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VR and i5 9600k? Or upgrade to i7-9700k or i9-9900k? Does it matter? Futureproofing?


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Hi everyone,

 

I'm sure it's been asked a hundred times before, but I really need some informed opinions. Preferably from people who have done the upgrade, and mostly with regards to VR and DCS world. 

 

Currently the weakest part of my system is my CPU, which is actually pretty decent. It's an i5-9600k OC @ 4.8 Ghz. I play DCS World in VR using a G2, with a 32GB Ram, and an 3090RTX. But, like everyone else I want to squeeze every little bit of extra "oomph" possible. 

 

My question is this. I am currently able to buy both the i7 and the i9 for a pretty reasonable price (which is unusual) since they are not the latest and the greatest. 

 

Would it really be worth it to upgrade? Just the CPU of the same generation. I'm not currently interested in going for a CPU+MOBO motherboard. Will it make a difference in VR? Overclocking my i5 has made quite a bit of noticeable difference just from stock, how much difference would it make if I put in an i7 or i9 of the same generation? Would it make sense for futureproofing my system when and if DCS world ever goes multithreaded? I really need input here from people who have been in a similar situation and who have tested this. Thank you. 


Edited by Lurker

Specs: Win10, i9-9900KF@5Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM 3200XMP, 1 TB M2 NVMe SSD, KFA2 RTX3090, VR G2 Headset, Warthog Throttle+Saitek Pedals+MSFFB2  Joystick. 

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  • Lurker changed the title to VR and i5 9600k? Or upgrade to i7-9700k or i9-9900k? Does it matter? Futureproofing?

in DCS single core performance is paramount.

 

with that in mind depending on you cooling solution you should (silicon lottery prevailing in your favour) be able to get an increased base single core performance over your existing i5 ... how much .. well again a lot depends on your cooling solution but you should be able to get over 5Ghz...  I get 5.1 on my i7-9700k thats a 6% reduction in CPU frame time... broadly ... so that equates to just over a 0.5ms in CPU frame time... 

 

is that worth it... only you can judge.

 

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SYSTEM SPECS: Hardware Intel Corei7-12700KF @ 5.1/5.3p & 3.8e GHz, 64Gb RAM, EVGA 3090 XC3, Dell S2716DG, Virpil T50CM3 Throttle, T-50CM2 Base & Constellation Alpha + MFG Crosswinds V2, HP Reverb G2
SOFTWARE: Microsoft Windows 11, VoiceAttack & VIACOM PRO

VR Stuff:   My Settings for 3090 and G2  My Settings for 1080ti  Shaders MOD for VR  My variant of Kegetys mod with clear water and also IC PASS for current beta & stable, Patch Status

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As far as upgrades go, it wouldn't make sense to do an upgrade to the next best processor like the ones you have listed.  You would be investing time and money in something that, IMHO, isn't going to give you a big enough performance boost to justify that investment.  You certainly wouldn't be futureproofing your machine by doing that.

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ASRock Z370 Professional Gaming i7, Intel i7 8700K Coffee Lake processor @4.7GHz, Corsair H105 Liquid Cooler, G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 64GB DDR4 3400 memory, EVGA RTX3090 FTW3 Ultra 24GB video card, Samsung 840PRO 256MB SSD for Windows 10 64-bit OS, Samsung 850PRO 2TB SSD for program files, LG WH14NS40 Blu-Ray burner. HOTAS Warthog, Saitek Pedals, HP Reverb G2. Partridge and pear tree pending. pilotfly.gif

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Thanks for the replies guys. 

 

@eaglecash867 Currently a new motherboard and newer generation CPU are out of the question. Otherwise I would probably be going for a Ryzen 5 upgrade. The i9 on the other hand has a significantly larger and faster cache and can be pushed higher in overclock. Not to mention more cores and threads and better multicore performance, if that ever becomes a thing in DCS it might be worth it. 

