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Varjo Review


Mars Exulte
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11 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

I’ve used VR headsets at work. I know what they’re like. And I can’t see the company spending that much on one either. And the subscription? What does that get you, tech support? Covid has also ended the idea of sharing these too, ah the innocent days of 2019 passing the Oculus around for everyone to use. That ain’t happening anymore. 

 

LOL not many here would go for the Varjo so you can take that out of the equation.

Lots of folks though enjoying the heck out of VR on a daily basis as can be seen on these and many other forums. 

VR is not for you - not sure why VR forums are...

 

And no you don't use VR. Last I saw you post on that was quite some time ago with first generation headset.

But enjoy your stay here in the - VR forums.

:smilewink:

 


Edited by dburne
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Don B

 

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Always interesting to read comments on VR by users who - don't use VR.
:smilewink:
Maybe those users are fed up with the trainwreck that is DCS VR?

Just in case. 3090/Pimax8KX user here. Mostly fly flat screen for a number of reasons.

Until I get native HMD FPS within DCS, I'm gonna be finding myself flying flatscreen more often than not.

VR should provide a lag-free and hassle-free experience. Something current-gen VR does not provide. Only hardcore users are dedicated enough to jump through all these hoops. VR shaders, fsr mods, endless tweaking, etc, etc.

VR just isn't there. Those who enjoy it are just optimistic. I believe ED will continue to push the envelope while aiming at flat screen as their performance target and we won't get 90fps/high settings in the foreseeable future.

Sorry for the OT. But that 800$ sub fee is something no sane person would pay... Let's get real here.
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My controls & seat

 

Main controls: , BRD-N v4 Flightstick (Kreml C5 controller), TM Warthog Throttle (Kreml F3 controller), BRD-F2 Restyling Bf-109 Pedals w. damper, TrackIR5, Gametrix KW-908 (integrated into RAV4 seat)

Stick grips:

Thrustmaster Warthog

Thrustmaster Cougar (x2)

Thrustmaster F-16 FLCS

BRD KG13

 

Standby controls:

BRD-M2 Mi-8 Pedals (Ruddermaster controller)

BRD-N v3 Flightstick w. exch. grip upgrade (Kreml C5 controller)

Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle

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On 10/1/2021 at 12:58 PM, dburne said:

Always interesting to read comments on VR by users who - don't use VR.

:smilewink:

Isn't it though?  I think I'm going to start going to the TrackIR forums to tell everybody how much I dislike TrackIR, even though I haven't used it in more than 7 years.  I'm quite certain that my insights would be valuable.  But, first thing's first, I'm late for the Neurosurgery Symposium that I was invited to speak at.  Don't know the first thing about Neurosurgery either, but they still think my opinions are worthwhile for some strange reason.  Go figure.  LOL.

😎

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44 minutes ago, WelshZeCorgi said:

For me, VR definitely is "there", but it's not "there, there". It has juuuust enough positives that I will use it, but not enough positives that I won't find something that annoys me every time I do. 

That's the way I see it too.  I've been into this sim long enough to remember the days when even the 2D performance left a lot to be desired, but things eventually got better.  I love flying in VR, its really the only way I can anymore, and I understand the limitations that we have currently.  I'm leaps and bounds ahead of where I was with VR just a few short years ago, and it was mostly the ever-evolving display technology that has made things progressively better.

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12 minutes ago, eaglecash867 said:

Isn't it though?

I didn’t say I dislike VR. I think it’s great for what I’ve used it for. I think it’s success in the gaming sector is far from certain though. You don’t have to plug one into DCS to figure that out. 

15 minutes ago, eaglecash867 said:

I'm late for the Neurosurgery Symposium that I was invited to speak at.

Looking at the performance tweaking threads I think a Neurosurgery degree would be a good prerequisite for using VR 😶

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25 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

I didn’t say I dislike VR. I think it’s great for what I’ve used it for. I think it’s success in the gaming sector is far from certain though. You don’t have to plug one into DCS to figure that out. 

 

 

Shhh don't tell MS or Asobo that...

The gaming sector is what brung em to the party. 

Don B

 

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29 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

Shhh don't tell MS or Asobo that...

The gaming sector is what brung em to the party. 

I would be really curious to see if MSFS becomes the “killer app” that VR has been waiting for. Remember though that MSFS wasn’t going to support VR at all initially, they didn’t even think the interest was there. There is still no VR for the Xbox at all. 

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4 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

I would be really curious to see if MSFS becomes the “killer app” that VR has been waiting for. Remember though that MSFS wasn’t going to support VR at all initially, they didn’t even think the interest was there. There is still no VR for the Xbox at all. 

