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How can I read vertical velocity dial from pilot seat ? (1)


Swson
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Is the pilot seat adjustable in height because the vertical velocity indicator is full masqued by the gunsight reflector assembly

the dial is seen through navigator position but there is no possibility using elevator trim nor throttle from this position.


Edited by Swson
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This one is Geoffrey DeHavilland's bug, not ED's. 😉

(I assume it's this way as it was originally designed to be a level bomber and the gunsight was put in as an afterthought.)

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  • 1 month later...

Gentlemen, evidently I am not an avid experienced simulator pilot as you guys are; however, I have no idea how to see the Mosquito's Vertical Speed Indicator - (VSI), while I am trying to perform a landing. Too many things to adjust to on final approach and without no reference of rate of fall, it is impossible to me to make a safe landing. I would highly appreciate if a kind soul would describe the steps to control the "camera cockpit movement", to watch the VSI while landing. Thanks!

Frank J. Cintron, P.E. 

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On 11/12/2021 at 3:46 PM, canopancho said:

Gentlemen, evidently I am not an avid experienced simulator pilot as you guys are; however, I have no idea how to see the Mosquito's Vertical Speed Indicator - (VSI), while I am trying to perform a landing. Too many things to adjust to on final approach and without no reference of rate of fall, it is impossible to me to make a safe landing. I would highly appreciate if a kind soul would describe the steps to control the "camera cockpit movement", to watch the VSI while landing. Thanks!

Frank J. Cintron, P.E. 

Well, getting on TrackIR or VR is the best way. I haven't tried using keys to translate (move) my virtual head position in a long time so I forget what the default keybinds are, but they're there somewhere.

Can you see it from the gunsight head position maybe or does that make it even worse? If it helps you can select in the Special menu to use a keybind to move your head to that position.

You can always just watch the speed the altimeter needle is unwinding. Even with TrackIR I find that's how I'm doing it. Glideslope and airspeed are a lot more important while landing anyway. If you get those right the vertical velocity will work itself out.

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Thanks SMH for your prompt response, after reprograming the lock - unlock of the landing gear and the flaps adjustments, I was able to make several landings with the Mosquito without crashing, however it is still a guessing game when you do not know at what speed you are falling to hit the ground. The VSI should be as visible as the Speed Indicator, altimeter and artificial horizon, without having to play tricks. Trimming this airplane for straight flying is difficult, without mentioning the landings. Still, thanks for your highly appreciated advise.

Frank J. Cintron, P.E.

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The most useless instrument in a glider for landing ... Actually, IRL I usually look a last time inside the cockpit to check speed while turning to base... So, in most ww2 simming I just do the same and use mostly visual references.

Some ww2 axis fighters weren't even VSI equipped. The K-4 in DCS is, but in IL-2 most of the 109s and Fw have no VSI... Don't remember the bombers.

And... why did I post this ? Because I found the same difficulty in finding it hidding behind the gunsight / uv lamp, but I treat all of the ww2 modules like gliders on approach ad landing, just checking the speeds for proper flap / landing gear operations, the rest being all visual, and it works great in DCS ( and IL2 as well... ).


Edited by jcomm
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Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream...

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On 9/27/2021 at 9:23 PM, SMH said:

This one is Geoffrey DeHavilland's bug, not ED's. 😉

(I assume it's this way as it was originally designed to be a level bomber and the gunsight was put in as an afterthought.)

The whole Mosquito cockpit looks like it has been designed by a committee. Come on, is that a proper place for the rudder trimmer? Oh, we forgot the radiator intake switches… hmm there a free spot on top of the instrument panel infornt of the navigator - perfect! He won’t be looking forward very much anyway. The switch to turn in the gunsight? Lets put it on the navigator side, because navigators like to mess with the gun sight. Flaps and undercarriage levers? Hmm… lets put the on the ceiling.. no no, better idea lets put them between the pilot and navigator - this will give the cockpit some airliner vibes, the pilots will love it! Oh dear, we forget to place the ailerons trimmer - where will it go? Next to the pilot’s right ankle of course! Perfect location!

 🤦‍♂️

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“Mosquitoes fly, but flies don’t Mosquito” :pilotfly:

- Geoffrey de Havilland.

 

... well, he could have said it!

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You could also set a snap view. I customized 2 of them. One gives me a closer view of my interments ( including the VVI ) and the other is of my fuel gauges.

I stole this from another post and keep a copy in my DCS Notes folder

 

Custom Snap View(s)

By pressing one of these Snap View keybinds brings you to the default Snap View that is setup for that module: in my experience these are usually less then useful, so it is worth redoing them yourself for a more pleasant experience.

To alter a default Snap View first press the Snap View key that you wish to change: we are going to change the Snap View 6 (accessed by pressing Right Alt + Numpad 6) as an example. The game now remembers this as your last selected snap view, and pressing Save Cockpit Angles [default= Right Alt + Numpad 0] will bind your current view to this Snap View.

