New FLIR Tech

[ebabil]

I saw this in roadmap topic and I think that it deserves a topic about it.

I wonder that if vehicles get colder if they are not working or firing like in arma3

 

 

[REALRAINBOW]

Wow

 

[QuiGon]

Some of the official announcements for this:

Quote

Thank you for your comments and support.

 

There is a little misunderstanding of new FLIR system for the DCS World and a feature of FLIR or ATFLIR for an aircraft. It's two separate projects.

 

new FLIR system covers a different approach of heat sources for terrains, ground units, aircraft with different level of additional lighting and gradients.

 

FLIR/ATFLIR system for an aircraft is a camera feature that will use current technology.

 

 

Quote

 Forward-Looking Infrared (FLIR)

 

The updated FLIR API will be used to improve the targeting pod’s infrared (black hot/white hot) cameras. This is a rather large undertaking because it not only involves programming tasks to account for thermal dynamics of world and unit objects but also creating thermal maps for all objects in DCS World and how they behave under different conditions.

 

Edited September 10, 2021 by QuiGon

[BIGNEWY]

Hi all,

 

please bare in mind this is W.I.P currently and we will share more once we are ready. 

 

Thank you

[sirrah]

1 hour ago, ebabil said:

I saw this in roadmap topic and I think that it deserves a topic about it.

I wonder that if vehicles get colder if they are not working or firing like in arma3

 

 

 

Wow, that's cool! 

 

(pun intended )

[schurem]

3 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

please bare in mind this is W.I.P currently and we will share more once we are ready. 

Well, I for one am quite happy to see progress in the work and am enthousiastic about the direction and quality of the work shown. Y'all are rockin' it hard it seems.

[BIGNEWY]

4 minutes ago, schurem said:

Well, I for one am quite happy to see progress in the work and am enthousiastic about the direction and quality of the work shown. Y'all are rockin' it hard it seems.

 

The future is looking hot for sure

 

thanks

[Harker]

Well, I for one am quite happy to see progress in the work and am enthousiastic about the direction and quality of the work shown. Y'all are rockin' it hard it seems.

Same, it looks quite nice and detailed. I'm very looking forward to see how they handle explosions, sensor saturation and gain/level adjustment, terrain, trees, textures, dust etc

[Harlikwin]

I wanna see a model of a tree...

 

Or dry ground, and wet ground. 

 

During the day, and at night... 

Edited September 12, 2021 by Harlikwin

[Tank50us]

On 9/10/2021 at 8:02 AM, BIGNEWY said:

 

The future is looking hot for sure

 

thanks

 

oh how long did it take you to think that one up? XD

[Wizard1393]

Man, I CAN'T WAIT! I've been waiting/hoping for a new FLIR model since 2015. 

[Avimimus]

On 9/10/2021 at 5:13 AM, BIGNEWY said:

Hi all,

 

please bare in mind this is W.I.P currently and we will share more once we are ready. 

 

Thank you

 

I totally understand that - however, it is quite impressive.

 

I do hope that this technology might someday grow to better modelling of contrast based locks as well (and be expanded into the visual spectrum as well). It'd be great to sometimes lose a lock for the Shkval or a targeting pod if the target has too low contrast with the terrain!

[Eihort]

It's in the Apache trailer if you look closely. Smart money says this drops with the Apache. (THIS IS PERSONAL SPECULATION)

[ebabil]

[VDV]

Looks pretty cool...So this will be an image on TGP when we have new FLIR tech? Its awesome, way more realistic.

I think its impemented on Apache already?

[silverdevil]

On 9/25/2021 at 3:24 PM, VDV said:

Looks pretty cool...So this will be an image on TGP when we have new FLIR tech? Its awesome, way more realistic.

I think its impemented on Apache already?

 

it seems reasonable to make a guess that the TGP/FLIR across all AC update will be in conjunction with apache release or before. it is my understanding that the whole flir system affects all the AC now. so problems in one AC is present in the others. i fly a10 f18 and f16. i see the same performance depending on the patch.

[Harlikwin]

On 9/25/2021 at 1:24 PM, VDV said:

Looks pretty cool...So this will be an image on TGP when we have new FLIR tech? Its awesome, way more realistic.