 

Why no silly, it is never all about one game or one app. If that is what you are waiting for, hang it up.

Just pointing out that VR is popular enough to convince MS to spend the money to bring MSFS 2020 into VR. That is no small deal. It is actually one very big deal.  But they did and did a great job with it.

 

Valve is working on some very exciting stuff for VR now also which hopefully will be revealed sooner rather than later. But who knows with Valve they work on their own time line. And then there is Oculus Connect coming up the 28th which should have some interesting stuff in it and share the direction they are looking at going. Seems there will be at least some info on 2 more headsets they are planning. Quest Pro has been talked about and perks my interest a little.

 

 

Don B

 

My VKB Gunfighter MK III Pro L Review

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.2 GHz | EVGA RTX 3090 FTW3 Ultra | 32 GB G Skill Trident Z 3200 MHz CL14 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |VKB GF MK III Pro L Ultimate Grip| Virpil CM3 Throttle |Reverb G2 | Valve Index| Vive Pro 2 |

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4 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

 

Looking at the performance tweaking threads I think a Neurosurgery degree would be a good prerequisite for using VR 😶

Nah.  Those threads make it look more complicated than it actually is.  You can get it working reasonably well with some very simple changes.  For me it has been all about feel and making small, incremental changes.  I've never been into using frame counters and the like.  Those tend to set you up for disappointment as you chase some ideal number dragon that you saw some other guy manage to catch once.

ASRock Z370 Professional Gaming i7, Intel i7 8700K Coffee Lake processor @4.7GHz, Corsair H105 Liquid Cooler, G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 64GB DDR4 3400 memory, EVGA RTX3090 FTW3 Ultra 24GB video card, Samsung 840PRO 256MB SSD for Windows 10 64-bit OS, Samsung 850PRO 2TB SSD for program files, LG WH14NS40 Blu-Ray burner. HOTAS Warthog, Saitek Pedals, HP Reverb G2. Partridge and pear tree pending. pilotfly.gif

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13 minutes ago, eaglecash867 said:

Nah.  Those threads make it look more complicated than it actually is.  You can get it working reasonably well with some very simple changes.  For me it has been all about feel and making small, incremental changes.  I've never been into using frame counters and the like.  Those tend to set you up for disappointment as you chase some ideal number dragon that you saw some other guy manage to catch once.

 

My VR Progression.

Rift CV1 - Rift S - Quest - Valve Index - HP Reverb G2 - Vive Pro 2.

For each of these, the time I spent setting them up the way I liked them was miniscule, almost nothing, compared to all the hours of enjoyment I have gotten out of them. 

It just ain't that hard. 

 

In fact I spend way more time fiddling around with DCS settings and adjusting my controller buttons to where I like than I ever spent on setting up any one of these headsets. And if I can do it - trust me anyone can.

Some just prefer not to get into VR, but thoroughly enjoy critiquing it to no end. 

 

 

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My VKB Gunfighter MK III Pro L Review

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11 hours ago, dburne said:

 

Some just prefer not to get into VR, but thoroughly enjoy critiquing it to no end. 

 

Those don't bother me nearly as much as the posts from a few that are determined to be unhappy with VR, yet they keep upgrading all of their equipment for VR...and then want to come back here every couple of months to blame everybody here for the decisions that they chose to make, claiming to have spent "countless hours tweaking based on misinformation".  Those posts are usually accompanied by multi-paragraph lectures about how things "actually work", as if everybody who is reasonably happy with their experience is suffering from delusions.

 

As for the Varjo, its too rich for my blood, but its a peek at the kinds of ideas people are coming up with for making retinal resolution possible.  As with all other developments in technology, the price is high now, but it will come down as things become easier and less costly to produce.  I see the Varjo as the hand-built, high performance car that will end up paving the way for mass production of Fords and Toyotas in the near future.


Edited by eaglecash867
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Those don't bother me nearly as much as the posts from a few that are determined to be unhappy with VR, yet they keep upgrading all of their equipment for VR...and then want to come back here every couple of months to blame everybody here for the decisions that they chose to make, claiming to have spent "countless hours tweaking based on misinformation".  Those posts are usually accompanied by multi-paragraph lectures about how things "actually work", as if everybody who is reasonably happy with their experience is suffering from delusions.
 
As for the Varjo, its too rich for my blood, but its a peek at the kinds of ideas people are coming up with for making retinal resolution possible.  As with all other developments in technology, the price is high now, but it will come down as things become easier and less costly to produce.  I see the Varjo as the hand-built, high performance car that will end up paving the way for mass production of Fords and Toyotas in the near future.


Why does it bother you so much? It's not our fault you have such low expectations. DCS VR experience is sub par to other VR games at the moment.

