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VARJO VR-3 RAW REACTION: HUMAN EYE VR CLARITY


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Varjo VR-3 without Subscription  

68 members have voted

  1. 1. Could you, and if so, would you purchase this headset if it were offered without the subscription?

    • Affirmative.
      30
    • Negative.
      7
    • Wish I could, just too expensive even without subscription.
      31


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Thought I'd post a link to this video, for the DCS VR community reactions...

 

Added a poll out of curiosity, realizing of course, this is not a product for the masses,

could you, and if so, would you purchase this headset if it were offered without the subscription?

 

 

Varjo VR=3 official product page.

CPU = Intel i7-6700K

Motherboard = ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero Alpha, w/ the Intel Z170 Chipset,

RAM = 64 Gigs of Ripjaws V F4-3400C16Q.

GPU = Zotac GTX980ti Amp Extreme

Hard-drive = Samsung V-NAD SSD 950 PRO M.2

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Provided they have a 30-day "no questions asked, full refund" return policy.  VR experience varies so greatly based on hardware, program, and personal preference, that it is hard to justify that amount of money without a way to try it with minimal risk.

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i9 10900KF 3.70GHz (5.30GHz Turbo), ASUS ROG GeForce RTX 3090 OC 24GB, ASUS Z590-E GAMING Motherboard, CORSAIR Vengeance 32GB DDR4 3600MHz, 2TB Intel 660P M.2 NVMe SSD, Virpil Alpha, T-50, MFG Xwind, Reverb G2.

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4 hours ago, Brainfreeze said:

Not sure how the hardware can drive this with acceptable FPS at the moment ?

 

 

It can, but the software you run has to be designed from the ground up to for the VR platform.


Edited by Lurker

Specs: Win10, i9-9900KF@5Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM 3200XMP, 1 TB M2 NVMe SSD, KFA2 RTX3090, VR G2 Headset, Warthog Throttle+Saitek Pedals+MSFFB2  Joystick. 

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There are a few guys running DCS with this. So it does work, but they have top end systems.

 

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

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I would really like to read or see a review of use within DCS before I decided. I have a high end system and would really like to see whats possible. Anyone on these boards have one or tried one in DCS? Although, my system is not running either my pro 2 or my previous G2 at its maximum possible performance in DCS, so I am dubious if there is any point in investing if main use is for DCS. However, MSFS 20 might be a different story!!

 


Edited by markturner1960

System specs: Scan 3XS Ryzen 5900X, 64GB Corsair veng DDR4 3600, EVGA GTX 3090 Win 10. Vive pro2 , 50 inch 4K Phillips monitor. Tir5                  F/A-18C: Warthog base with RS F-18 grip, Cubesim TM MFD's, Winwing F-18 throttle, DogFightBoss UFC, Winwing panels & MK14 ACES seat :cool: 

Viper: Real simulator FSSB R3 with F-16 SGRH grip, Cougar throttle & TUSBA, plus Vipergear ICP. MFG crosswind rudders. 

Helo ( Apache) set up: Virpil collective with Alpha grip, Rainman Cyclic with Virpil Mongoose base and TM F18 grip, MFG crosswind rudders, Playseat on 3DoF motion platform. 

VR Settings: 90% (90 & 100 ), MSAA x2, shadows off, water med, terrain low, draw distance med, no aniso. DCS PD =1.    15ms GPU frame time & super smooth....looks great too.

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It’s probably the current best VR headset out there but I’m still fairly happy with the Vive Pro 2, and can’t justify that kind of money for a headset that will probably be dated in a few years.

PC: 9900K/3090, 11700K/2080Ti, 8700K/1080.

