Luckyslayer92 Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 I was flying in black shark when i saw something weird. When ever i flaired to slow down and stop my helicopter would fall out of the sky. What i want to know is why does it drop out of the sky when im level and at full colective? Does this happen to real helicopters and if so what is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Read the Fine Manual. ;) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyslayer92 Posted November 12, 2008 Author Share Posted November 12, 2008 (edited) aww lol i was hoping to get a quick explanation but ok... Where can i download an english manual? Edited November 12, 2008 by Luckyslayer92 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ 9mm Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 that's called a vortex ring state. when the helicopter decends into it's own downwash, the blades produce drastically less lift, and the heli falls out of the sky. avoid decending straight down, or settling into the rotors' downwash, which can happen while flaring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diveplane Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 welcome to the world of simulation :>) https://www.youtube.com/user/diveplane11 DCS Audio Modding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Try to not descend so fast. I think max maybe 8 or so m/s? If you do get into the vortex ring you must learn how to get out of it. Usually I try and drop the nose to get some forward momentum and add collective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 I would make sure your not also playing with the collective and not the throttle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurtz Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 The vertical speed indicator is your best friend when flying heli sims Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 as mentioned before you encountered Vortex ring state, also called settling with power. and as stated is a condition where the main rotor down wash is recycled causing the relative flow to exceed the angle of attack, increases until the inboard and outboard portions of the blade stall. once in settling with power as you start to descend and you increase collective you only make the problem worse by increasing the the flow rate further robbing you of lift. It's really best to just avoid the region where it occurs. As a rule when I fly I try avoid greater than 250 feet per minute below 40 knots. This gives me a good margin of safety because I don't want to die or ball up a half million dollar machine. The really deadly region is around 700 feet per minute and less than 10 knots. at that combination the helicopter will be very difficult to control and may require entering an auto to get out of... not an option if you're close to the ground. if you're slightly settling with power apply forward cyclic to increase speed and allow it to build before adding power. it can also be avoided by maintaining a descent angle of less than 30 degrees. There are five main flight conditions likely to lead to settling with power. 1. A powered descent at low air speed with a High descent rate. 2. loss of height during a harsh flare. 3. executing a quick stop downwind. 4. a squashing recovery, when power is applied at the end of an auto 5. a downwind approach so in summary just don't go there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Its too bad the sim doesnt allow you to judge which direction the wind is moving. You have to be careful with rotor blade stalling...and its modelled quite nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Groove Posted November 12, 2008 ED Team Share Posted November 12, 2008 you shouldn't exceed a descent rate of more than 3 m/s in a landing approach. Our Forum Rules: http://forums.eagle.ru/rules.php#en Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swepain Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 yea.. its really imortant to play with the right stick... pull the wrong one and there could be sideeffects u didnt predict! It takes a fool to remain sane :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalintc Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 yea.. its really imortant to play with the right stick... pull the wrong one and there could be sideeffects u didnt predict! Same goes for the buttons and switches... its bad to go clicky clicky in mid flight on buttons your not sure on :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaOneSix Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Settling with power can occur when you have all three of the following: At or near zero airspeed 300 feet per minute rate of descent or greater (roughly 1.6 meters per second) Greater than 20% power The third one is sometimes confusing, but it basically means that if you're hovering and you bottom the collective and drop like a rock, that is not settling with power...until you start to pull in the collective and start stalling the blades, then it becomes settling with power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IvanK Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Votex Ring = Helicopters Suck :) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vati Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 In BS manual (p.275) says nicely that to prevent the vortex ring regime, you should not exceed more than -5 m/s descent at horizontal speeds below 50 km/h. http://www.condorsoaring.