 

@speed-of-heat That's the thing. I can get my i5 stable to 4.8 Ghz. At 4.9 Ghz it has problems with remaining stable no matter which voltage i try. I guess my luck with the silicon lottery has kind of failed me here. The i9 has a normal turbo boost function to 5 Ghz, which means I should be able to push it at least to 5 Ghz OC, and hopfully even 5.1 Ghz if I'm lucky. A 6% increase is nothing to scoff at when every little bit counts as it does in VR. Not to mention the things you can't measure. 

 

I guess that's what I'm asking is a 6% frame-time reduction worth it? Will it eventually translate to more with an upgrade in the DCS Core Engine is anyone's guess, but I'm hopeful in that regard. 


Edited by Lurker

Specs: Win10, i9-9900KF@5Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM 3200XMP, 1 TB M2 NVMe SSD, KFA2 RTX3090, VR G2 Headset, Warthog Throttle+Saitek Pedals+MSFFB2  Joystick. 

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What’s your current average cpu frame time?

SYSTEM SPECS: Hardware Intel Corei7-12700KF @ 5.1/5.3p & 3.8e GHz, 64Gb RAM, EVGA 3090 XC3, Dell S2716DG, Virpil T50CM3 Throttle, T-50CM2 Base & Constellation Alpha + MFG Crosswinds V2, HP Reverb G2
SOFTWARE: Microsoft Windows 11, VoiceAttack & VIACOM PRO

VR Stuff:   My Settings for 3090 and G2  My Settings for 1080ti  Shaders MOD for VR  My variant of Kegetys mod with clear water and also IC PASS for current beta & stable, Patch Status

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1 hour ago, speed-of-heat said:

What’s your current average cpu frame time?

 

I would have to check. What software do you use to do so? Can I use SteamVR to output that somehow or is something else required? I've only seen SteamVR give me GPU frame times. 

Specs: Win10, i9-9900KF@5Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM 3200XMP, 1 TB M2 NVMe SSD, KFA2 RTX3090, VR G2 Headset, Warthog Throttle+Saitek Pedals+MSFFB2  Joystick. 

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I use fpsvr to give me the CPU frametime.

 

You need to look at two numbers 11ms and 22ms ... does it get you closer to 11ms or below or does it keep you below 22

 

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SYSTEM SPECS: Hardware Intel Corei7-12700KF @ 5.1/5.3p & 3.8e GHz, 64Gb RAM, EVGA 3090 XC3, Dell S2716DG, Virpil T50CM3 Throttle, T-50CM2 Base & Constellation Alpha + MFG Crosswinds V2, HP Reverb G2
SOFTWARE: Microsoft Windows 11, VoiceAttack & VIACOM PRO

VR Stuff:   My Settings for 3090 and G2  My Settings for 1080ti  Shaders MOD for VR  My variant of Kegetys mod with clear water and also IC PASS for current beta & stable, Patch Status

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12 hours ago, Lurker said:

 

 

@eaglecash867 Currently a new motherboard and newer generation CPU are out of the question. Otherwise I would probably be going for a Ryzen 5 upgrade. The i9 on the other hand has a significantly larger and faster cache and can be pushed higher in overclock. Not to mention more cores and threads and better multicore performance, if that ever becomes a thing in DCS it might be worth it. 

 

 

I hear ya, you might not have the funds for a full upgrade right now, but there's nothing saying you can't save up for it to happen in the near future and build something that'll get you down the road a lot further than where you are now.  Going the next model up when its already lagging behind what's currently available is just wasted money and you'll always be wondering "What if I had waited?  Would I be happier with the result?"  My 8700K does just fine for me in DCS right now, but I am looking at upgrading soon...waiting for those 12th Generation i9s to be released in a few weeks.  They apparently destroy everything out there by a pretty substantial margin.  😎


Edited by eaglecash867

ASRock Z370 Professional Gaming i7, Intel i7 8700K Coffee Lake processor @4.7GHz, Corsair H105 Liquid Cooler, G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 64GB DDR4 3400 memory, EVGA RTX3090 FTW3 Ultra 24GB video card, Samsung 840PRO 256MB SSD for Windows 10 64-bit OS, Samsung 850PRO 2TB SSD for program files, LG WH14NS40 Blu-Ray burner. HOTAS Warthog, Saitek Pedals, HP Reverb G2. Partridge and pear tree pending. pilotfly.gif

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16 hours ago, speed-of-heat said:

I use fpsvr to give me the CPU frametime.

