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Up/neutral/down bindings for landing gear


Funky
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If we could get separate bindings for the up, middle and down positions of the landing gear lever, that would be excellent. I use the virpil control panel with the landing gear lever, and it supports three position gear levers. Would love to be able to use it.

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51 minutes ago, No1sonuk said:

Likewise for the bomb doors and flap lever.

I've been trying to figure out a way to program an arduino-based controller to do it automatically, but I can't get it to work reliably with no lever position feedback.

Agreed, my winwing gear lever, has 3 positions,  and I can use my carrier hook for flaps/bomb doors as it to has 3 positions. 

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1 hour ago, Funky said:

If we could get separate bindings for the up, middle and down positions of the landing gear lever, that would be excellent. I use the virpil control panel with the landing gear lever, and it supports three position gear levers. Would love to be able to use it.

The existing commands "Undercarriage gear, lever - pull up" and "...push down" work with a 3-position (ON1 -OFF-ON2) switch. I have bound the 2 commands to the "PATH" and "ALT" positions of the autopilot switch on my TM WH throttle and that works. Of course you need to use the lock gate  to enable the movements.

LeCuvier

Windows 10 Pro 64Bit | i7-4790 CPU |16 GB RAM|SSD System Disk|SSD Gaming Disk| MSI GTX-1080 Gaming 8 GB| Acer XB270HU | TM Warthog HOTAS | VKB Gladiator Pro | MongoosT-50 | MFG Crosswind Pedals | TrackIR 5

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I also thought at first that kind of bindings would have been nice to have. Then I read the manual, all those three levers are suppose to come back to centre automatically after use. First time you use them you come to think they are somewhat alike MiG levers where you have to pull them back to centre, but they aren't exactly. If they don't come back to centre on their own is only because we're using three way toggle switches making up and down positions fixed since they are permanently pushing the button/lever up or down.

 

S!


Edited by Ala13_ManOWar
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"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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38 minutes ago, Ala13_ManOWar said:

I also thought at first that kind of bindings would have been nice to have. Then I read the manual, all those three levers are suppose to come back to centre automatically after use. First time you use them you come to think they are somewhat alike MiG levers where you have to pull them back to centre, but they aren't exactly. If they don't come back to centre on their own is only because we're using three way toggle switches making up and down positions fixed since they are permanently pushing the button/lever up or down.

 

S!

 

That may be the case with the gear and bomb doors where they're up/down or open/closed, but the flaps position is variable, so you stop it where it's needed.

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16 minutes ago, No1sonuk said:

That may be the case with the gear and bomb doors where they're up/down or open/closed, but the flaps position is variable, so you stop it where it's needed.

Also the flaps lever will return automatically, after the flaps reach the maximum @45° (or are retracted). But a 3 position switch (up/neutral/down) would be nice for this.

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2 hours ago, No1sonuk said:

That may be the case with the gear and bomb doors where they're up/down or open/closed, but the flaps position is variable, so you stop it where it's needed.

Yes, still a non permanent three way switch for that would be pretty much accurate and appropriate than toggles. And besides, OP tittle says Landing gear lever 😁.

 

S!


Edited by Ala13_ManOWar

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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I found a way for the landing gear switch. I added the two lines below to the "default.lua":

{cockpit_device_id = devices.THREE_WAY_SELECTOR, pressed = device_commands.Button_4, down = device_commands.Button_2, up = device_commands.Button_2, value_pressed = 1.0, value_down = 1.0,  value_up = 0.0, name = _("Gate Up and Chassis Lever Pull-Up/Middle"), category = {_("Systems"), _("Hydraulic System")}},
{cockpit_device_id = devices.THREE_WAY_SELECTOR, pressed = device_commands.Button_4, down = device_commands.Button_2, up = device_commands.Button_2, value_pressed = 1.0, value_down = -1.0,  value_up = 0.0, name = _("Gate Up and Chassis Lever Push-Down/Middle"), category = {_("Systems"), _("Hydraulic System")}},

I bound these new commands to the 3-position Autopilot switch on my TM WH throttle and it worked acceptably for me. Correct operation requires that after pushing down or pulling up, you have to return the switch to the Center position, and wait till the lever in the sim has returned to the Center position, before you activate the switch in the opposite direction.

Note: These 2 commands work also with 2 pushbuttons or a 3-position switch with spring return to OFF. That is my preferred solution.

