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Radio Direction Finding


Charly_Owl

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Am 25.9.2021 um 20:19 schrieb Tarres:

For now, only works for the ils beacons. 
Maybe In the long term we’ve some kind of “transmitter” to set in the WW2 maps.

 

There is a “broadcasting station” filter in the ME, so maybe in the future.

 

Just put a unit like a truck (OpelBlitz?) or some antenna or even a single soldier adjacent to any building in the mission editor. Then create an advance task top "set frequency" (it's MHz so 240 kHz is 0.24) and below add a "Transmission" task with any way or ogg file you want to transmit. Check the loop option, power to 100W.

That's it you created a "beacon" transmitting from that unit.


Edited by shagrat
Corrected MHz/kHz calculation.
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Shagrat

 

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9 hours ago, shagrat said:

Just put a unit like a truck (OpelBlitz?) or some antenna or even a single soldier adjacent to any building in the mission editor. Then create an advance task top "set frequency" (it's MHz so 2.4 kHz is 0.24) and below add a "Transmission" task with any way or ogg file you want to transmit. Check the loop option, power to 100W.

That's it you created a "beacon" transmitting from that unit.

Thanks shagrat.  I know how to do that and had already set up a radio broadcasting "Grossdeutscher Rundfunk".
Just was not sure whether or not the same was required for airfields at the moment for direction finding.


Edited by Mud
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41 minutes ago, shagrat said:

Just put a unit like a truck (OpelBlitz?) or some antenna or even a single soldier adjacent to any building in the mission editor. Then create an advance task top "set frequency" (it's MHz so 2.4 kHz is 0.24) and below add a "Transmission" task with any way or ogg file you want to transmit. Check the loop option, power to 100W.

That's it you created a "beacon" transmitting from that unit.

Sorry I was thinking that the question was about the Approach beacon.

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5 hours ago, Magnum said:

I should have been more specific. This appears to not work on a dedicated server similar to this issue https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/273197-picture-to-group-not-working-in-mp/?tab=comments#comment-4682581. It does however appear to work for a SP mission or a MP mission hosted by the open beta client.

Just to quote myself, It seemss I can get this to work via the dedicated server through the use of triggers. Still need to do some testing.

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17 hours ago, Magnum said:

Just to quote myself, It seemss I can get this to work via the dedicated server through the use of triggers. Still need to do some testing.

Think I got it worked out. If anyone would like to confirm my workaround your more than welcome to download this proof of concept mission https://www.dropbox.com/s/j3i9x4zdix3v2zr/Mosquito%20Radio%20example.miz?dl=0

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Am 25.9.2021 um 22:48 schrieb No1sonuk:

1000 Hz = 1 kHz
1000 kHz = 1 MHz,

So:
2.4 kHz is 0.0024 MHz.
0.24 MHz is 240 kHz.

You're right of course. 😄

Shagrat

 

- Flying Sims since 1984 -:pilotfly:

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Am 25.9.2021 um 21:27 schrieb Tarres:

Sorry I was thinking that the question was about the Approach beacon.

If "Approach Beacon" means ILS than you need ILS at the airfield, so a modern airfield/map is required.

If you mean a beacon as in location beacon for an airfield, you can add it at the runway threshold as explained and set your approach to known runway heading and keep the beacon centered... Not a perfect VFR ILS approach, but should get you close to the runway and on approach course.

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Shagrat

 

- Flying Sims since 1984 -:pilotfly:

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Am 25.9.2021 um 21:16 schrieb Mud:

Thanks shagrat.  I know how to do that and had already set up a radio broadcasting "Grossdeutscher Rundfunk".
Just was not sure whether or not the same was required for airfields at the moment for direction finding.

 

The WWII airfields don't have any beacons, so you need to improvise by setting up a "beacon", manually. ILS like directional transmission isn't possible, so you can only emulate an NDB/location beacon. Together with a "know" runway heading and dead reckoning, this should get you on a good enough approach at night, or with a bit of weather... In full IFR conditions where you can't see beyond your wipers, well you get a realistic WWII heartbeat skipping experience.😇

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Shagrat

 

- Flying Sims since 1984 -:pilotfly:

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I have yet to get this to work on a multiplayer server.  I'm trying to duplicate what Reflected Simulations showed in his Mosquito Radio and Navigation video with a nav. beacon and period radio broadcasts.  I've used units, I've tried trigger zones.  It all works fine in single player but won't work on multiplayer.

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On 9/26/2021 at 8:04 AM, Magnum said:

Think I got it worked out. If anyone would like to confirm my workaround your more than welcome to download this proof of concept mission https://www.dropbox.com/s/j3i9x4zdix3v2zr/Mosquito%20Radio%20example.miz?dl=0

I've just tried this out on my groups multiplayer testing server and it works in multiplayer, Thanks

 

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OK here is one.  I've set this up in a mission but waiting until the weekend where I can have a pilot while I play "monkey with the radios".

