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What countermeasures program do you use in the Viper?


Sneeki
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Hello, i'm curious about how you guys have set up your countermeasures program in the Viper to be most effective? Had some trouble lately breaking SAM locks, despite notching dumping chaff and doing evasive maneuvers. So just looking for some inspiration in a program you have had succes with. Thanks!

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@Sneeki, these are the current programs I run in the F-16, although I'm sure they will be refined when the defensive systems are finalized.

PRGM 1 - Reactive RF Countermeasures (SA-3, SA-6, SA-10)
     CHAFF: BQ 4, BI 1.000, SQ 1, SI 1.00     (4x Chaff total)
     FLARE: (None)
PRGM 2 - Reactive RF Countermeasures (SA-8, SA-11, SA-15, HQ-7)
     CHAFF: BQ 4, BI 0.500, SQ 2, SI 2.00     (8x Chaff total)
     FLARE: (None)
PRGM 3 - Reactive IR Countermeasures
     CHAFF: (None)
     FLARE: BQ 2, BI 0.100, SQ 3, SI 0.50     (6x Flares total)
PRGM 4 - Pre-emptive IR Countermeasures
     CHAFF: (None)
     FLARE: BQ 30, BI 1.000, SQ 1, SI 1.00     (30x Flares total)
PRGM 5 (Slap-button) - ACM Defensive Countermeasures
     CHAFF: BQ 2, BI 0.100, SQ 3, SI 0.50     (6x Chaff total)
     FLARE: BQ 2, BI 0.100, SQ 3, SI 0.50     (6x Flares total)


Edited by Raptor9
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Afterburners are for wussies...hang around the battlefield and dodge tracers like a man.

DCS Rotor-Head

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P 1 > chaff = {
        burstQty     = 1,
        burstIntv    = 0.02,
        salvoQty    = 4,
        salvoIntv    = 0.75,

    },

 

P 2 > flare = {
        burstQty    = 1,
        burstIntv    = 0.02,
        salvoQty    = 4,
        salvoIntv    = 0.5,
    },

P 3 > chaff = {
        burstQty     = 1,
        burstIntv    = 0.1,
        salvoQty    = 5,
        salvoIntv    = 0.75,
    },
    flare = {
        burstQty    = 1,
        burstIntv    = 0.1,
        salvoQty    = 5,
        salvoIntv    = 0.75,
    },

P 4 > flare = {
        burstQty    = 1,
        burstIntv    = 0.1,
        salvoQty    = 10,
        salvoIntv    = 1.0,
    },
}

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I only use two programs, program 1 and program 5. Having to rotate the knob to swich between 1 and 4 is inefficient and will get you killed in certain situations. 

Since I have a warthog stick I use CMS forward for program 1, and CMS depress for program 5 (in the jet it's called "slap button", aka "chaff/flare release" in controls manager). CMS left, right, and aft are all binded but they don't have any functions in DCS right now since they are WIP. 

 

Program 1 is my chaff program. Program 5 is my flare program. There's no need to setup a program that has chaff and flare mixed since I know what is shooting at me or what may be shooting at me (IRs like manpads and ETs). Only 60 chaff and 60 flares you can bring on the jet so releasing them mixed is a waste. You need to learn to know what is shooting at you. 

 

Program 1 bursts 3 chaffs with a interval of 0.2 seconds. Single sequence no repeat. 

Program 5 bursts 5 flares with a interval of 0.2 seconds. Single sequence no repeat. 

On 10/10/2021 at 5:13 AM, Sneeki said:

Hello, i'm curious about how you guys have set up your countermeasures program in the Viper to be most effective? Had some trouble lately breaking SAM locks, despite notching dumping chaff and doing evasive maneuvers. So just looking for some inspiration in a program you have had succes with. Thanks!

The most effective way to defeat radar guided SAMs in DCS is manuvering and terrian masking. You can out-engergy it, hide from it, or in very close ranges, out-manuver it (depends on the SAM type of course). Dropping chaff might help, but it's a waste. Save your chaff for AA engagements. 

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It's all about planning ahead. I agree you shouldn't be trying to rotate a manual program knob while reacting to an imminent threat, but that's another application for the slap button. If you are staying ahead of the aircraft, and thinking logically about what is coming next and what you intend to do about it, you shouldn't be waiting until a threat is putting you on the defensive to think about what you are going to do about it.