The same approach might work with the two other 3-position levers, but I won't able to play with this for a while.

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LeCuvier

Windows 10 Pro 64Bit | i7-4790 CPU |16 GB RAM|SSD System Disk|SSD Gaming Disk| MSI GTX-1080 Gaming 8 GB| Acer XB270HU | TM Warthog HOTAS | VKB Gladiator Pro | MongoosT-50 | MFG Crosswind Pedals | TrackIR 5

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36 minutes ago, LeCuvier said:

I found a way for the landing gear switch. I added the two lines below to the "default.lua":

{cockpit_device_id = devices.THREE_WAY_SELECTOR, pressed = device_commands.Button_4, down = device_commands.Button_2, up = device_commands.Button_2, value_pressed = 1.0, value_down = 1.0,  value_up = 0.0, name = _("Gate Up and Chassis Lever Pull-Up/Middle"), category = {_("Systems"), _("Hydraulic System")}},
{cockpit_device_id = devices.THREE_WAY_SELECTOR, pressed = device_commands.Button_4, down = device_commands.Button_2, up = device_commands.Button_2, value_pressed = 1.0, value_down = -1.0,  value_up = 0.0, name = _("Gate Up and Chassis Lever Push-Down/Middle"), category = {_("Systems"), _("Hydraulic System")}},

I bound these new commands to the 3-position Autopilot switch on my TM WH throttle and it worked acceptably for me. Correct operation requires that after pushing down or pulling up, you have to return the switch to the Center position, and wait till the lever in the sim has returned to the Center position, before you activate the switch in the opposite direction.

Note: These 2 commands work also with 2 pushbuttons or a 3-position switch with spring return to OFF. That is my preferred solution.

The same approach might work with the two other 3-position levers, but I won't able to play with this for a while.

The bomb doors already work like that.

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In-cockpit there are levers with an upward, centered, and downward positions.

 

I have switches on my HOTAS with upward, centered, and downward positions.

 

This is exactly like the F/A-18C's so-called 'Special For Joystick' binds for the flaps; basically two simple On/Off switch binds with the middle position being the unasserted  position for each bind, which corresponds exactly to a three-way (On/Off/On) switch.

 

These are simple things which have already been done many times in other modules. This should be no issue to fix.

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

hwl7xqL.gif

System Specs.

Spoiler
System board: MSI X99A GAMING 9 ACK Memory: 16GB DDR4-3000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 1TB
CPU: Intel Core i7-5820K @ 3800MHz PSU: Corsair AX860i PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27"
CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15 Graphics card: Zotac Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Amp! Extreme VR: Oculus Rift CV1
 
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All I ask for is to be able to operate the flaps/bay/gears levers with just 2 buttons each:

Press “down” to move one position down, press “up” to move one position up.

The change in position includes automatic operating whatever latches are there to achieve the shifting of the level.

 

While I appreciate the details of the latches when operating the levers with the mouse, I don’t have enough keys to assign to multiple latches. In practice I am not operating levels and latches - I operate plastic buttons, so having to assign buttons to latches bears very little on realism or immersion.

 

Thanks.

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“Mosquitoes fly, but flies don’t Mosquito” :pilotfly:

- Geoffrey de Havilland.

 

... well, he could have said it!

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Very much this, the Honey comb has a two way landing gear, up or down. Neutral means it’s unusable. I know it’s real to have the neutral but maybe something in the special option?

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If everything seems under control, you’re just not going fast enough.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 9/18/2021 at 2:39 PM, felixx75 said:

Also the flaps lever will return automatically, after the flaps reach the maximum @45° (or are retracted). But a 3 position switch (up/neutral/down) would be nice for this.

Use a (MON)-OFF-(MON) switch, their lever spring back to center position when released.

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Would dearly love the Bomb Bay Doors,Undercarriage and the Flaps to be on separate 'optional' Axis.....you would then be able  to operate them like the real WW2 aircraft...this gives immersion to the PC Sim pilot.....for me immersion is everything.

Switching on a switch to operate these operations as we have in game to date does'nt cut it for me.....sorry ED but it's about as interesting as switching on your living room lights......this has no immersion whatsoever.....it's devoid of immersion and bores me to death.

I cannot understand why Ed does'nt create these operations as a 'optional' Axis.....it can't be that difficult,it has been created by other flight sims so why has'nt Ed done likewise ?