 

This isn't exactly what I have setup but enough where you will get the gist of it:

 

Since DME didn't exist in the 40's, getting a solid bearing from one beacon, then using the aerial turned a known direction we can get a known point (distance) along that bearing in which to perform the next step.

 

I have a beacon transmitting on WP 1.  Once over that beacon the pilot will turn to a heading of 270 degrees.  I have another beacon setup a few miles North of WP 2.  My idea is to turn the aerial 90 degrees right (actual heading of North looking for the North of WP 2 beacon).  When this beacon goes silent I will have the pilot turn the new course. 

 

In my mind (only novice navigation knowledge on my part) this should work.  Any thoughts from the peanut gallery?.  If it does I can then use this technique to signal a bomb drop without having a friendly beacon provider in the vicinity of the enemy forces.  Obviously the further away the "bearing beacon" not "flyover beacon" is from the turn point the greater the error will be, and that can be accounted for with practice. 

 

I've seen the Oboe mission script floating around and I'm trying to do a "poor mans Oboe", call it a Clarinet, by using my flight-path from the WP 1 beacon as one beam of the Oboe system and the second beacon as the intersecting beam.  The issue is we can only truly follow one radio at a time.... unless I'm missing something big  - which is likely.

 

I've been wracking my brain trying to come up with a way to use 2 radio systems to provide a intersecting point over enemy territory without scripting and using existing DCS resources.  This, if it works, will maybe be the best we have. 

 

I'm currently looking for ways to use French resistance forces to provide signaling abilities for friendly attacks. 

 

If what I have works, then I will bring the mission file here so others can use and tweak it.  It may be a good RNAV practice mission. 

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2 hours ago, granola1861 said:

OK here is one.  I've set this up in a mission but waiting until the weekend where I can have a pilot while I play "monkey with the radios".

 

This isn't exactly what I have setup but enough where you will get the gist of it:

 

Since DME didn't exist in the 40's, getting a solid bearing from one beacon, then using the aerial turned a known direction we can get a known point (distance) along that bearing in which to perform the next step.

 

I have a beacon transmitting on WP 1.  Once over that beacon the pilot will turn to a heading of 270 degrees.  I have another beacon setup a few miles North of WP 2.  My idea is to turn the aerial 90 degrees right (actual heading of North looking for the North of WP 2 beacon).  When this beacon goes silent I will have the pilot turn the new course. 

 

In my mind (only novice navigation knowledge on my part) this should work.  Any thoughts from the peanut gallery?.  If it does I can then use this technique to signal a bomb drop without having a friendly beacon provider in the vicinity of the enemy forces.  Obviously the further away the "bearing beacon" not "flyover beacon" is from the turn point the greater the error will be, and that can be accounted for with practice. 

 

I've seen the Oboe mission script floating around and I'm trying to do a "poor mans Oboe", call it a Clarinet, by using my flight-path from the WP 1 beacon as one beam of the Oboe system and the second beacon as the intersecting beam.  The issue is we can only truly follow one radio at a time.... unless I'm missing something big  - which is likely.

 

I've been wracking my brain trying to come up with a way to use 2 radio systems to provide a intersecting point over enemy territory without scripting and using existing DCS resources.  This, if it works, will maybe be the best we have. 

 

I'm currently looking for ways to use French resistance forces to provide signaling abilities for friendly attacks. 

 

If what I have works, then I will bring the mission file here so others can use and tweak it.  It may be a good RNAV practice mission. 

 

Easy on theory, hard to do in practice. But it can work. 

In your example, the target would be 270 degress of beacon 01 and 180 degress of beacon 2, right?

So the antenna should be turned 90 degress relative to the nose of the aircraft.

 

Could work. Heck, you could even make this more complicated, with the target being, let's say, 330 of beacon 1 and 240 of beacon 2.

With the same 90 degress antenna position.

 

Navigation has to be very precise though. As the use with the aerial; the position of the antenna should be pre-briefed beacuse doing this calculations on the fly can get complicated very fast. Would be easier in multiplayer, when you have one flying and other player monitoring the radios. 

 

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On 9/25/2021 at 11:28 AM, No1sonuk said:

Some corrections for you:
The word is "heterodyne".
"CW" = Continuous Wave.  This was called "Wireless Telegraphy" ( or "WT" ), not "wireless radiotelephonery" as you said.
"R/T" = Radio Telephony.  The "phon(e)" part refers to voice transmission.

As for how to use this equipment, There's a decent video here:
 


He has a couple of errors, like thinking "R/T" is "receive and transmit", and his NDB beacon morse code is wrong, but it's a decent description.