 

You need to look at two numbers 11ms and 22ms ... does it get you closer to 11ms or below or does it keep you below 22

 

 

Ok, only managed to playtest for about half an hour after work yesterday. Didn't use FPSVR but used SteamVRs development mode CPU/GPU frametime graph. It's very lame as it doesn't output an average for some reason but at least it gave me some kind of baseline. For the most part my CPU frametimes were around the 10-11ms mark, with infrequent but not exactly rare jumps to 14-15 and even 16ms. These were basically single frame spikes here and there. 

 

@eaglecash867 it all depends though. I think with my current setup I'm pretty much set for the next 2-3 years with regards to any upgrades at all. If I decide to go with the i9-9900k, I bring all of my separate components to pretty much the same level, and I think my RIG will probably last me for the next 5 years with just regular maintenance, cleaning etc. Not only in DCS mind you, but with regards to upcoming other games, software etc. Unless I'm completely wrong about the market, and the last 10 years of gaming has been an anomaly I don't think this will change. However DCS is the main focus here. 


Edited by Lurker

Specs: Win10, i9-9900KF@5Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM 3200XMP, 1 TB M2 NVMe SSD, KFA2 RTX3090, VR G2 Headset, Warthog Throttle+Saitek Pedals+MSFFB2  Joystick. 

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if your CPU FT is already consistently below 11ms , then it wont buy you terribly much , except headroom for more intensive AI missions...

maybe more headroom for multiplayer too

SYSTEM SPECS: Hardware Intel Corei7-12700KF @ 5.1/5.3p & 3.8e GHz, 64Gb RAM, EVGA 3090 XC3, Dell S2716DG, Virpil T50CM3 Throttle, T-50CM2 Base & Constellation Alpha + MFG Crosswinds V2, HP Reverb G2
SOFTWARE: Microsoft Windows 11, VoiceAttack & VIACOM PRO

VR Stuff:   My Settings for 3090 and G2  My Settings for 1080ti  Shaders MOD for VR  My variant of Kegetys mod with clear water and also IC PASS for current beta & stable, Patch Status

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4 minutes ago, speed-of-heat said:

if your CPU FT is already consistently below 11ms , then it wont buy you terribly much , except headroom for more intensive AI missions...

maybe more headroom for multiplayer too

 

Thanks for the reply. That's what I thought. I am skirting the edge though. The headroom part is interesting and worth thinking about. 

Specs: Win10, i9-9900KF@5Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM 3200XMP, 1 TB M2 NVMe SSD, KFA2 RTX3090, VR G2 Headset, Warthog Throttle+Saitek Pedals+MSFFB2  Joystick. 

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yes and then its a pure value/judgement call... I'm in a similar position and my own view is with my i7-9700k, that i will have look next year when some solid alder lake numbers are in ... but thats likely to be a full MB, CPU and RAM replacement ... maybe PSU as well 

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SYSTEM SPECS: Hardware Intel Corei7-12700KF @ 5.1/5.3p & 3.8e GHz, 64Gb RAM, EVGA 3090 XC3, Dell S2716DG, Virpil T50CM3 Throttle, T-50CM2 Base & Constellation Alpha + MFG Crosswinds V2, HP Reverb G2
SOFTWARE: Microsoft Windows 11, VoiceAttack & VIACOM PRO

VR Stuff:   My Settings for 3090 and G2  My Settings for 1080ti  Shaders MOD for VR  My variant of Kegetys mod with clear water and also IC PASS for current beta & stable, Patch Status

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Yeah I think I am going to go for it. Thanks for all the advice. They are half the price of current i9-11900Ks where I live. If nothing else I will have an experience that I can share with others regarding that type of upgrade, whether it was worth it etc. Hopefully the core changes to DCS also come along and give our hardware some much needed relief. 