I think its impemented on Apache already?

 

I mean its not, if thats daytime (and judging by blue skies it is), its fairly doubtful trees would show that hot under any "normal" conditions, but it also depends on the climate, time of day and ambient air temp. But under most "normal" conditions trees are gonna be "cool" in most scenarios during the day. They will show warm at night in many cases though, again, depends on "when".

 

You can see for example here what trees/ground etc should look more like during the day.

 

Some more examples of what actual MWIR FLIR imagery should look like during the day.... Look at the trees. look at how "hot" cars are realtive to the background vs what stuff looks like in DCS, do note they do switch between WH and BH a few times in the vid... (also the res of this is significantly better than most of the TGP's of "the day" we are talking about) 

 

 

 

Some more "not hot" trees...

 

 

There are a million and one reasons "FLIR" was really powerful at night.  But well, night isn't day.

 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Harlikwin

[jubuttib]

Quick question if someone here knows about this:

 

I know that trees etc. shouldn't really be that hot or cold compared to the surrounding area in most cases, but what about reflectivity? On a sunny day, could leaves of trees reflect more IR from the sun than for example the ground would (ground vegetation often is more vertically oriented and could reflect less up to the sky where our planes are, while leaves could be more prone to doing that), making them appear relatively hot? Emissivity and reflectivity are always big issues with trying to figure out the actual temperatures of things in IR footage.

 

Just a thought, probably wrong.

[Wizard1393]

Yeah that image from the Apache looks better than what we have now, but also hope it's WIP. Trees too hot. Same as today really.

[Enduro14]

It’s WIP….. 

[Harlikwin]

17 hours ago, jubuttib said:

Quick question if someone here knows about this:

 

I know that trees etc. shouldn't really be that hot or cold compared to the surrounding area in most cases, but what about reflectivity? On a sunny day, could leaves of trees reflect more IR from the sun than for example the ground would (ground vegetation often is more vertically oriented and could reflect less up to the sky where our planes are, while leaves could be more prone to doing that), making them appear relatively hot? Emissivity and reflectivity are always big issues with trying to figure out the actual temperatures of things in IR footage.

 

Just a thought, probably wrong.

 

 

I mean trees can and do look cooler or warmer than background, it just depends on the environment alot. 

 

 

With regard to reflectivity/emissivity of veg you're partly right, except you are in the wrong part of the IR spectrum, veg does actually reflect quite a bit in the NIR. So for example with Gen3 image intensifiers (like around 800nm) (not thermals) you see that leaves will looks "bright" relative to gen2 image intensifiers. But by the time you get out to SWIR/MWIR or especially LWIR like the Apache thermal its mainly absorptive cuz of the water. In general the rule of the thumb is that the more you move toward LWIR the more "emissive" and the less "reflective" things are in IR. 
 

 

 

Edited October 1, 2021 by Harlikwin

[jubuttib]

13 hours ago, chrisofsweden said:

Yeah that image from the Apache looks better than what we have now, but also hope it's WIP. Trees too hot. Same as today really.

Looking at the teaser video, where we saw actual troops there, the trees were black while troops were white, so maybe since the trees are white in that shot that's actually a black hot image?

[Harlikwin]

2 hours ago, jubuttib said:

Looking at the teaser video, where we saw actual troops there, the trees were black while troops were white, so maybe since the trees are white in that shot that's actually a black hot image?

 

Maybe, I don't see a whot/bhot indicator in the image. But the roads are also "hot". Which well again it depends, but usually roads are warmer than ambient so if thats a daylight shot thats mostly right. 

[jubuttib]

7 hours ago, Harlikwin said:

Maybe, I don't see a whot/bhot indicator in the image. But the roads are also "hot". Which well again it depends, but usually roads are warmer than ambient so if thats a daylight shot thats mostly right. 

And it wouldn't be out of the question for both of them to use different versions of the tech, leading to different results, since it's presumably rapidly changing at the moment.

[Harlikwin]

28 minutes ago, jubuttib said:

And it wouldn't be out of the question for both of them to use different versions of the tech, leading to different results, since it's presumably rapidly changing at the moment.

 

don't know what you mean.