happen.  IRL the tanker can turn early to help expedite the rejoin, but DCS isn't that advanced, I don't think. 

You sort of can, but it requires a far more complex setup of the orbit track where, rather than using the “orbit” waypoint action, you set up the entire orbit and its repetition manually. You can then add in a whole bunch of triggered “go to WP” actions to tell the tanker (via comms menu or something) to immediately go to one of those waypoints along the track and proceed from there.

It's a very laborious way of doing it, though, and it also often makes the tanker behaviour through turns a bit aggressive, which was the whole problem to begin with. Not to mention how much players (especially if you do it in an MP environment) can end up screwing themselves and each other over by spamming navigation orders at the poor AI.

[Chain_1]

4 hours ago, Swiftwin9s said:

Awesome, so it looks like Alpha and Echo are nearly identical with Alpha having the receivers directed in externally, and Echo having the whole thing self contained?

More or less, yes.

[TheBigTatanka]

Also a 135 guy here.... I've gotten the DCS tanker to do a delta RV with "unit in zone" and "go to waypoint" commands... But it's a pain.

What we really need is a tanker module for the sim. Being able to go get the fighters, or to hold near them on the edge of your refueling area, and then turn to put them 3-5nm abeam your jet as you turn back to the anchor....that's money.

A smarter tanker AI, and better GCI from the AWACS are two things i would love to see. That, and fix the weak/back-lit light on the right side of the tanker position lights.

Sorry, didn't mean to steer the thread in another direction.... Controlling the bank angle of the tanker, as well as other features would be awesome.



Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[Swift.]

On 11/12/2021 at 5:12 PM, Chain_1 said:

More or less, yes.

Apologies for Necroing this, but I have a question you might be able to answer. AA Tacan on tankers, is it just yardstick (range only), or do tankers have actual beacons onboard to give bearing too?

[Chain_1]

13 hours ago, Swift. said:

Apologies for Necroing this, but I have a question you might be able to answer. AA Tacan on tankers, is it just yardstick (range only), or do tankers have actual beacons onboard to give bearing too?

Range only for the 135.  KC-10s have bearing and distance according to the SRD, but I've never flown on one.  As a practical matter, if you're flying something with a radar, that's what you're going to use anyway.  The only fighters that I remember using TACAN with us were A-10s.