They've done a beautiful job with the Mossie,it really is a  masterpiece......by far my personal favourite module to date.....so thank you very much Ed.....and yet it's let down by these primitive on/off controls to operate these WW2 warbird controls such as the undercarriage/flaps/bomb bay doors that are crying out to be on an Axis and that were in real life were controlled on an Axis style lever.

Examples,the Spitfire has undercarriage levers,the Mosquito has under carriage levers,the P-47 has undercarriage levers,the P-51 Mustang has undercarriage levers......need I elaborate any further ?.....many of these also have their flaps operated by Axis style levers too,and the Mossie has an Axis style lever to open/close the bomb bay doors.

So please Ed,if you get to read this 'please consider' these operations to be created for 'optional' Axis control in the future,I say optional as I know some won't have the available Axis on their controllers.....so if you have'nt fine,I understand your situation.....but for the many that do,we'd love these controls to be on an 'optional' Axis.

Ed your Warbirds are fantastic.....but are poorly let down IMHO because of the lack of immersion giving 'optional' Axis control assignment.....and I am talking Warbirds here everyone,not the jets...Warbirds,in case anybody is not clear on this.


Edited by Basco1

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11 hours ago, Basco1 said:

...you would then be able  to operate them like the real WW2 aircraft...

If you want to operate the bomb doors like in the real Mosquito, you need a lever, wich will come back into the neutral position automatically, after reaching the fully closed / open position (like the flaps lever and the gear lever).

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4 hours ago, felixx75 said:

If you want to operate the bomb doors like in the real Mosquito, you need a lever, wich will come back into the neutral position automatically, after reaching the fully closed / open position (like the flaps lever and the gear lever).

 

Agreed, really the only way to do this would be as Sokol suggested 

On 10/15/2021 at 11:10 PM, Sokol1_br said:

Use a (MON)-OFF-(MON) switch, their lever spring back to center position when released.

I am making a Mossie gear panel and this is the way I am going to do it. Rig the levers to a momentary switch that will push the lever back into the neutral position. 

Windows 10 Pro | ASUS RANGER VIII | i5 6600K @ 4.6GHz| MSI RTX 2060 SUPER | 32GB RAM | Corsair H100i | Corsair Carbide 540 | HP Reverb G2 | MFG crosswind Pedals | Custom Spitfire Cockpit

Project IX Cockpit

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16 hours ago, felixx75 said:

If you want to operate the bomb doors like in the real Mosquito, you need a lever, wich will come back into the neutral position automatically, after reaching the fully closed / open position (like the flaps lever and the gear lever).

No, that's not correct. I have the bomb bay doors assigned to a three way switch. To open the doors I flip the switch aft and immediately return it to center. In-cockpit the lever moves down and stays there while the doors are opening. Once open, in-cockpit the lever moves to the middle automatically. While closing it works exactly the same.

The problem with the other levers (flaps and undercarriage), is that they have a lock mechanism to prevent you from moving them in one direction, without first unlocking the movement in that direction. NO ONE has enough buttons and switches on their HOTAS, button boxes, and control panels to have additional switches and buttons to emulate these extra unlocking mechanisms. You are forced to use the keyboard (NOT VIABLE IN VR!!) or the mouse (one of the worst and most lazy solutions implemented).

There are many in-cockpit devices in aircraft with Real-World™ unlock mechanisms, which in DCS simply work by operating the device - the unlocking is understood and not required as an additional step.

This has been done already many times. It's not a new invention - just-do-it.gif

😉


Edited by Captain Orso

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

hwl7xqL.gif

System Specs.

Spoiler
System board: MSI X99A GAMING 9 ACK Memory: 16GB DDR4-3000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 1TB
CPU: Intel Core i7-5820K @ 3800MHz PSU: Corsair AX860i PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27"
CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15 Graphics card: Zotac Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Amp! Extreme VR: Oculus Rift CV1
 
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😗ooooOOOOOOoooo.... do you have a guide on how to build one of those things?

Am thinking about putting something together with a bicycle brake lever and a hall sensor to use for the brake lever in the Spitfire and Mossie.

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

hwl7xqL.gif

System Specs.

