Infantry Playable ?

[Sierr4]

Hello everyone,

someone has already managed to make the infantry playable?

The "stingers" are, but not the pure infantry.

I try a lot of things to make the infantries playable but nothing helps ..

 

the best I managed to do is take control of an M4 unit but cannot move because it falls to the ground (it does not die) and not possible to shoot with it as well.

[Silver_Dragon]

7 minutes ago, Sierr4 said:

Hello everyone,

someone has already managed to make the infantry playable?

The "stingers" are, but not the pure infantry.

I try a lot of things to make the infantries playable but nothing helps ..

 

the best I managed to do is take control of an M4 unit but cannot move because it falls to the ground (it does not die) and not possible to shoot with it as well.

 

Actually has none to do a pure infantry, that feature has hardcoded into Combined Arms.

 

ED has none planned a FPS, on fact, they has been talked on a AMA, meanwhile a profesional client dont require a FPS, they dont make them as a module or feature on DCS.

Edited September 29, 2021 by Silver_Dragon

[Mr_sukebe]

Let’s hope that ED don’t get some bright idea as Frontier did for Elite and spend a shed load of time implementing something that really didn’t seem necessary 

[THERION]

42 minutes ago, Sierr4 said:

Hello everyone,

someone has already managed to make the infantry playable?

The "stingers" are, but not the pure infantry.

I try a lot of things to make the infantries playable but nothing helps ..

 

the best I managed to do is take control of an M4 unit but cannot move because it falls to the ground (it does not die) and not possible to shoot with it as well.

 

If you want to play with infantry, there are a plethora of FPS games around - some very good ones. I don't see the necessity in FPS ability for DCS - waste of time
and waste of money if you ask me. I've never been fond of "jack in all trades" solutions.

[Sierr4]

I need to play infantry to make some mission with comando.

i not really need to shoot with him but i need to play with to mark some target and give the situation awarness by the ground with CA.

Actually we can make this only with stinger or vehicle. JTAC infantry is not playable and i think it's shame ..

[Mr_sukebe]

Use a Humvee to spot, job done

[Callsign112]

5 hours ago, Sierr4 said:

I need to play infantry to make some mission with comando.

i not really need to shoot with him but i need to play with to mark some target and give the situation awarness by the ground with CA.

Actually we can make this only with stinger or vehicle. JTAC infantry is not playable and i think it's shame ..

I quite agree with your suggestion in the sense that I would really like to see a much improved AI infantry in the game. As a combat simulator, DCS World would be much more immersive if it had a more capable AI infantry to bring the ground war to life. But to address what you are trying to do, if I understand you correctly, you want an AI infantry unit to act as a JTAC. I am far from being anything close to good with the mission editor, but couldn't you use an area trigger zone to do what you are looking for? You could place an infantry unit in a convenient location so that it looks like it was marking the targets, but I think you will sort of reach what you are trying to achieve. 

 

But this is just an example of how the AI infantry could be improved. For starters, you can't give an AI infantry a movement way-point where it uses stealth to conceal its location as best it can while moving. And while I want to see the real player focus remain on the highly detailed vehicles (aircraft/tanks/ships), a more capable AI infantry would add a great deal to the simulation. It would be great if the real player acting as JTAC in a plane/vehicle was able to command a more capable single/group of infantry.

 

Currently playing with combined arms allows you to set way points for AI infantry to follow. And if an AI infantry encounters an enemy unit en route, it can fire/return fire/hold. I think it should be possible to add conceal/laze to the list of things AI infantry could do. 

[Sierr4]

20 hours ago, Callsign112 said:

I quite agree with your suggestion in the sense that I would really like to see a much improved AI infantry in the game. As a combat simulator, DCS World would be much more immersive if it had a more capable AI infantry to bring the ground war to life. But to address what you are trying to do, if I understand you correctly, you want an AI infantry unit to act as a JTAC. I am far from being anything close to good with the mission editor, but couldn't you use an area trigger zone to do what you are looking for? You could place an infantry unit in a convenient location so that it looks like it was marking the targets, but I think you will sort of reach what you are trying to achieve. 

 

But this is just an example of how the AI infantry could be improved. For starters, you can't give an AI infantry a movement way-point where it uses stealth to conceal its location as best it can while moving. And while I want to see the real player focus remain on the highly detailed vehicles (aircraft/tanks/ships), a more capable AI infantry would add a great deal to the simulation. It would be great if the real player acting as JTAC in a plane/vehicle was able to command a more capable single/group of infantry.

 

Currently playing with combined arms allows you to set way points for AI infantry to follow. And if an AI infantry encounters an enemy unit en route, it can fire/return fire/hold. I think it should be possible to add conceal/laze to the list of things AI infantry could do. 