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Specs: Win10, i9-9900KF@5Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM 3200XMP, 1 TB M2 NVMe SSD, KFA2 RTX3090, VR G2 Headset, Warthog Throttle+Saitek Pedals+MSFFB2  Joystick. 

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from your lips to Devs fingers

 

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SYSTEM SPECS: Hardware Intel Corei7-12700KF @ 5.1/5.3p & 3.8e GHz, 64Gb RAM, EVGA 3090 XC3, Dell S2716DG, Virpil T50CM3 Throttle, T-50CM2 Base & Constellation Alpha + MFG Crosswinds V2, HP Reverb G2
SOFTWARE: Microsoft Windows 11, VoiceAttack & VIACOM PRO

VR Stuff:   My Settings for 3090 and G2  My Settings for 1080ti  Shaders MOD for VR  My variant of Kegetys mod with clear water and also IC PASS for current beta & stable, Patch Status

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Placed the order for the CPU, will report back when it arrives and I install it, hopefully within a week or so..


Edited by Lurker
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Specs: Win10, i9-9900KF@5Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM 3200XMP, 1 TB M2 NVMe SSD, KFA2 RTX3090, VR G2 Headset, Warthog Throttle+Saitek Pedals+MSFFB2  Joystick. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well I got my CPU an installed it yesterday. However I did not try it yet in DCS World. (Been having too much fun revisiting D2R) I tried a basic overclock, but the temps are spiking to 80degress in a simple stress test, which I do not like at all....

 

I might have to reseat the AIO PUMP or something, because if this is the case then there is no way it can go to 5 Ghz. 

Specs: Win10, i9-9900KF@5Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM 3200XMP, 1 TB M2 NVMe SSD, KFA2 RTX3090, VR G2 Headset, Warthog Throttle+Saitek Pedals+MSFFB2  Joystick. 

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13 hours ago, Lurker said:

Well I got my CPU an installed it yesterday. However I did not try it yet in DCS World. (Been having too much fun revisiting D2R) I tried a basic overclock, but the temps are spiking to 80degress in a simple stress test, which I do not like at all....

 

I might have to reseat the AIO PUMP or something, because if this is the case then there is no way it can go to 5 Ghz. 

You probably already know this, but make sure you clean the lid of the processor with isopropyl alcohol before applying the thermal paste.  Sometimes, in spite of being really careful, you can accidentally touch the lid and get a fingerprint or even a fingerprint fragment on it, and that will destroy the thermal paste's ability to transfer heat properly.

ASRock Z370 Professional Gaming i7, Intel i7 8700K Coffee Lake processor @4.7GHz, Corsair H105 Liquid Cooler, G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 64GB DDR4 3400 memory, EVGA RTX3090 FTW3 Ultra 24GB video card, Samsung 840PRO 256MB SSD for Windows 10 64-bit OS, Samsung 850PRO 2TB SSD for program files, LG WH14NS40 Blu-Ray burner. HOTAS Warthog, Saitek Pedals, HP Reverb G2. Partridge and pear tree pending. pilotfly.gif

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10 hours ago, eaglecash867 said:

You probably already know this, but make sure you clean the lid of the processor with isopropyl alcohol before applying the thermal paste.  Sometimes, in spite of being really careful, you can accidentally touch the lid and get a fingerprint or even a fingerprint fragment on it, and that will destroy the thermal paste's ability to transfer heat properly.

 

Yep it's probably something like this. Thanks for the tip. 

Specs: Win10, i9-9900KF@5Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM 3200XMP, 1 TB M2 NVMe SSD, KFA2 RTX3090, VR G2 Headset, Warthog Throttle+Saitek Pedals+MSFFB2  Joystick. 

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Lurker, what CPU did you go with in the end and have you seen any performance improvements from the 9600?

System: 9700, 64GB DDR4, 2070S, NVME2, Rift S, Jetseat, Thrustmaster F18 grip, VPC T50 stick base and throttle, CH Throttle, MFG crosswinds, custom button box, Logitech G502 and Marble mouse.

Server: i5 2500@3.9Ghz, 1080, 24GB DDR3, SSD.