My controls & seat

 

Main controls: , BRD-N v4 Flightstick (Kreml C5 controller), TM Warthog Throttle (Kreml F3 controller), BRD-F2 Restyling Bf-109 Pedals w. damper, TrackIR5, Gametrix KW-908 (integrated into RAV4 seat)

Stick grips:

Thrustmaster Warthog

Thrustmaster Cougar (x2)

Thrustmaster F-16 FLCS

BRD KG13

 

Standby controls:

BRD-M2 Mi-8 Pedals (Ruddermaster controller)

BRD-N v3 Flightstick w. exch. grip upgrade (Kreml C5 controller)

Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle

Pilot seat

 

 

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3 hours ago, The LT said:


 

 


Why does it bother you so much? It's not our fault you have such low expectations. DCS VR experience is sub par to other VR games at the moment.

 

Correction...I have REALISTIC expectations, knowing what I know about DCS.  Unfortunately, we have to deal with the reality of the situation, rather than how we would like things to be.  Would I like to see DCS allow me to crank everything up to their highest levels?  Of course I would, but it is not currently in the cards, and we have to deal with it if we want to fly DCS in VR.  Regardless of what you think about my standards or those of anybody else here, nobody should be blaming anybody else here for things that are beyond our control.  Some of us are just doing the best with what is available and have helped a lot of people here get a workable result while we wait for perfection.  ED is aware of the issues...a solution may or may not be close at hand.  A lot of the guys here who are actually putting in the work to figure out what is and isn't having an effect on performance are providing valuable data on where the weak links are in the chain.  With that data, the product can improve.  That approach is always going to be much more effective than idle complaining.  If you don't like DCS in VR, then don't fly it in VR.

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My question is, what happens if you let the yearly subscription fee for the XR/VR 3 expire? Does the headset self-destruct? Refuses to power on? Shows you a literal paywall? Or you can use it, but no more updates to the sets firmware? 

 

A buddy of mine is offering to buy me the VR3 as thanks for getting his a** out of trouble. Not sure if he's serious, but I'm sort of entertaining the thought. 


Edited by WelshZeCorgi
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They might be announcing a consumer-level product soon.

https://www.roadtovr.com/varjo-october-2021-event-product-reveal/

PC: 9900K/3090, 11700K/2080Ti, 8700K/1080.

Joystick bases: TMWx2, VPC WarBRD, MT50CM2, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L

Joystick grips: TM (Warthog, F/A-18C), Realsimulator (F-16SGRH, F-18CGRH), VKB (Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro), VPC MongoosT50-CM2

Throttles: TMWx2, Winwing Super Taurus, Logitech Throttle Quadrant, Realsimulator RS Linear Throttle (soon)

VR: HTC Vive/Pro/Pro 2, Oculus Rift/Quest 2, Valve Index

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I´m a newbie here on forum (so sorry for my bad english and maybe other mistakes), but well..maybe someone is interested on my experience with the Vario VR-3. We had this model in our company, so I could tested it in DCS World Open Beta (and MSFS) for some time. I was interested because Varjo maked an announcement by supporting DCS https://varjo.com/varjo-ready-software/ ("..XR-3 AND VR-3 SUPPORT IN DEVELOPMENT “Together, Varjo and DCS World Open Beta offer the highest definition, realistic human-eye resolution experience yet seen in the flight sim market.– Simon Pearson, Business Development Director, Eagle Dynamics), so I wanted to see this result.

The Varjo is running on a high end system (as recommended) with a nivida 3090 and an AMD Ryzen 5090. First impression: Inside VR on the first "HOME-Room" I seen a big distortion from the screen where you can choose the menus and all. Not so nice 😉 ..ok further in the game I can confirm I had the best clear picture I ever seen in VR. And this in a "normal" mode, means the foveated rendering in the middle is not activated because I guess DCS not supported this in the moment. Don't want imagine when they will activate this in future by a software solution - must be incredible clear than. I really hope they work on this 🙂  But even without the foveated rendering all is super clear, sharp and have amazing colours (special in MSFS).

The bad thing: Still a lot of distortions in the game. Ok, you can say..hey, its an industrial headset, but when they announce that they have a connection with DCS, distortions should not be seeing. Here ist still some work to do, I am waiting for the next updates. The game runs with 100% rendering scale in the Varjo Base Software and same time in the Steam VR Software and with this the game will running without stuttering and good fps (not so good like with the Reverb 2, but you have a smooth flight)., but than you have not the full range and advantage of the clarity of cause.