 

If I'm on a Wild Weasel mission and I'm inbound to the target area, even if my intel isn't accurate and a radar pops online that I wasn't expecting, I still have plenty of time at the onset of an RWR indication to rotate my knob between my two different chaff programs, each I tested extensively to defeat certain types. Likewise, if I know I have to drop down into MANPAD/IR threat range, I'll rotate it to the reactionary flare program, and if I am committing to my bombing run over a target, I'll flip it to my preemptive flare program to cover my run.

 

If at any point I get fired at by a weapon I wasn't expecting, I still have that slap button that puts out several salvos of chaff and flares rapidly, which may expend more countermeasures than what I would want at any other point, but it is about surviving that surprise engagement at that moment, just like if I were in a WVR merge.

 

Not to say my way or the highway, everyone should set up their aircraft to suit their style of fighting. But like so many other things in combat, absolute statements or one-size-fits-all solutions aren't very conducive to tactical effectiveness. Planning and thinking ahead for a given mission is the best course of action.


Edited by Raptor9
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Afterburners are for wussies...hang around the battlefield and dodge tracers like a man.

DCS Rotor-Head

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22 minutes ago, Raptor9 said:

Not to say my way or the highway, everyone should set up their aircraft to suit their style of fighting. But like so many other things in combat, absolute statements or one-size-fits-all solutions aren't very conducive to tactical effectiveness. Planning and thinking ahead for a given mission is the best course of action.

Totally agree. It's all up to personal preference. Planning and setting countermeasure programs would be great if we have DTC implemented, like in BMS. Right now we can only edit the lua file or do it manually in the jet. Both ways are troublesome. 

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I like Program 3.  I don't put a lot of radar guided A-A missiles in my missions.  I'm also frugal with my stores.  I used to dial in a 2 and 2 program, but I don't like that much buttonology these days.  🤣  You can make 60 last for quite a while.  With PGM 3, I usually run dry of countermeasures.  I like to keep it simple.  When I hear Betty call "Low" it would be nice to switch to a 2 and 2 program, but with PGM 3 you get the same level of protection for a shorter duration.  With PGM 3 when you hear "Low" it's time to go. 😆

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On 10/11/2021 at 2:29 AM, SCPanda said:

I only use two programs, program 1 and program 5. Having to rotate the knob to swich between 1 and 4 is inefficient and will get you killed in certain situations. 

Since I have a warthog stick I use CMS forward for program 1, and CMS depress for program 5 (in the jet it's called "slap button", aka "chaff/flare release" in controls manager). CMS left, right, and aft are all binded but they don't have any functions in DCS right now since they are WIP. 

 

Program 1 is my chaff program. Program 5 is my flare program. There's no need to setup a program that has chaff and flare mixed since I know what is shooting at me or what may be shooting at me (IRs like manpads and ETs). Only 60 chaff and 60 flares you can bring on the jet so releasing them mixed is a waste. You need to learn to know what is shooting at you. 

 

Program 1 bursts 3 chaffs with a interval of 0.2 seconds. Single sequence no repeat. 

Program 5 bursts 5 flares with a interval of 0.2 seconds. Single sequence no repeat. 

The most effective way to defeat radar guided SAMs in DCS is manuvering and terrian masking. You can out-engergy it, hide from it, or in very close ranges, out-manuver it (depends on the SAM type of course). Dropping chaff might help, but it's a waste. Save your chaff for AA engagements. 

I do mine the same way, chaff only program or flare only program is the wall dispense but instead of mapping cms left, right or aft, I mapped program knob cw and ccw to the left and right directions so I can switch programs without going head down. 


Edited by Skwirl865
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10 hours ago, Skwirl865 said:

I do mine the same way, chaff only program or flare only program is the wall dispense but instead of mapping cms left, right or aft, I mapped program knob cw and ccw to the left and right directions so I can switch programs without going head down. 

 

Nice idea! 

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15 hours ago, Skwirl865 said:

 but instead of mapping cms left, right or aft, I mapped program knob cw and ccw to the left and right directions so I can switch programs without going head down.

I have my left, aft, and right set to PRGM 1, 2 and 3 respectively, since those are my primary reactive countermeasure programs. This way in case I forget what PRGM I'm on in the heat of the moment, I just press which one I want and then CMS Up to dispense.

This muscle memory is reinforced every time I pop expendables, and it doesn't matter if the PRGM is already set to what I want, or if I'm on PRGM 4 (my preemtive flares) and need to rapidly go to PRGM 1. two CMS commands to dispense every time, easy peasy.

Obviously this setup will evolve when we get the rest of the F-16's defensive systems, like the Semi/Auto modes and the Jammer pod.

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Afterburners are for wussies...hang around the battlefield and dodge tracers like a man.

DCS Rotor-Head

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