Joystick bases: TMWx2, VPC WarBRD, MT50CM2, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L

Joystick grips: TM (Warthog, F/A-18C), Realsimulator (F-16SGRH, F-18CGRH), VKB (Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro), VPC MongoosT50-CM2

Throttles: TMWx2, Winwing Super Taurus, Logitech Throttle Quadrant, Realsimulator RS Linear Throttle (soon)

VR: HTC Vive/Pro/Pro 2, Oculus Rift/Quest 2, Valve Index

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11 hours ago, markturner1960 said:

I would really like to read or see a review of use within DCS before I decided. I have a high end system and would really like to see whats possible. Anyone on these boards have one or tried one in DCS? Although, my system is not running either my pro 2 or my previous G2 at its maximum possible performance in DCS, so I am dubious if there is any point in investing if main use is for DCS. However, MSFS 20 might be a different story!!

 

 

 

There are some DCS guys on their discord. I know 1-2 people posted here about buying them in the past (older versions)

2 hours ago, Supmua said:

It’s probably the current best VR headset out there but I’m still fairly happy with the Vive Pro 2, and can’t justify that kind of money for a headset that will probably be dated in a few years.

 

Yeah, thats the thing. Its the rapid obsolescence thats a deal breaker for me. For 5k+ I'd need it to be GTG for at least 5+ years or round about 2 computer upgrade cycles for me. a G2 is like 5-600 so I can afford one every year and still be cheaper than Varjo, and I'm getting like 1-2 years out of those sets. Then there is the "how much" better part of the equation, Id estimate the G2 is at 30 PPD or so (monitor res), and retinal res is ~75ppd. So, while its better certainly its not going to be mind blowingly better IMO, but then again I've never looked through one.  Plus maintaining a set for 5 years.  


Edited by Harlikwin

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

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The Varjo VR3 runs better for me at default vs. Vive Pro 2 at 120% Steam SS.

 

The VR3 is at 100% Varjo software, 100% Steam SS, and Speed-of-Heats Basic settings in DCS. The Vive Pro 2 is at Ultra Settings, 120% Steam SS, and Speed-of-Heats settings. At these settings, the Varjo is still far clearer, sharper, and bigger sweetspot that the Pro2. Used a 6mm foam for increased FOV, I didn't measure it, but its comparable to the Valve Index. Like the reviews on Youtube, the first time you look through the headset is just mind blowing.

 

As for the negatives, I'll point out its biggest flaw and that is distortion. In the Varjo software, your homescreen is a room with digital tile floorings. When you tilt your head up and down, the horizontal lines bend according to where your head position is at. If you start looking up, it will curve upwards like a very wide letter "U", as you slowly tilt downwards it will slowly straighten then curve downwards when you get past a certain angle. Mind you, its not an extreme bend, but its noticeable. In DCS, you wont really notice this(well for me), but there will be certain games that will be more noticeable. There is talk that Varjo might create a profile to fix this, we'll see. TBH, I'm not really bothered by the distortion, it's almost a non issue for me.

 

Like the Vive Pro 2, you will need to enable the cross-eyed tool to correct the focus values for the VR3.

 

The other issues for me are the head straps don't quite fit right for me. The forehead strap pushes the headset out in front if I tighten the forehead strap too much. You will need that tight as it suspends the headset and it is quite heavy, not a headset for games that you move around much. 

 

Lastly, there are no speakers. You will need to plug in a set of headphones/earphones or use your PC's default sound.

 

Obviously the cost and subscription are already stated, which is a huge negative. IMHO, if you really are invested in flight or racing sims, it is worth it, but only if. Anyone else less than "hardcore" you might give it a pass. Let me be clear here, when I say hardcore, I mean you demand the best of what technology can give you today. It wont make you a better pilot, someone with a Rift will smoke you and you'll only watch your plane burn in awesome clarity.

 

Every headset I tried before the VR3 was akin to glasses/binoculars with fingerprint smudges in terms of blurriness, some more than others. The VR3 changes that, its like looking through a pair of brand new glasses. I fly the A10C and F-14 and in the cat, you can see how worn the cockpit is. The finger smudges specifically on the UHF radio looks so real I almost want to wipe it down. That's what it adds to your VR experience, it increases the realism.