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intruder_360 Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Its too bad the sim doesnt allow you to judge which direction the wind is moving. You are sure? I have translated the gui-manual with prompt(not 100% i know), but it shows like there is an option to change wind direction and windspeed like in lomac. Weather For adjustment{option} of desirable weather effects the panel WEATHER serves. In her you can adjust{set up} at will a season, temperature, pressure, overcast, deposits, a wind on heights, turbulence. Пресеты weathers Adjustment{Option} of a fog Adjustment{Option} of turbulence Adjustment{Option} of a wind Adjustment{Option} of overcast, deposits and atmospheric pressure Adjustment{Option} of a season and temperaturesDCS Ка-50 the BLACK SHARK59 Adjustment{Option} of a season and temperatures.In this block there is a dropping out list of four seasons of year and a field of input of temperature.Adjustment{option} of overcast, deposits and atmospheric pressure. In this block there are some elements of adjustment{option}: HEIGHT. A toddler and a field of input of height of the bottom edge{territory} of overcast. THICKNESS. A toddler and a field of input of thickness of a layer of clouds. DENSITY. A field of input of density of clouds in points from 0 up to 10. At density of 0 clouds is not present. At density from 1 up to 8 cumulus clouds are used. At density 9 and 10 the continuous layer of overcast is used. DEPOSITS. The dropping out list of deposits. The list of accessible deposits depends on density of overcast and temperature of air. The rain is accessible at density of overcast above 4, a thunder-storm - above 8, at temperature of air above 0. The snow is accessible at density of overcast above 4, a snow storm - above 8, at temperature of air below 0. Pressure. A field of input of pressure on a sea level in mm of a mercury column. Adjustment{Option} of a wind. In this block it is possible to adjust{set up} speed and a direction of a wind on three layers 0 - 2000 - 8000 meters. Speed and a direction of a wind between the specified layers vary in regular intervals from one value to another. From height of 8000 meters the vector of a wind is constant. Speed of a wind is set in meters a second from 0 up to 50 km/s. The direction of a wind is set in degrees aside where the wind blows. That is, at an azimuth by default 0 degrees the wind blows from the south on the north.Adjustment{option} of turbulence. In this floor{field} you can set a level of turbulence in the tenth shares of meter in a second. Turbulence is maximal at the ground and falls with height.Adjustment{option} of a fog. The fog is adjusted{set up} by two elements: a toddler of thickness of a layer from a sea level up to 1000 meters and a field of conditional density from 0 up to 10. The more densely the fog, the is less visibility range in him. Пресеты weathers. In game it is created a little ready пресетов various weather subjects. Also you can edit existing пресеты at the desire. For use пресета it is necessary to choose demanded of the dropping out list and to press the button. To save changes in пресете it is necessary to press the button. To remove пресет it is necessary to press the button. To apply weather adjustments{options} to mission it is necessary to press button OK. To leave the panel of weather without preservation of adjustments{options}-press the button the CANCELLING. Regards Intruder Monitor: ASUS TUF Gaming VG27AQL1A| Case: Thermaltake Overseer RX-I | PSU: EVGA SuperNOVA 1300 G2 80+ GOLD, 1300W| Mobo: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Master | CPU: Intel Core i9 9900KS @5 GHz | CPU-Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 Tower Cooler | RAM: 32GB G.Skill F4-4133C17-8GTZR | GPU:NVIDIA GeForce RTX4090 OC 24GB |SSD: Samsung SSD 860 M.2 1TB | Keyboard: Logitech G110 | Mouse: Logitech G502 | Gaming Devices: Hotas WW Orion 2 Stick&Throttle, Thrustmaster MFD, Pimax Crystal, Stream Deck XL [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrin Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 I think what hitman means is the like the super technical piece of string you can find on the windscreen of a Robinson that shows you which direction the wind is coming from. I found myself dumped on the ground from vortex ring after a quickstop downind... Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weta43 Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Try looking at the vanes on the front of the aircraft - they do pretty much the same thing... Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r-unit Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 I was flying in black shark when i saw something weird. When ever i flaired to slow down and stop my helicopter would fall out of the sky. What i want to know is why does it drop out of the sky when im level and at full colective? Does this happen to real helicopters and if so what is it? The vortex ring is created by downwash, that does not cusion the helicopter on air, but reverses itself and sucks the helicopter downward... Poor fellows here this happend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedTiger Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 aww lol i was hoping to get a quick explanation but ok... Quick explanation: helicopters are death traps. Do not fly one. :D Votex Ring = Helicopters Suck :) You beat me to it. :mad: :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryuzu Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 Quick explanation: helicopters are death traps. Do not fly one. :D You beat me to it. :mad: :lol: Or to put it better, People fly aeroplanes, Pilots fly helicopters :thumbup: r. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weta43 Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 Oops, wrong thread... Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 (edited) Quick explanation: helicopters are death traps. Do not fly one. :D Heh... I always joke with my girlfriend about how many interesting ways there are to die in a helicopter. Just to make her nervous when I fly. I torture the shit out of the poor girl. But SRSLY Helos rock. try landing on a mountain top in a fixed wing. sure we can't break mach, but you can't hover. Edited November 13, 2008 by Draco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IvanK Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 (edited) Try Ground Resonance ................ cant get that in a fixed wing :) Edited November 13, 2008 by IvanK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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