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Questions about the next major update and the ea situation.


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5 hours ago, TOViper said:

meanwhile a humble list arrived on my desk, which shows some bugs on the long list beeing eliminated.

Where is this list? I don't see any patch notes posted to the DCS website yet.  Is there an external site, or did you receive a PM?

"Subsonic is below Mach 1, supersonic is up to Mach 5. Above Mach 5 is hypersonic. And reentry from space, well, that's like Mach a lot."

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7 hours ago, TLTeo said:

Uh, could you elaborate on this? Have there been bug fixes not included in the change logs? Which bugs are gone?

For all bugs I noticed I created forum threads, this happend during the last 4 years.

From time to time I take a minute, do some test flights, and see if my threads still apply or not (I have a personal list).

At a certain point in time this became exhausting due to the slow progress.

 

But after reviewing some threads yesterday, testing a little bit and then talking to a friend who is also flying the Viggen a lot (he is knowing about all my topics) I came to the conclusion that HB is working on bug fixes, which is VERY good. The point was for me, that HB doesn't necessarily fill in the update log, for whatever reason. I just have to go back to my threads and do a little "fixed, thanks" at the end if the thread can be closed if I find a minute on the weekend.

For a few I already did, but a few are still missing on this.

But don't ask me why I am doing this ... I think it is because I love this module so much and I want it beeing more or less bug free 😄

 

During flying in the last weeks I noticed some little fixes here and there, but yesterday I was in the mood to write that I am not happy with the tempo.

This is still true for today, but on the other hand I am glad they do!

 

Just to clear this up a bit ....

 


Edited by TOViper
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On 9/9/2021 at 9:10 AM, Machalot said:

Again, this is really an EBSAS, Error Between Stick and Seat.  Any Viggen pilot who pulls the nose that high has something wrong with his software upstairs.

game crashes can NEVER be user errors.


Edited by dorianR666
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2 hours ago, dorianR666 said:

game crashes can NEVER be user errors.

 

Since more than one person reacted to your vehement statement with a "thank you"  apparently it is not obvious that my comment was a joke. It was a play on EBKAC.

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"Subsonic is below Mach 1, supersonic is up to Mach 5. Above Mach 5 is hypersonic. And reentry from space, well, that's like Mach a lot."

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And Cobra,.....for that tentative big mid November update, would you please be so kind and give this long standing issue about the previously seperate Viggen Red Flag DLC campaign, now completely redundant as it has become part of the actual module another push?

 

Reported here:

 

On every DCS launch i get this red ribbon reminder to install this dlc campaign...which is obviously already part of the actual module.

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11 hours ago, sc_neo said:

Apparently the separate DLC Red Flag campaign has finally been removed from DCS....much appreciated, thanks!

 

Yeah but now those who bought it are getting pop ups at startup asking for a valid serial number for the campaign... d'oh!

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On 9/14/2021 at 9:15 PM, Bagpipe said:

Yeah but now those who bought it are getting pop ups at startup asking for a valid serial number for the campaign... d'oh!

I simple removed this module using the module manager, no pop-up appeared again.

 

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my PC: CSL | i7 6700 @ 4.4 GHz | NVIDIA GTX 1080 Ti OC 11GB | 40 GB 3000 MHz DDR4 | 256 GB SDD SYS + 500 GB SSD DCS + 1 TB HDD | Win10 Pro

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54 minutes ago, TOViper said:

I simple removed this module using the module manager, no pop-up appeared again.

 

I suppose that's one way of getting rid of the pop-ups LOL 🤦‍♂️

 

I still want my credit note though! All $5 worth


Edited by Bagpipe
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8 hours ago, Bagpipe said:

I suppose that's one way of getting rid of the pop-ups LOL 🤦‍♂️

 

The next open beta update will remove it for you, and you won't see this popup ever again. Update is planed for tomorrow.


Edited by Flappie
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A track or it didn't happen.

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55 minutes ago, TLTeo said:

They literally stated in this very thread that major stuff will come in November. Hold your pitchforks until then at least.

I know what Cobra wrote , I followed this thread closely , I’m not even talking about major texture or sound overhauls or features, it would be just simply be awesome if the Viggen at least got a decent amount of fixing of the many existing bugs in each update, similar to the Tomcat.

Look at change log, the ratio is like 5:1 if you eyeball it and this seems to me to be the standard for many of the updates in the past months, not to say year.

 

Anyway I’m looking what the november update brings but excuse me if I remain pessimistic about this, especially with the big Tomcat / Forrestal update happening just one month before with the potential for lots of additional fixing afterwards..


Edited by Snappy
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Sure, all I'm saying is that if they really are pushing major stuff to November, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. If that major push is seriously delayed and/or the Tomcat clearly keeps receiving more attention I will be just as annoyed as you all though.

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21 hours ago, TLTeo said:

Sure, all I'm saying is that if they really are pushing major stuff to November, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. If that major push is seriously delayed and/or the Tomcat clearly keeps receiving more attention I will be just as annoyed as you all though.

