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A/G Gun maximum range not changing when manually changing the type of rounds


BarTzi

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With the recent update, we now have more types of ammunition available for the gun. 


As many of you know by now, you can select the type of round the gun is using in the stores page (M50 or PGU).


In A/A mode, selecting PGU will change the position of the reticle and also move the gun maximum range cue clockwise (which means the shoot cue will be displayed earlier). This is noticable only when you have a radar lock, as you can see in the attached track.

In A/G mode, selecting either type of round will only change the position of the reticle, and have no impact on the in-range or soot cue. The fact the reticle is changing the position of the maximum range of the gun only in A/A mode is not correct.

As you can see here, the type of round does have an impact on the position of the maximum range cue (the pilot gets the in range cue much further than what's possible in DCS at the moment).

It's also worth mentioning that the maximum range cue isn't static in this video, and is slowly moving counterclockwise from 8 to 7 o'clock as the pilot rolls in (unlike in DCS, where it is just fixed at 0.8nm slant range).
 

 

Gun sight adjustment air to air.trk Gun sight adjustment air to ground.trk


Edited by BarTzi
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On 9/18/2021 at 1:11 PM, BarTzi said:

In A/G mode, selecting either type of round will only change the position of the reticle, and have no impact on the in-range or soot cue. The fact the reticle is changing the position of the maximum range of the gun only in A/A mode is not correct.

 

Hi,

 

in my tests this looks to be correct, 

 

The images below are active paused when the in range cue is showing for M50, switching between the different ammo selection changes the reticle and the in range cue.
Screen_210921_113843.png
Screen_210921_113846.png
thanks

smallCATPILOT.PNG.04bbece1b27ff1b2c193b174ec410fc0.PNG

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7 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

 

Hi,

 

in my tests this looks to be correct, 

 

The images below are active paused when the in range cue is showing for M50, switching between the different ammo selection changes the reticle and the in range cue.
Screen_210921_113843.png
Screen_210921_113846.png
thanks

 

 

Hi Bignewy, you are, in fact, showing the bug.

 

The maximum range cue doesn't move a pixel in both of your pics, and I know that because I overlayed them in PS. It's the range from target that's different (probably a side effect of how those pictures were taken in active pause). This is why you have the in-range cue show up in only one of them. 

It's also backwards, since M50 has a lower muzzle velocity, it doesn't really make sense that those rounds are in range and the PGU rounds aren't.

However, if you compare this to the A/A mode gun sight with a radar lock, you will find out that it's done the correct way:

M50:
 

OcZKTB3.png


PGU:

2fUTbB8.png

Both:
IYxwK9h.jpg
Both of those pictures were taken with active pause, and my target was moving between frames. Does it matter? no. I'm only talking about the max range indication. The maximum range of the gun doesn't really care how far the target is. It's just an indication of the maximum range. PGU rounds have more range, so the adjustment of the max range cue is correct in that case. 

I expect the same in A/G mode, as there's no reason for the increased range to be available only when shooting at airborne targets (as was shown in the pictures that you posted, the max range cue is not adjusted when you change the type of ammo).

 


Please take a look and compare the A/G sight to this one, and try to complete the same run in DCS - you will fail. It's impossible, as the max range cue won't adjust (in A/G mode) when you manually change to PGU.


 


Edited by BarTzi
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I will run it by the team in the morning, I maybe miss-understanding. 

 

thanks

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Just a quick follow up for more pictures.

1. This is a picture made in photoshop, of the air to air gun sights with radar lock, overlayed on top of eachother (made from the pictures I posted above). You can see the differences in the location of the maximum range cue:


WgDAE7D.jpg

2. This is a picture of the A/G gun sight with M50 and PGU selected*. You can see the maximum range cue is in the exact same location, and that the differences that were noticable in A/A mode are nonexistent (this is the bug). I tried to match the strafing run from the VFA-151 Vigilantes cruise video. As you can see, the max range cue is no where near where it is in the real jet (with PGU selected), which makes this run impossible to complete in DCS.

 

*selected = PGU/M50 is selected in the stores page.

JhOEDe7.jpg


Edited by BarTzi
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Hi BarTzi,

I have spoken to the team, We have constant maximum firing range in AG master mode of 5500 feet, this is based on information we have. Do you have any evidence that it should be different? If so please PM me for now this is correct as is. 

 

thank you

smallCATPILOT.PNG.04bbece1b27ff1b2c193b174ec410fc0.PNG

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2 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

Hi BarTzi,

I have spoken to the team, We have constant maximum firing range in AG master mode of 5500 feet, this is based on information we have. Do you have any evidence that it should be different? If so please PM me for now this is correct as is. 

 

thank you


Hi Bignewy, and thanks for taking the time. I think there's a misunderstanding between us. TLDR: Gun sight in A/A adjusts max range cue depending on the type of round. I'm asking for the same to happen in A/G.

Let me start by saying that at the moment we don't have a fixed range for the gun, as I've shown above. The gun sight in A/A mode displays a different max range based on the type of round used (range isn't fixed). By observing the A/A sight we conclude that using PGU rounds increase the effective range of the gun. All I'm asking is that you apply the same differences to the A/G sight, so that it matches IRL footage more closely. 

 

*If you are claiming that the gun has a fixed range no matter the round used, then it should also have a fixed range when using it in A/A mode. Once again- the differences are:

WgDAE7D.jpg

 

The left side of the following picture is a real life HUD footage from early 2000's. Please look at the location of the max range cue vs the one in the game. The pilot has the in-range cue shown at 2,200 feet (ralt), while flying 20 degrees nose down. The slant range in that picture is around 6,400 feet. The pilot is defenitely able to shoot the gun for more than the 5,500 fixed range mark. You can't complete this run in DCS.    

 

JhOEDe7.jpg

The PGU-28B is technically a better round, with lower drag, shorter TOF and higher velocity at target compared to the M50 series. This is shown in muliple public sources which I can either link here or PM you. 


 


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If you can PM me evidence that would be great, we can not use the video as we do not know what version and block it is using. The team have information already but we are happy to check again if we get some new data. 

 

thanks

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Just now, BIGNEWY said:

If you can PM me evidence that would be great, we can not use the video as we do not know what version and block it is using. The team have information already but we are happy to check again if we get some new data. 

 

thanks


PM sent. It's a 2003 cruise video, so it falls within the time frame of the plane ED is making. If it's not something that you can use, please let me know what time frame is accaptable for the team, and I will try to find more footage.

 

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We think we have found the problem and we will take a closer look. 

 

appreciate the information thank you

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