 

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[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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On 11/14/2021 at 12:04 PM, Lobo LXII said:

You could also set a snap view. I customized 2 of them. One gives me a closer view of my interments ( including the VVI ) and the other is of my fuel gauges.

I stole this from another post and keep a copy in my DCS Notes folder

 

Custom Snap View(s)

By pressing one of these Snap View keybinds brings you to the default Snap View that is setup for that module: in my experience these are usually less then useful, so it is worth redoing them yourself for a more pleasant experience.

To alter a default Snap View first press the Snap View key that you wish to change: we are going to change the Snap View 6 (accessed by pressing Right Alt + Numpad 6) as an example. The game now remembers this as your last selected snap view, and pressing Save Cockpit Angles [default= Right Alt + Numpad 0] will bind your current view to this Snap View.

 

Good idea!

 

 

On 11/14/2021 at 11:52 AM, Bozon said:

The whole Mosquito cockpit looks like it has been designed by a committee. Come on, is that a proper place for the rudder trimmer? Oh, we forgot the radiator intake switches… hmm there a free spot on top of the instrument panel infornt of the navigator - perfect! He won’t be looking forward very much anyway. The switch to turn in the gunsight? Lets put it on the navigator side, because navigators like to mess with the gun sight. Flaps and undercarriage levers? Hmm… lets put the on the ceiling.. no no, better idea lets put them between the pilot and navigator - this will give the cockpit some airliner vibes, the pilots will love it! Oh dear, we forget to place the ailerons trimmer - where will it go? Next to the pilot’s right ankle of course! Perfect location!

 🤦‍♂️

Yeah, but that's how it was in reality so I wouldn't want it any other way. The general lack of ergonomic concerns in the Brit plane cockpit designs has been a real eye opener! Had no idea before DCS.

By the way, where is the gunsight brightness rheostat hidden? I've got it mapped and it works, but I have yet to find the control for it.

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6 hours ago, SMH said:

By the way, where is the gunsight brightness rheostat hidden? I've got it mapped and it works, but I have yet to find the control for it.

Behind the gunsight - shown on P32 of Chuck's Guide.

gunsight_intensity_control.png

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6 hours ago, SMH said:

Yeah, but that's how it was in reality so I wouldn't want it any other way. The general lack of ergonomic concerns in the Brit plane cockpit designs has been a real eye opener! Had no idea before DCS.
 

If anything, DCS has made me appreciate the brilliant design of the FW-190. Its cockpit design was decades ahead of contemporary fighters. Looks so clean and modern, and this plus the automated engine control really frees the pilot to concentrate on the mission rather than operating and monitoring stuff in the cockpit.

Hey, but we like our mosquito just the way it was - I am sure that a true Brit in 1943 could have looked at the cockpit and say in a posh accent from under his mustache “I say, thank god for good old British engineering, this makes perfect sense to me!”.

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“Mosquitoes fly, but flies don’t Mosquito” :pilotfly:

- Geoffrey de Havilland.

 

... well, he could have said it!

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Here's a thought:
Do some of those instruments need to be on the aircraft centreline for functional reasons?
Some instruments are fed information electrically, hydraulically or pneumatically, so they can be wired/piped virtually anywhere, but some instruments rely on physics, and may need to be in a particular position to read correctly.

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15 minutes ago, No1sonuk said:

Here's a thought:
Do some of those instruments need to be on the aircraft centreline for functional reasons?
Some instruments are fed information electrically, hydraulically or pneumatically, so they can be wired/piped virtually anywhere, but some instruments rely on physics, and may need to be in a particular position to read correctly.

Can't think of any instrument, where this is the case. Certainly not for the VSI. Altimeter and Vertical Speed only depend on pressure/change of pressure. Artificial Horizon is a gyro (either driven by pressurized air from the engine or electrical, but it can be positioned anywhere....

I think there are two major reasons for the "mis"-placed VSI. 1) It's not so much of a problem in VR or the real aircraft, because it's easier and more natural to shift your head a little to read it. 2) they just did't care....

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Don't blame Geoffrey de Havilland, blame the Air Ministry/RAF....

By WW2 every British service aircraft had to have a standardised layout for the instruments that would be referenced during IFR conditions; this was known as the Blind Flying Panel.

This meant that every aircraft designer was obliged to set these in the primary position on the instrument panel and squeeze every other instrument around them; this partially accounts for the somewhat seemingly haphazard arrangement of some British aircraft instrument panels.

The other problem with the Mossie is defined by the minimal cross section of the aircrafts fuselage and particularly the profile of the nose; the pilot is sat at the point at where the nose starts to narrow, so much so that his legs are not aligned straight with his seat; the rudder pedals are slightly offset to the right to fit in the aircraft.