 

Same

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DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

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On 9/17/2021 at 6:52 PM, Snappy said:

 

I know what Cobra wrote , I followed this thread closely , I’m not even talking about major texture or sound overhauls or features, it would be just simply be awesome if the Viggen at least got a decent amount of fixing of the many existing bugs in each update, similar to the Tomcat.

Look at change log, the ratio is like 5:1 if you eyeball it and this seems to me to be the standard for many of the updates in the past months, not to say year.

 

Anyway I’m looking what the november update brings but excuse me if I remain pessimistic about this, especially with the big Tomcat / Forrestal update happening just one month before with the potential for lots of additional fixing afterwards..

 

We don't know how much time and effort each item on a changelog takes the team. The tomcat, i should imagine, has a larger number of devs working on it too so there's that but I am fairly certain if you were to get a look in to HB's financial summary you would see why lol.

 

Give it time, we've got used to waiting after all, what's another month or two

 

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I would just like to add a little something: we're currently working on restructuring how we approach coding in our modules in general (as well as restructuring and expanding the entire team), so that in the future modules are not coded one module ABCD and the next module DCBA and the third module CBDA, but rather all receive the same structure, the same fundament, the same order, etc etc... This will long term help to a) refit older modules with newer technologies easier, b) maintain them easier and c) develop new modules faster. Ultimately also the Viggen will benefit from it. This is a tremendous effort in parts, and unfortunately nothing that is being reflected in the changelogs. How quickly and how much in the end it will benefit, is hard to say at this point, but I sure hope lots and rather sooner than late.

The harsh reality is that we have limited ressources, so newer modules get more principal attention than older modules. And making and selling a new module does not always equal the ability of growth, often it just means: we can keep going. This is something Cobra has been working hard towards to restructure so that in the future older modules will be less affected by this. It is not an easy task at all, there are just limits, mainly in what time and ressources allow us to do. This doesn't mean that we willfully neglect you guys, your reports and your concerns. To the contrary. It makes no difference to us what module's customer you are for us, we value all customers equally. But we have to find ways and means to address such problems, long term rather than short term. The key word of course being sustainability. Please be so kind and keep that in mind. We do this precisely, because we do not want to let you standing at the side of the road, while we steam ahead. 

With forum interaction alone, I can tell you: sometimes it is too much for me to cope with the Viggen forums, the Tomcat forums, facebook, etc, despite me having promised that I will be more active here. But I end up skimming over the threads at the end of the day to be completely honest, after already having taken this and that much time on the Tomcat forum, or elsewhere, etc. Hence I would kindly like to ask you something: please ping/ notify me, if there is something you want to bring to our attention rather sooner than later. This would help me a lot and would let me re-prioritize quicker and give you more of the attention you all deserve.

Thank you all for being so tremendously patient with us. We hope we can ultimately live up to your expectations, it is of utmost importance to the entire team! 

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Heatblur Simulations

 

Please feel free to contact me anytime, either via PM here, on the forums, or via email through the contact form on our homepage.

 

http://www.heatblur.com/

 

https://www.facebook.com/heatblur/

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1 hour ago, IronMike said:

The harsh reality is that we have limited ressources, so newer modules get more principal attention than older modules.

 

This is totally understandable at some point, but if a module is still in Early Access and full of bugs, then this point has not come imho. If ressources are not enough to get a module beyond this point in development, then there is something really going wrong.

 

You guys at HB are known for going additional steps to bring features into DCS that other devs and sometimes even ED wouldn't do (e.g. the roadbase feature for the Viggen), but sometimes I have to think if this isn't too much for such small dev teams, especiall if those features are supposed to be supported in the long run. Maybe it would be better to focus on core features and making sure the aircraft is working correctly in its basic functionality before coming up with such fancy additional features. Don't get me wrong. I appreciate such features, but not at the expense of core functionality and if ressources are thin, then it might not be a good approach adding such extra features without having a solid core module. Just my 2 Cents.


Edited by QuiGon
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Intel i7-4790K @ 4x4GHz + 16 GB DDR3 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

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20 minutes ago, QuiGon said:

 

This is totally understandable at some point, but if a module is still in Early Access and full of bugs, then this point has not come imho. If ressources are not enough to get a module beyond this point in development, then there is something really going wrong.

 

You guys at ED are known for going additional steps to bring features into DCS that other devs and sometimes even ED wouldn't do (e.g. the roadbase feature for the Viggen), but sometimes I have to think if this isn't too much for such small dev teams, especiall if those features are supposed to be supported in the long run. Maybe it would be better to focus on core features and making sure the aircraft is working correctly in its basic functionality before coming up with such fancy additional features. Don't get me wrong. I appreciate such features, but not at the expense of core functionality and if ressources are thin, then it might not be a good approach adding such extra features without having a solid core module. Just my 2 Cents.

 

Guys at ED or guys at HB?

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3 minutes ago, Gierasimov said:

Guys at ED or guys at HB?

 

I meant to say HB of course :doh:

I corrected it, thanks!