For futurs missions i would like use a infantry playable in montain and forest to spot enemies, use a vehicle in montain and forest is really hard and not really useless ..

And is more immersive .. make a mission like somes videos with A-10 for example. IA is really bad .. but a human on the ground is really more effecience for the immersive.

[Japo32]

I am sorry to hear people "don't waste time and money with this feature as it is not necesary". Of course it is not necesary to them, but it would add some interesting playability.

Of course I think we are not talking about making here an ARMA3 game, but I think there are some points that would be great to be improved:

 

1. When we bail out from our aircrafts, I would love to remove the joystick/pedals motion of the character, and introduce the WASD one with mouse as a FPS game. Also running possible. Why? because sometimes we have simulated SARs missions with my friends, and that motion controls would help a lot. I don't remember if Combined arms vehicle motion allows to be by WASD also.

 

2. Those bailed pilots be spoted as enemies by other infantry or armor (or helos) so can be killed. That way our "mission" to survive would be more fun.

 

3. Not necesary to allow those bailed pilots to use their rifles, but there are examples of non infantry simulators that do a decent job using rifles. Very simple characteristics. Nothing complex (remember that in the apache and the Kiowa there are M4 modelled): 

 

 

steel beasts is not the best example to manage the infantry with mouse and keyboard, but at least it have some kind of first person shoot with machineguns.

 

And of course I want ED to pay attention mostly in the important stuff they have to do, specially the dynamic campaign, but I think all these minor changes could be done in a Combined Arms module, that has been forgotten for a long time.

Edited October 1, 2021 by Japo32

[Callsign112]

1 hour ago, Sierr4 said:

For futurs missions i would like use a infantry playable in montain and forest to spot enemies, use a vehicle in montain and forest is really hard and not really useless ..

And is more immersive .. make a mission like somes videos with A-10 for example. IA is really bad .. but a human on the ground is really more effecience for the immersive.

 

53 minutes ago, Japo32 said:

I am sorry to hear people "don't waste time and money with this feature as it is not necesary". Of course it is not necesary to them, but it would add some interesting playability.

Of course I think we are not talking about making here an ARMA3 game, but I think there are some points that would be great to be improved:

 

1. When we bail out from our aircrafts, I would love to remove the joystick/pedals motion of the character, and introduce the WASD one with mouse as a FPS game. Also running possible. Why? because sometimes we have simulated SARs missions with my friends, and that motion controls would help a lot. I don't remember if Combined arms vehicle motion allows to be by WASD also.

 

2. Those bailed pilots be spoted as enemies by other infantry or armor (or helos) so can be killed. That way our "mission" to survive would be more fun.

 

3. Not necesary to allow those bailed pilots to use their rifles, but there are examples of non infantry simulators that do a decent job using rifles. Very simple characteristics. Nothing complex (remember that in the apache and the Kiowa there are M4 modelled): 

 

 

steel beasts is not the best example to manage the infantry with mouse and keyboard, but at least it have some kind of first person shoot with machineguns.

 

And of course I want ED to pay attention mostly in the important stuff they have to do, specially the dynamic campaign, but I think all these minor changes could be done in a Combined Arms module, that has been forgotten for a long time.

 

I totally agree, and think that ED could add a lot to the simulator by improving infantry unit functionality. I am not so sure that a full blown FPS would be the way to go, but if we consider that progress in the gaming world is usually realized in stages, then it would be nice to at least see some improvement to the AI infantry as a start.

 

For example, if AI infantry were able to crouch/prone, and conceal/lase was added to either the "ROE", or "STATE" logic of the "COMMAND BAR", the @Sierr4 would be able to do exactly the type of mission he is looking for. He could give an infantry unit way points to reach the target area where the infantry unit would then try to conceal itself as it scouts for targets to mark, and if it is spotted by enemy units, it could either retreat, or return fire.

 

The lasing part wouldn't be that hard to do as it would simply be duplicating the feature that already exists for vehicles units. Its the other Crouch/prone/conceal logic that would need to be worked on. My next big interest in DCS is likely going to be rotary winged aircraft, so it would be really nice to see the ground war fleshed out a bit more.

 

@Japo32, yes you can control vehicles with the WASD keys in Combined Arms. And I like you suggestions about improvements to the SIM where the player would be able to try and get his pilot character back to safety. We should be able control a downed pilot like any other AI infantry unit in Combined Arms. I never tried it, but I wonder if you have Combined Arms, does a pilot that bails out show up as an icon on the F10 map? I don't think that it does, but think this should be a feature of Combined Arms.

 

[cfrag]

3 hours ago, Japo32 said:

I am sorry to hear people "don't waste time and money with this feature as it is not necesary". Of course it is not necesary to them, but it would add some interesting playability.