 

I will gladly answer questions you guys might have with regards to the VR3.

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13 hours ago, L0ngbow said:

The Varjo VR3 runs better for me at default vs. Vive Pro 2 at 120% Steam SS.

 

The VR3 is at 100% Varjo software, 100% Steam SS, and Speed-of-Heats Basic settings in DCS. The Vive Pro 2 is at Ultra Settings, 120% Steam SS, and Speed-of-Heats settings. At these settings, the Varjo is still far clearer, sharper, and bigger sweetspot that the Pro2. Used a 6mm foam for increased FOV, I didn't measure it, but its comparable to the Valve Index. Like the reviews on Youtube, the first time you look through the headset is just mind blowing.

 

As for the negatives, I'll point out its biggest flaw and that is distortion. In the Varjo software, your homescreen is a room with digital tile floorings. When you tilt your head up and down, the horizontal lines bend according to where your head position is at. If you start looking up, it will curve upwards like a very wide letter "U", as you slowly tilt downwards it will slowly straighten then curve downwards when you get past a certain angle. Mind you, its not an extreme bend, but its noticeable. In DCS, you wont really notice this(well for me), but there will be certain games that will be more noticeable. There is talk that Varjo might create a profile to fix this, we'll see. TBH, I'm not really bothered by the distortion, it's almost a non issue for me.

 

Like the Vive Pro 2, you will need to enable the cross-eyed tool to correct the focus values for the VR3.

 

The other issues for me are the head straps don't quite fit right for me. The forehead strap pushes the headset out in front if I tighten the forehead strap too much. You will need that tight as it suspends the headset and it is quite heavy, not a headset for games that you move around much. 

 

Lastly, there are no speakers. You will need to plug in a set of headphones/earphones or use your PC's default sound.

 

Obviously the cost and subscription are already stated, which is a huge negative. IMHO, if you really are invested in flight or racing sims, it is worth it, but only if. Anyone else less than "hardcore" you might give it a pass. Let me be clear here, when I say hardcore, I mean you demand the best of what technology can give you today. It wont make you a better pilot, someone with a Rift will smoke you and you'll only watch your plane burn in awesome clarity.

 

Every headset I tried before the VR3 was akin to glasses/binoculars with fingerprint smudges in terms of blurriness, some more than others. The VR3 changes that, its like looking through a pair of brand new glasses. I fly the A10C and F-14 and in the cat, you can see how worn the cockpit is. The finger smudges specifically on the UHF radio looks so real I almost want to wipe it down. That's what it adds to your VR experience, it increases the realism.

 

I will gladly answer questions you guys might have with regards to the VR3.

 

In how many years will it be obsolete compared to a 1k headset?

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

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1 minute ago, Harlikwin said:

 

In how many years will it be obsolete compared to a 1k headset?

Although we wont really know, I'd like to think the VR3 will still be relevant in at least 2 years. I'd wager you won't be itching for an upgrade till then.

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12 minutes ago, L0ngbow said:

Although we wont really know, I'd like to think the VR3 will still be relevant in at least 2 years. I'd wager you won't be itching for an upgrade till then.

 

How bout 5? 

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

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ALIENWARE R11 - I9 10900KF @ 4.8-4.9 GHz OC Disabled - M.2 NVMe 2TB - RTX3090 NV Driver 496.13 OC Disabled - XFURY 64GB -3400 MHz RAM

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Hopefully a consumer product will be available that comes close. I just don’t get the subscription part. 

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ALIENWARE R11 - I9 10900KF @ 4.8-4.9 GHz OC Disabled - M.2 NVMe 2TB - RTX3090 NV Driver 496.13 OC Disabled - XFURY 64GB -3400 MHz RAM

Monitor AW3420DW @ 120Hz - TM Warthog Hotas & TPR Rudder pedals - Monstertech Deck Mounts - TrackerIR w/ProClip -HP G2 - Tacview/Disabled

RealSimulator FSSB-R3 Lightning Base - F16SRGRH Stick - Open Beta 2.7

Start Date April 2020 - Callsign  " M a k o "

 

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4 hours ago, Burt said:

Hopefully a consumer product will be available that comes close. I just don’t get the subscription part. 