This one covers some of the above, but it includes how to set up a beacon and a practical example of beam approach:

 

Typos occur on phones, and I had been editing some of that didn't catch everything. And I had cw in there. Cw  is transmission type not associated with Morse code the meaning of it is a bit out the realm of relevancy to a dcs player.  The point was to translate what might be found in period manuals that user might resort to into something they can relate to and not drag them through tube,capacitor, and trimmer functions 


Edited by FlyingTaco21
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10 hours ago, FlyingTaco21 said:

Typos occur on phones, and I had been editing some of that didn't catch everything. And I had cw in there. Cw  is transmission type not associated with Morse code the meaning of it is a bit out the realm of relevancy to a dcs player.  The point was to translate what might be found in period manuals that user might resort to into something they can relate to and not drag them through tube,capacitor, and trimmer functions 

 

On the contrary, CW IS now, and was also then, associated with Morse transmission.  "Continuous Wave" means unmodulated.  You send the message by turning it on and off.
If you don't use Morse code, what other code do you use?  Baudot code?

You didn't address my central points, though, that "WT" is "Wireless TELEGRAPHY" (morse), NOT "telephonery" (which is a word I've never heard of outside this thread), and "R/T" is "Radio TELEPHONY" (voice).
If you're going to present information as though you're an authority, you should at least get it right.  "Dumbing it down" is no excuse for such inaccuracies.

In your post, you wrote " the British call this" implying you may not be British.
Well I am a licenced British Amateur Radio operator with a full licence since 1989...

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@No1sonukWould you mind if I sent you a couple of questions via private messages? I'm currently working on an operation guide for the T1154/R1155, but not being a radio expert myself there are a few basic questions I have on the whole system, and so far the explanations you have given in this thread seem to be exactly what I'm looking for. 

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14 minutes ago, Charly_Owl said:

@No1sonukWould you mind if I sent you a couple of questions via private messages? I'm currently working on an operation guide for the T1154/R1155, but not being a radio expert myself there are a few basic questions I have on the whole system, and so far the explanations you have given in this thread seem to be exactly what I'm looking for. 

Yeah, that's fine.  PM away.
But there is a caveat - there are some issues with the in-game implementation that are bug-reported.

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Radio nav mission tested and works well!  As promised I'll drop the mission file link here as well as a kneeboard page that has the navigation information included. 

 

Tip:  The first two waypoints are marked by fire/smoke.  Once at WP 2 turn 270 degrees and follow nav notes. 

 

I think this is a way to greatly increase beacon usage without flying directly over a beacon and with multiple beacons placed on a map you could navigate anywhere a mission could take you.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1I5D3LSrpsE_0rMGjsm7mI4Jy4nb_PNgE/view?usp=sharing

enjoy!

 

-Climber

RNAV Practice.png

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Hello

To add an ILS to eg the channel map, you need to edit 

Beacons.lua 

Currently the list of beacons  is empty, you can replace with the text in the spoiler  , and get an ILS in Manston, 

Unfortunately, I did not find a way to add to the list from saved game, so you have to replace the file in {game directory}\Mods\terrains\TheChannel

A good point is that the runway heading is geographic, so this should work any year.

Also, this works the same on P-47, configure BC1206 to the ILS frequency in the mission editor and turn up Detrola volume in plane (do not change frequency)

I have not found the buttons on the Spitfire , although ME radio configuartion is in.

 

Spoiler

dofile('Scripts/Database/wsTypes.lua')
dofile('Scripts/World/Radio/BeaconTypes.lua')
dofile('Scripts/World/Radio/BeaconSites.lua')

local disableNauticalBeacons = true

local gettext = require("i_18n")
local       _ = gettext.translate

--WORLD BEACONS

beaconsTableFormat = 2
beacons = {
    {
        display_name = _('');
        beaconId = 'Gabuzomeu';
        type = BEACON_TYPE_ILS_LOCALIZER;
        callsign = 'IGSN';
        frequency = 110000000.000000; -- frequency in Herz
        position = { 51960, 48.4, -14441 }; -- in game coordinates of distant end of runway use Alt-Y in ME, X, altitude in meters, Z
        direction = -78; -- in degrees , geographic
        positionGeo = { latitude = 15.124498, longitude = 145.743327 }; -- unknown figuires here from Mariana map
        sceneObjects = {'t:174948353'}; -- unknown, no effect
        chartOffsetX = 2750;  -- runway length in meters
    };
}

 

 

Et voilà! ILS Manston 1945 : attached test mission, choose from Mustang, Mosquito and Thunderbolt,( contact  Manston on Channel B), raise Detrola volume, or activate correct Beam Approach A 1271 switch in Mosquito

 

image.png

Beacon.miz


Edited by gabuzomeu
Add P47 and mission
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  • 3 weeks later...
On 9/21/2021 at 12:45 PM, Bozon said:

So, can we use this in multiplayer as a primitive TACAN to get a bearing to my wingman?

 

I mean, my wingman transmits a continuous signal with the T1154 and I tune the R1155 to his freq. in DF mode, then point my nose at him using the pilot’s DF  indicator?

 

Has anyone got this working? I think the T1154 isn't implemented. I can get Morse sounds out of the R1155 as if I'd backtuned it to the tx frequency but that happens even while I'm winding the tx frequency knob up and down through several kHz...

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