Of course I think we are not talking about making here an ARMA3 game, but I think there are some points that would be great to be improved:

 

1. When we bail out from our aircrafts, I would love to remove the joystick/pedals motion of the character, and introduce the WASD one with mouse as a FPS game. Also running possible. Why? because sometimes we have simulated SARs missions with my friends, and that motion controls would help a lot. I don't remember if Combined arms vehicle motion allows to be by WASD also.

 

2. Those bailed pilots be spoted as enemies by other infantry or armor (or helos) so can be killed. That way our "mission" to survive would be more fun.

 

3. Not necesary to allow those bailed pilots to use their rifles, but there are examples of non infantry simulators that do a decent job using rifles. Very simple characteristics. Nothing complex (remember that in the apache and the Kiowa there are M4 modelled): 

steel beasts is not the best example to manage the infantry with mouse and keyboard, but at least it have some kind of first person shoot with machineguns.

 

And of course I want ED to pay attention mostly in the important stuff they have to do, specially the dynamic campaign, but I think all these minor changes could be done in a Combined Arms module, that has been forgotten for a long time.

 

 

While I'm not entirely opposed to this idea, I would prefer ED spend their effort on other things before adding an FPS module. As a mission designer, I have lots of reservation that you can create good MP missions that combine infantry and aircraft (there may be a case for single-player missions that combine that). The main reason are the big differentials in speed. A (fit) foot soldier covers 1 km in 10 minutes (6 km/h). While a helicopter is 20-50 times that fast (300 km/h), planes - especially fighters - are 100 and more times faster. This pretty much breaks the players into two groups that don't mix well because one group has to wait for the other, and if only one thing goes wrong, both groups need to head home. It can be done, but it's not much fun (it's already incredibly difficult to write good, fun missions that involve helos and fixed wing because of this). 

 

Let's look at this CSAR scenario. I've written a few missions that generate a CSAR mission whenever a pilot is shot down. Another player hops into a helo and rescues the guy. If you, the downed player pilot, were forced to stay on the ground while your friends come to rescue you, you usually have an hour or more ahead where you simply wait, hoping that no enemy vehicle spots you. That's pretty much the extent of what you can do during that time. You'll then be picked up, and flown back to base - another 30 minutes of inactivity. It can be done (I've written such missions - blocked the downed player's slot until their unit was either dead or rescued), and my friends agree that they did not enjoy that experience at all. Now we play a variation on that theme, where a side has a limited number of pilots, and when you lose all pilots your side loses, but each downed pilot generates a CSAR mission to replenish your pilot pool. This will encourage your helo drivers to do some CSAR, but everyone can continue flying after being shot down. Walking great distances in DCS isn't fun (tbh, it's not even fun for me in "Death Stranding", and that title is all about walking great distances, so go figure), so any mission that includes infantry must go to great length (gosh, a pun!) to limit the size of the theater to a few kilometers - an area a fighter plane pushes through in the blink of an eye. 

 

Edited October 1, 2021 by cfrag

[StevanJ]

Id prefer Combined Arms worked, before we even looked at infantry..
But a nice thought if all the modules were fully developed.

[Silver_Dragon]

3 hours ago, Japo32 said:

I am sorry to hear people "don't waste time and money with this feature as it is not necesary". Of course it is not necesary to them, but it would add some interesting playability.

Of course I think we are not talking about making here an ARMA3 game, but I think there are some points that would be great to be improved:

 

1. When we bail out from our aircrafts, I would love to remove the joystick/pedals motion of the character, and introduce the WASD one with mouse as a FPS game. Also running possible. Why? because sometimes we have simulated SARs missions with my friends, and that motion controls would help a lot. I don't remember if Combined arms vehicle motion allows to be by WASD also.

 

2. Those bailed pilots be spoted as enemies by other infantry or armor (or helos) so can be killed. That way our "mission" to survive would be more fun.

 

3. Not necesary to allow those bailed pilots to use their rifles, but there are examples of non infantry simulators that do a decent job using rifles. Very simple characteristics. Nothing complex (remember that in the apache and the Kiowa there are M4 modelled): 

 

 

steel beasts is not the best example to manage the infantry with mouse and keyboard, but at least it have some kind of first person shoot with machineguns.

 

And of course I want ED to pay attention mostly in the important stuff they have to do, specially the dynamic campaign, but I think all these minor changes could be done in a Combined Arms module, that has been forgotten for a long time.

 

 

The WASD work only on CA infantry, on the Sa-18 and Stinger units, with can walk and run, but not more. That can be a "Hardcode" funtionality.

[mmarques]

I'd be happy if we had squads instead of individual men and could order those around.