 

Their technology is unique doing dual rendering. I Don't expect consumer products to be able to do this any time soon. 

 

Performance wise, the G2 is probably near 30ppd in terms of res and the Varjo is likely about double as good in the very center ~70 ish which is "Retinal" res. And then less peripherally. 

 

I'm sure the subscription is basically for top tier tech support which is what a business would expect. 

 

IMO the G2 reverb is pretty good for what it is and at a very good price point for simmers. The issue with VR is DCS itself not any headset. If I could for example run DCS on max settings (i.e. high AA settings) in VR with solid 90fps+ then it would be more than good enough. But I can't even with 5ghz proc and 3090. 

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New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

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I can't imagine being able to run DCS at those high image settings in the Varjo without it being a total slide show.

Specs are one thing, actual use in our sims is quite another. And that is where the rubber meets the road so to speak.

There is no magic bullet here. I would love to run my newer Vive Pro 2 at it's full resolution in DCS - but it ain't gonna happen on today's hardware.

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2 minutes ago, dburne said:

I can't imagine being able to run DCS at those high image settings in the Varjo without it being a total slide show.

Specs are one thing, actual use in our sims is quite another. And that is where the rubber meets the road so to speak.

There is no magic bullet here. I would love to run my newer Vive Pro 2 at it's full resolution in DCS - but it ain't gonna happen on today's hardware.

 

From what I've heard its comparable to something like a G2 performance wise. Remember you are only rendering a very small FOV in high res. 

 

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

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4 hours ago, dburne said:

I can't imagine being able to run DCS at those high image settings in the Varjo without it being a total slide show.

Specs are one thing, actual use in our sims is quite another. And that is where the rubber meets the road so to speak.

There is no magic bullet here. I would love to run my newer Vive Pro 2 at it's full resolution in DCS - but it ain't gonna happen on today's hardware.

I think our hardware may be better than we expect. I’m super hopeful for multi-core and vulkan, as I suspect VR will get a pretty serious boost. But, i’m not holding my breath for their deployments. I’m also hopeful the Varjo technology prices drop over the next few years with adoption across multiple brands. I’ve been day dreaming about flying the AH-64 over Mariana’s at great fidelity with this headset, and a ton of AI action due to the multi-core. Time will tell!

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I run the Varjo software at default 100% and Steam at 100%, the resolution ends up at around 2800x2700. My fps is around 70 with Speed-of-Heat's settings with FSR mod. I can honestly say its very smooth. At those settings, its way above the Vive Pro 2 in clarity and sharpness. It doesn't even activate the focus screen at that res. I increased it to around 6000x6000 just for shits and giggles and it activated the focus display. It was a whole new level of clarity. I feel that even a 4090 won't max this headset out just yet. Is good that even at low res, you still get the best in class clarity at the moment and good fps to boot. And with better hardware, it can get even better.

 

As for the subscription, I think its their way of "subsidizing" the cost. There is so much tech crammed into it like Ultraleap hand tracking, auto IPD adjustment, focus displays, and aspheric lens. And yes, support is very good.

 

I finally measured the FOV with a thin foam and was able to get 100 degrees horizontal and 80 degrees vertical. It seems a bit low compared to the other headsets but the sweet spot is almost 90% of the lens. 

 

In any case, I do agree the cost is high.  Hence I can only recommend if you're really into sims if buying only for gaming.

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VR being such an extremely subjective experience in regards to pretty much every specification of the HMD, i.e. the IPD, the face fitment, the weight, the sweet spot, etc, etc, coupled with the appropriate PC hardware (cpu, memory, graphics) venturing in to such an expensive HMD simply is very risky.

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