Is it possible to trim this aircraft to fly hands off

[Ercoupe]

Brems....that's what I'm doing and it works. 

[Art-J]

^ Well, good for you if you feel this way, but you and NineLine seem to be the only ones claiming that it's OK. "It works" - yes, it kind of does, for how long, though, before VVI goes up or down again? Half a minute if you're lucky?

 

Also, If you actually read carefully all the posts related to the subject in various threads, you would notice people have been writing more than once about tapping the switches / buttons / keys indeed. We know how to do it thank you very much because we've been doing it since 2017 (Spit release, followed by Thunderbolt, both with very responsive elevators).

 

If ED themselves implemented slower rotation on pitch trim wheel in the Spitfire for the very purpose of providing more precise trim control, there's no logical reason why they can't do it in the Mossie.

Edited October 8, 2021 by Art-J

[rkk01]

As described above ^^ there’s no logic to her being “tail heavy”…

 

All the weight is forward on the Mossie - engines, guns, crew etc

Is it more a case that she has a big wing, located far forward in the fuselage???  The lift vector must act further to the front than other aircraft

(granted, CoG should also be far forward, but even if these balance, does their of centre position in the airframe lead to the pitch sensitivity?)

Of course, that same large wing is what allowed her to carry such heavy fuel and bomb load outs

 

 

[Lace]

16 hours ago, Ercoupe said:

Brems....that's what I'm doing and it works. 

 

Trims fine for me too, but that's not to say a bit more fine control of the trim wheel would not make things easier.

[Bremspropeller]

Again, not for me. The shortest possible blip on the trim is still too coarse to work out.

[NineLine]

On 10/8/2021 at 1:22 PM, Art-J said:

but you and NineLine seem to be the only ones claiming that it's OK.

I have dug into it some more, for long term hands off flight, I cant see it happening right now, I am finding the same things, maybe more. It seems the trim, least in my flying doesnt respond as it should until you 1) set the trim 2) move the controls. I especially noticed this with rudder trim, I am going to keep fiddling with it, but I am seeing trim being too sensitive.

If you guys are seeing similar to me, on top of the sensitivity, let me know.

Thanks.

[Nealius]

After editing the pitch trim speed to 0.3 and -0.3 in the input lua files I can trim her almost hands off. 

[JimBo*]

"hands off"...

what altitude, speed and how long, what is "hands off"

is it just long enough to look at the F10 map and not crash... or know you've got 20 minute flight across channel, go fix a cup, let the dog out and the cat in, check FB and come back with 5 minutes left to cross and still on course and holding altitude?

[Nealius]

31 minutes ago, JimBo* said:

what altitude, speed and how long, what is "hands off"

Doesn't matter, since trim settings will be different for all three. But to answer your question, long enough for a quick glance at the F10 map. Which is really risky even in the modern FBW stuff because the F10 map completely destroys your SA. We really need the ability to put the F10 map on the kneeboard so we can reference the map while still seeing cockpit instrumentation/outside the cabin like we would be able to in real life.

  

31 minutes ago, JimBo* said:

20 minute flight across channel, go fix a cup, let the dog out and the cat in, check FB and come back with 5 minutes left to cross and still on course and holding altitude?

If you want to do that then warbirds aren't for you. 

Edited October 20, 2021 by Nealius

[stuart666]

Ive found adjusting this to 0.20 (thanks to the original fella for posting that up) and you can trim it out quite nicely. Dont forget to use aileron trim as well. Its not perfect, but to be honest, im far from certain its not supposed to be like this.

 

[Barrett_g]

On 10/19/2021 at 6:12 PM, NineLine said:

I have dug into it some more, for long term hands off flight, I cant see it happening right now, I am finding the same things, maybe more. It seems the trim, least in my flying doesnt respond as it should until you 1) set the trim 2) move the controls. I especially noticed this with rudder trim, I am going to keep fiddling with it, but I am seeing trim being too sensitive.

If you guys are seeing similar to me, on top of the sensitivity, let me know.

Thanks.

Both the P-47 and the Mosquito’s trim (by keyboard button taps) are too sensitive.  Other warbirds may suffer from this as well but I don’t fly them enough to notice.

The P-47 porpoises as you try to trim the pitch axis.

The Mosquito is much worse!  Way too sensitive.

Both planes have “trim” threads and people who have fixed it using .lua edits to reduce the sensitivity per button push.

It would be nice if ED added the suggested .lua edits so we wouldn’t have to re-edit the .lua files after each update.

If ED wanted to go above and beyond they would add a “sensitivity slider” to the trim commands so you could map your buttons, adjust the slider and then go fly with whatever setting you preferred.

[Hiob]

20 minutes ago, Barrett_g said:

It would be nice if ED added the suggested .lua edits so we wouldn’t have to re-edit the .lua files after each update.

If you happen to use a mod-manager, you can make the corrected .lua a standalone "mod" and reapply it by a tick after each update.

But you're of course right. It would be pretty simple tweak for ED to do.

And I don't understand the whole discussion. It has nothing to do with the flight modell. It's just a quirk in how the inputs are translated into the game.

[Barrett_g]

9 hours ago, Hiob said:

And I don't understand the whole discussion. It has nothing to do with the flight modell. It's just a quirk in how the inputs are translated into the game.

You hit the nail on the head!!!  That, in my opinion, seems to be our biggest issue when reporting this to ED.

It seems to me, when we report “Trim Sensitivity” to ED, they take this as a personal attack on their flight model.  They check their math and reiterate that “nothing is wrong” and refuse to make any changes.

No one is saying the flight model is wrong.

All I’m saying…. Is when I tap my keyboard button once… it over rotates the pitch trim wheel down. The plane goes into a dive.

I tap my keyboard button once… it over rotates the pitch trim wheel up. The plane goes into a climb.

I can’t trim the plane to fly level because my virtual pilot is over cranking the pitch trim wheel, causing my plane to porpoise through the sky.

All I want to do is lessen the pitch trim wheel rotation per keystroke.  It’s a simple .lua value edit and should be incorporated into an official update.

 

[stuart666]

Yes, thats exactly the problem. I think their flight model is right, the control mapping for moving trim is wrong. It needs to be much finer. Or, and here is a crazy idea. Have a rough trim to move it quick, and another key to fine adjust. Thats all.

[Art-J]

^ They could also use P-51 module method, ie. it starts rotating slowly at first and accelerates later when the key/button is still being pressed.

[The LT]

Yes, thats exactly the problem. I think their flight model is right, the control mapping for moving trim is wrong. It needs to be much finer. Or, and here is a crazy idea. Have a rough trim to move it quick, and another key to fine adjust. Thats all.

You can do it by adding custom bindings.