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1 hour ago, Lurker said:

 

Yep it's probably something like this. Thanks for the tip. 

also and this will sound ... silly some cooling units ship with clear plastic to prevent damage to the interface surface make sure that is taken off as well 

SYSTEM SPECS: Hardware Intel Corei7-12700KF @ 5.1/5.3p & 3.8e GHz, 64Gb RAM, EVGA 3090 XC3, Dell S2716DG, Virpil T50CM3 Throttle, T-50CM2 Base & Constellation Alpha + MFG Crosswinds V2, HP Reverb G2
SOFTWARE: Microsoft Windows 11, VoiceAttack & VIACOM PRO

VR Stuff:   My Settings for 3090 and G2  My Settings for 1080ti  Shaders MOD for VR  My variant of Kegetys mod with clear water and also IC PASS for current beta & stable, Patch Status

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, speed-of-heat said:

also and this will sound ... silly some cooling units ship with clear plastic to prevent damage to the interface surface make sure that is taken off as well 

 

Yeah, no worries there. Mine did ship with the plastic, and I did take it off 🙂 Still, better said than sorry 🙂 I will do a complete clean up of the case, and carefully clean and re-seat the AIO pump back on the CPU later today. Making sure I don't overdo it with the paste or anything. 

 

1 hour ago, Mr_sukebe said:

Lurker, what CPU did you go with in the end and have you seen any performance improvements from the 9600?

 

i9-9900KF variant. (It's basically the same thing as the K, but without the integrated graphics chip). So far I have seen absolutely no improvements, however. I have not tested at all. Just had time for a quick take off and landing, and like I said I did not do any kind of overclock on the i9, while the i5 had a solid 4.8Ghz overclock. 

 

I do feel a slight improvement in whole system responsiveness, but it's probably just placebo effect. No idea how it will perform when overclocked as I noticed some strange temp spikes when testing even a simple overclock to 4.6 Ghz. When left on auto, the CPU doesnt spike over 70-75 degrees even when under load. 


Edited by Lurker

Specs: Win10, i9-9900KF@5Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM 3200XMP, 1 TB M2 NVMe SSD, KFA2 RTX3090, VR G2 Headset, Warthog Throttle+Saitek Pedals+MSFFB2  Joystick. 

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9900k chips can certainly run warm. If you have not disable hyperthreading, that will help a little and is not really useful for gaming.

Don B

 

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1 minute ago, dburne said:

9900k chips can certainly run warm. If you have not disable hyperthreading, that will help a little and is not really useful for gaming.

 

Yeah, I think I'm just gonna go with a simple reseat of the AIO pump first and the take it from there. I will only disable certain chip features as a last resort. 

 

I think the main reason why I'm seeing temp spikes when OCing is because I didn't really bother to clean the backplate of the pump properly with anything other than a dry paper towel, and probably mishandled the plate and the CPU top with fingers. Gonna take proper care with it now, and hopefully it will be all good. I will report back. 

Specs: Win10, i9-9900KF@5Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM 3200XMP, 1 TB M2 NVMe SSD, KFA2 RTX3090, VR G2 Headset, Warthog Throttle+Saitek Pedals+MSFFB2  Joystick. 

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Just FYI, 80c in a stress test of a i9 9900k is completely fine and normal, don't worry about temps as long as you stay at or under around 90. That chip will run hot, but with a decent cooler, AIO, you'll have no issues with hitting 5ghz all core with hyperthreading on. I haven't seen many that can't. Auto vcore is probably outputting more voltage than is actually needed, manually tuning will help you bring down the temps a few degrees too. 9900k really just needs 1.2v at the chip to be stable, which at full load with minimal LLC usually means 1.3-1.33v is usually fine. On a good chip you can get even lower.

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Going to any processor that has a higher IPC will net you better performance. Just as an example, going from a ryzen 3600 to a 5900x brought my cpu frame time down from 11ms to 8ms in dcs. You will always be chasing frame times within dcs due to the aging architecture of the game. However ill advise that you do your best to ensure your always GPU limited, aka gpu frame times higher than cpu frame times, due to a cpu not having any tricks up its sleeve to interpolate missing frames.

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