Such were the compromises deemed acceptable in order to ensure that the mosquito would have the necessary legs to outrun enemy fighter aircraft when it was designed.


Edited by DD_Fenrir
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On 11/14/2021 at 4:52 PM, Bozon said:

The whole Mosquito cockpit looks like it has been designed by a committee. Come on, is that a proper place for the rudder trimmer? Oh, we forgot the radiator intake switches… hmm there a free spot on top of the instrument panel infornt of the navigator - perfect! He won’t be looking forward very much anyway. The switch to turn in the gunsight? Lets put it on the navigator side, because navigators like to mess with the gun sight. Flaps and undercarriage levers? Hmm… lets put the on the ceiling.. no no, better idea lets put them between the pilot and navigator - this will give the cockpit some airliner vibes, the pilots will love it! Oh dear, we forget to place the ailerons trimmer - where will it go? Next to the pilot’s right ankle of course! Perfect location!

 🤦‍♂️

Haha, well said. Those trim wheels make no sense whatsoever. Thanks to God that we don`t have to deal with them in real life and can key bind them and operate from the comfort of our keyboards. VSI is another funny one.

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19 hours ago, DD_Fenrir said:

Don't blame Geoffrey de Havilland, blame the Air Ministry/RAF....

By WW2 every British service aircraft had to have a standardised layout for the instruments that would be referenced during IFR conditions; this was known as the Blind Flying Panel.

This meant that every aircraft designer was obliged to set these in the primary position on the instrument panel and squeeze every other instrument around them; this partially accounts for the somewhat seemingly haphazard arrangement of some British aircraft instrument panels.

The other problem with the Mossie is defined by the minimal cross section of the aircrafts fuselage and particularly the profile of the nose; the pilot is sat at the point at where the nose starts to narrow, so much so that his legs are not aligned straight with his seat; the rudder pedals are slightly offset to the right to fit in the aircraft.

Such were the compromises deemed acceptable in order to ensure that the mosquito would have the necessary legs to outrun enemy fighter aircraft when it was designed.

 

Wow. Did not know that. I don`t want to be rude, but offsetting rudder pedals from pilot was a step too far. Small bits misplaced here and there are ok, lets say. Should I ment to be a long distance pilot and they would ask me to stay  slightly twisted to one side for hours...I would say ,,NO,, lol. This makes me appreciate aergonomics of  21st century cars.

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3 minutes ago, Rainbowgirl said:

Wow. Did not know that. I don`t want to be rude, but offsetting rudder pedals from pilot was a step too far. Small bits misplaced here and there are ok, lets say. Should I ment to be a long distance pilot and they would ask me to stay  slightly twisted to one side for hours...I would say ,,NO,, lol. This makes me appreciate aergonomics of  21st century cars.

You have trim for that, so you can take your feet of the pedals and only be angled for some minutes and not hours. 

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21 hours ago, razo+r said:

You have trim for that, so you can take your feet of the pedals and only be angled for some minutes and not hours. 

Oh, that is actually true. Sometimes I get carried away before thinking twice, haha.


Edited by Rainbowgirl
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Nice  discussion, but I would still like to see the VSI. Hopefully some good soul will create a gauge in Helios. I could also do with a bomb panel without the reflections on its cover. I cannot see anything on that panel.

LeCuvier

Windows 10 Pro 64Bit | i7-4790 CPU |16 GB RAM|SSD System Disk|SSD Gaming Disk| MSI GTX-1080 Gaming 8 GB| Acer XB270HU | TM Warthog HOTAS | VKB Gladiator Pro | MongoosT-50 | MFG Crosswind Pedals | TrackIR 5

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3 hours ago, LeCuvier said:

Nice  discussion, but I would still like to see the VSI. Hopefully some good soul will create a gauge in Helios. I could also do with a bomb panel without the reflections on its cover. I cannot see anything on that panel.

Here's one I made earlier...  😜
NTy4IKn.jpg

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The problem is that the default viewpoint is way off the correct position.  As mentioned by other posters the default position needs adjusting because it is way too high and way too far back. Get yourself into the correct position and you can see at least the left half of the vsi which is the needly bit and all that you need.

This is what I see on the approach, and I can easily see my sink rate although it is only the left half of the dial

Screen_211120_141413.png

You need to move your viewpoint down quite a lot as well as considerably more forward.  Adjust it down while on the ground and the windscreen wiper is the perfect indicator for thre correct 3 point attitude

Screen_211120_140659.png

Here is my quick and dirty Voice Attack profile to incrementally adjust the viewpoint so I don't have to use the keyboard while in VR.

Adjust seating position-Profile.vap

Although the command are " move seat ..." the seat does not move ,it is only your viewpoint. but you get the idea.

 

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