Spoiler
System board: MSI X99A GAMING 9 ACK Memory: 16GB DDR4-3000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 1TB
CPU: Intel Core i7-5820K @ 3800MHz PSU: Corsair AX860i PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27"
CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15 Graphics card: Zotac Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Amp! Extreme VR: Oculus Rift CV1
 
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7 hours ago, Captain Orso said:

😗ooooOOOOOOoooo.... do you have a guide on how to build one of those things?

Am thinking about putting something together with a bicycle brake lever and a hall sensor to use for the brake lever in the Spitfire and Mossie.

WRT Brake lever, I'm going this route right now as I have the Warthog stick:
https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/13013-устройства-для-домашнего-кокпита/page/7/?tab=comments#comment-851708

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On 10/17/2021 at 1:59 PM, Captain Orso said:

No, that's not correct. I have the bomb bay doors assigned to a three way switch. To open the doors I flip the switch aft and immediately return it to center. In-cockpit the lever moves down and stays there while the doors are opening. Once open, in-cockpit the lever moves to the middle automatically. While closing it works exactly the same.

The problem with the other levers (flaps and undercarriage), is that they have a lock mechanism to prevent you from moving them in one direction, without first unlocking the movement in that direction. NO ONE has enough buttons and switches on their HOTAS, button boxes, and control panels to have additional switches and buttons to emulate these extra unlocking mechanisms. You are forced to use the keyboard (NOT VIABLE IN VR!!) or the mouse (one of the worst and most lazy solutions implemented).

There are many in-cockpit devices in aircraft with Real-World™ unlock mechanisms, which in DCS simply work by operating the device - the unlocking is understood and not required as an additional step...

 

I have bound it to a 3 position momentarily switch and it works just fine. All levers (gear, flaps and doors) return to the neutral/off position in the cockpit and yes, I have enough switches to bind the levers and the safety switches, so no key commands for me 😉

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5 hours ago, No1sonuk said:

Wow, thanks, that's pretty cool. Is it possible to build a hall sensor into the tiny engineering space? Has anyone done it? Any documentation?

I was thinking of putting the sensor into a switch box and connecting the lever with a standard bicycle brake cable to the switch box, kind of like how the brake lever in the real Spitfires and Mosquitos worked, and then attaching the cable to the hall sensor inside the switch box.

But you would still need to have a switch box/controller to hook the hall sensor upto. So, can you point me to instructions to build the controller/switch box?

2 hours ago, felixx75 said:

I have bound it to a 3 position momentarily switch and it works just fine. All levers (gear, flaps and doors) return to the neutral/off position in the cockpit and yes, I have enough switches to bind the levers and the safety switches, so no key commands for me 😉

You can also mod the default.lua to use "press" to operate the latch at the same time the lever is moved, which partially works, but not everywhere. I have yet to figure out why.

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

hwl7xqL.gif

System Specs.

Spoiler
System board: MSI X99A GAMING 9 ACK Memory: 16GB DDR4-3000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 1TB
CPU: Intel Core i7-5820K @ 3800MHz PSU: Corsair AX860i PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27"
CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15 Graphics card: Zotac Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Amp! Extreme VR: Oculus Rift CV1
 
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If you have Voice Attack you can have that send multiple key presses when it reads a button or switch on your HOTAS.  That's how I get round the flaps and gear lever catches.

How to is in another thread somewhere in here - hopefully not this one!

VFRHawk

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18 hours ago, Captain Orso said:

Wow, thanks, that's pretty cool. Is it possible to build a hall sensor into the tiny engineering space? Has anyone done it? Any documentation?

I was thinking of putting the sensor into a switch box and connecting the lever with a standard bicycle brake cable to the switch box, kind of like how the brake lever in the real Spitfires and Mosquitos worked, and then attaching the cable to the hall sensor inside the switch box.

But you would still need to have a switch box/controller to hook the hall sensor upto. So, can you point me to instructions to build the controller/switch box?

The only "documentation" I have is that post.

He says:
"Sensors that can be installed.

Analog potentiometer-V10K.

TLE-5010\11

AS-5600"

The TLE-5010/11 and AS-5600 are serial interface digital sensors ( i.e. a PITA to code for 😉 )

I'm going to ask him what kind of analogue pot he's using because it looks to me like a standard on won't fit.

I'm likely to try an analogue hall sensor and either a Pro Micro, Leonardo, or even a Bodnar board for the PC interface.

I finished printing the parts yesterday.  My bearings came today.

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