At the end: this headset is a hungry beast. Without high end systems its not working and also with a 3090 you are on the limit. Renderscaling in the Varjo Base Software over 100% nearly impossible to enjoy a flight. I am sure in this month they will make the step in the consumer market, will be interesting what we can expect and see. For the consumer market the headset must be more lighter (long flights not so comfortable for head and neck) and the distortions are a "no go" special for dogfights and kind of this (or you like to vomit in your virtual cockpit ;), also it must be "playable" for consumers who have not such high end systems. Interesting what than we will see of reduces in sharpness and clear pictures, because just this is the big plus of this headset.

ok, this just a short review, because the original topic was here in the forum "Varjo Review"

over and out and greets the community 

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On 10/1/2021 at 3:28 AM, Mars Exulte said:

You mean like $400-600 gaming console? Or a $1000+ stereo system? It is not ''like a DVD player'', it is a considerably more important device than that, literally it's a screen/monitor/TV only attached on your face.

 

  Gaming peripherals to the general public are $40 gamepads. The Rift S IS about $300. It's also a mediocre device. That option literally already exists. Shitty headsets will likely continue to be available for the forseeable future. Decent ones will continue to be more expensive... just like GASP decent joysticks (Warthog $400-500 HOTAS, VKB $500 stick and base, etc).

 

  Which puts it just above Spotify and Netflix in my monthly bills but a bit below my internet and WAY below my phone bill, credit cards, etc. Oh dear, THE HORROR!

Varjo VR3 is 150€ ($175?) per month with 3 year subscription. It is pretty high. It doubles your sim budjet but it may be acceptable. Yoy get less than one hour of IRL flying with cessna 172 for 150€ and almost 2h per month with Ikarus C42. I have noticed that it is better to compare to IRL flying what comes about cost. At least I do when I speak with my spouse 😁

Would you fly IRL 20 hours per year less to get Varjo?


Edited by Lucidus

Specs: Ryzen 3800X, 32 GB RAM, Geforce GTX 1080Ti, Reverb G1, Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog, MFG Crosswind rudder pedals

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8 hours ago, Lucidus said:

Yoy get less than one hour of IRL flying with cessna 172 for 150€ and almost 2h per month with Ikarus C42. I have noticed that it is better to compare to IRL flying what comes about cost. At least I do when I speak with my spouse 

Mind you, we don't fly Cessnas or Ikarus in DCS, so you rather should compare it to 25 minutes of MiG-29 flight for € 12,500  (btw, that's the tag for a subsonic flight). 😂
The most convincing argument for my spouse is not the money, but how much more ecological it is when I 'fly' on our own solar panels instead of burning hundreds of gallons kerosin with afterburner. 🙃. Always can catch her... 😇

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On 10/14/2021 at 10:45 AM, J-1775 said:

Mind you, we don't fly Cessnas or Ikarus in DCS, so you rather should compare it to 25 minutes of MiG-29 flight for € 12,500  (btw, that's the tag for a subsonic flight). 😂
The most convincing argument for my spouse is not the money, but how much more ecological it is when I 'fly' on our own solar panels instead of burning hundreds of gallons kerosin with afterburner. 🙃. Always can catch her... 😇

Yup.  Another DCS aircraft, the L-39, is an absolute joy to fly in IRL.  But fuel alone costs $1000.00 for every hour of flight.  I'm always happy to go on test flights in those with my customers. :pilotfly:

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Yup.  Another DCS aircraft, the L-39, is an absolute joy to fly in IRL.  But fuel alone costs $1000.00 for every hour of flight.  I'm always happy to go on test flights in those with my customers. :pilotfly:
I can imagine. And in another life I was happy when my yearly commuting gas bill didn't exceed 15000.

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

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On 10/4/2021 at 5:36 PM, dburne said:

 

My VR Progression.

Rift CV1 - Rift S - Quest - Valve Index - HP Reverb G2 - Vive Pro 2.

For each of these, the time I spent setting them up the way I liked them was miniscule, almost nothing, compared to all the hours of enjoyment I have gotten out of them. 

It just ain't that hard. 

 

In fact I spend way more time fiddling around with DCS settings and adjusting my controller buttons to where I like than I ever spent on setting up any one of these headsets. And if I can do it - trust me anyone can.

Some just prefer not to get into VR, but thoroughly enjoy critiquing it to no end. 

 

 

 

I've spent more time remapping my planes after ED periodically nukes the bindings than I have setting up my VR headsets.

 

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

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On 10/24/2021 at 8:24 AM, IkarusC42B Pilot said:

Bs. Unless you rent it and pay the owner to fly with you and hes using 100ll its nowhere near that expensive. 

It is a club non-profit rent price (all included) in Finland. I think cost is not bad. If you buy a plane it costs far more than that.


Edited by Lucidus
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