Edited by QuiGon
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Intel i7-4790K @ 4x4GHz + 16 GB DDR3 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

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4 hours ago, IronMike said:

I would just like to add a little something: we're currently working on restructuring how we approach coding in our modules in general (as well as restructuring and expanding the entire team), so that in the future modules are not coded one module ABCD and the next module DCBA and the third module CBDA, but rather all receive the same structure, the same fundament, the same order, etc etc... This will long term help to a) refit older modules with newer technologies easier, b) maintain them easier and c) develop new modules faster. Ultimately also the Viggen will benefit from it. This is a tremendous effort in parts, and unfortunately nothing that is being reflected in the changelogs. How quickly and how much in the end it will benefit, is hard to say at this point, but I sure hope lots and rather sooner than late.

The harsh reality is that we have limited ressources, so newer modules get more principal attention than older modules. And making and selling a new module does not always equal the ability of growth, often it just means: we can keep going. This is something Cobra has been working hard towards to restructure so that in the future older modules will be less affected by this. It is not an easy task at all, there are just limits, mainly in what time and ressources allow us to do. This doesn't mean that we willfully neglect you guys, your reports and your concerns. To the contrary. It makes no difference to us what module's customer you are for us, we value all customers equally. But we have to find ways and means to address such problems, long term rather than short term. The key word of course being sustainability. Please be so kind and keep that in mind. We do this precisely, because we do not want to let you standing at the side of the road, while we steam ahead. 

With forum interaction alone, I can tell you: sometimes it is too much for me to cope with the Viggen forums, the Tomcat forums, facebook, etc, despite me having promised that I will be more active here. But I end up skimming over the threads at the end of the day to be completely honest, after already having taken this and that much time on the Tomcat forum, or elsewhere, etc. Hence I would kindly like to ask you something: please ping/ notify me, if there is something you want to bring to our attention rather sooner than later. This would help me a lot and would let me re-prioritize quicker and give you more of the attention you all deserve.

Thank you all for being so tremendously patient with us. We hope we can ultimately live up to your expectations, it is of utmost importance to the entire team! 


well in part you have my understanding for the resource realities , but at the same time I find this very disappointing, especially the part that heatblur is basically really unable to keep even a basic developer presence in the Viggen forums.

And honestly, while I appreciate you trying to keep at least a low level track of things, PMing you is in my opinion a less than ideal solution, especially since I remember from a few threads related to this in the tomcat forums, that you can’t keep up with your inbox and stuff gets lost in there as well.( No criticism meant here to you in this regard, I can only imagine the number of PMs you get each day)


I definitely agree with QuiGon , as of now I really  don’t see the Viggen at a point where it entered a sort of maintenance mode and can get less attention as an older module and constantly draw the short straw in regards to updates.

In fact on the contrary , the near constant lack of decent-sized bug fixing has now led to the point where many bugs, some of them have piled up, in the Viggen , plus tons of unanswered reports in the forums. So instead of basic occasional maintenance it actually needs a lot of concentrated bug fixing.

 


regards,

 

Snappy

 


 


Edited by Snappy
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Hello Mike!

 

Thanks for your longer answer!

 

Regarding the first section of your writing: I agree what you and your team are working on, making the modules more internally compatible. That's what I would try as well.

 

In the meantime, you should have gotten to know us a bit. We ARE patient, cause we all know about the work necessary for creating such a wonderful piece of software.

But at least you have to talk to us!

What about just informing us a little bit from time to time (in a pro-active way) about what's happening in the background on the Viggen for us "long time Viggen drivers" ... 😉

As the "salt in the soup", this group of enthusiasts on the other side of the production line helped you so much in making this module much more interesting than many other modules around. By simply looking back to 2017 when the Viggen arrived ... you led the way, BY FAR!

Now, back in nearly 2022 (!) it's time for your part, by getting rid of ... let me phrase in that way "a few more bugs" :biggrin: , and bringing the beast to a state which would deserve the title "out of early-access". Don't let this happen: "Much good work is lost due to lack of a little more".

 

Please don't overstress our patience and don't play with the long time trust we - still - have in you.

We - the biggest Viggen flight sim community - don't deserve that treatment.

We rant from time to time, yes, but we were helping many years in making this thing so valuable.

 

Regarding the second section I don't have any great comments.

 

Regarding the third section:

I was calling for help sometimes via the forum by using the "@ Username", but to speak in a positive way ... not always I got response :closedeyes:

 

Viggen is love.

Period.

 

P.S.: Let's to a little test ... @IronMike : I have forgotton to ask: What can we do to help you to help us to help you?


Edited by TOViper
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my channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_Yx920L1ezoWQkYKCGYB9w

my PC: CSL | i7 6700 @ 4.4 GHz | NVIDIA GTX 1080 Ti OC 11GB | 40 GB 3000 MHz DDR4 | 256 GB SDD SYS + 500 GB SSD DCS + 1 TB HDD | Win10 Pro

my controls: A-10 Warthog Stick + Throttle | Rift CV1 | ViaComPro

my mods: FC3 | AJS-37 | F-14 | F-16C | F/A-18 | F-5E-3 | L-39 | (HAWK) | MiG-21 | UH-1 | Mi-8 | Mi-24 | Combined Arms | Nevada | Syria | Persian Gulf

 

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