not planned Would You Be Interested in a DCS Subscription Service for Bonus Content?

[Dragon1-1]

Yeah, no subscriptions please. It's a horrible business model that nobody wants. Kudos for ED for saying no to it. The poll says it all, I think. Individual purchases are where it's at, if you want to support ED, buy the merch or gift an expensive module to someone less fortunate.

[StevanJ]

3 hours ago, Callsign112 said:

Everyone clicking NO is actively involved in helping grow the game with each purchase they make. Your opinion that unless someone wants to make monthly donations, they aren't supporting ED grow DCS World is just that... an opinion.

 

What I find ironic is that as someone who claims the Asset pack is fragmenting the community because it has a sale price, you are proposing that people donate money to simply get recognition as a "FAN"! How does dividing the community into those willing to pay for recognition, and those that aren't improve anything? I would quite simply just prefer to pay for the modules I want to use. And that would include the WWII assets pack, especially if it helped improve my multi-player gaming experience.

 

I didn't come to DCS to get recognition as a fan, I came to enjoy the experience of using very detailed and highly realistic models in a digital combat simulator.  

Yes, thats the point.

Its a hypothetical suggestion poll. Im not selling the idea, im seeing if poeple are interested.. Just click no and stop arguing..
Im unbiased to the idea.

Please Stop with the bickering.
 

2 hours ago, HC_Official said:

ah that time of the month again when this lame idea is put forth again

 

If you want to support DCS / Eagle Dynamics, there is nothing stopping you OP  from buying extra modules and giving them away to others

Hmm, you mean like where we sent this message to you, where we were offering free modules away?

https://imgur.com/a/HG6oa6A


 

3 hours ago, Tippis said:

It's also worth nothing that, as I was hinting in my response above, clicking NO in this poll doesn't necessarily mean you're opposed to a subscription model. It's just that the options provided are… lacking, let's call it, and they're also marred by how the suggestion itself is phrased to make it block out all kinds of potential support votes.

 

It's not just that the OP's opinion is just an opinion, it's that his opinion hinges on a rather silly assumption that is reflected in the poll itself, which ends up doing something pretty rare: it makes the opinion objectively wrong.

Yeah, I wanted to keep things simple.

Its just a hypothetical poll, If people have ideas, they can put them forward and discuss them.
If someone has a more questionable poll they can make it on their own.
For this discussion, im just watching.

[HC_Official]

2 minutes ago, StevanJ said:

Hmm, you mean like where we sent this message to you, where we were offering free modules away?

https://imgur.com/a/HG6oa6A


 

 

Yes, thats the idea buy DCS modules and give them away

[StevanJ]

Just now, HC_Official said:

 

Yes, thats the idea buy DCS modules and give them away

Out of curiosity..
Why didnt you enter and gift away the prize?

[HC_Official]

Dunno, was 9 months ago, canny remember what I did 9 days ago

[StevanJ]

Just now, HC_Official said:

Dunno, was 9 months ago, canny remember what I did 9 days ago

You need a diary.. Had youd taken me up on hosting the mission I suggested to you, id have subsidised your server costs and your Havoc server too..

[HC_Official]

Aww shucks

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

On 9/3/2021 at 2:10 AM, StevanJ said:

 

 

 

Everyone that’s clicking ‘yes’ is a customer that actively wants to help grow the game.

And the percentage is the revenue that ED is missing out in each month.

While this poll is purely hypothetical, it’s interesting to see people put their money where there mouth is when they say they ‘want to support DCS’..

 

Grow into what, though? There's no way DCS would ever match more casual and immediately approachable experiences like Warthunder.

Furthermore, what does a subscription model do to benefit me, someone who owns most of ED's content, already?
Exclusive skins? We already have a community of brilliant skinners.
Forum flair? I got my drumstick.

I've already paid for a number of modules and paying more on top to 'accelerate' their development is quite obscene. And, given the disparity in answers, the revenue reaped from such a subscription would be negligible to the point of it being an actual waste of time and resources to set up.

And why should I 'put my money where my mouth is' when it comes to supporting a company? I've already paid hundreds of dollars. This isn't a faith, this isn't a club, this is a company offering a service. My loyalty doesn't enter into it, at all. 

We're in a niche there's no real way out of without the whims and tastes of consumers changing.

Edited September 5, 2021 by MiG21bisFishbedL

[statrekmike]

On 9/3/2021 at 3:10 AM, StevanJ said:

 

For what?

 

Peoples opinion changes.

Fresh data is good for everyone.

 

Everyone that’s clicking ‘yes’ is a customer that actively wants to help grow the game.

And the percentage is the revenue that ED is missing out in each month.

While this poll is purely hypothetical, it’s interesting to see people put their money where there mouth is when they say they ‘want to support DCS’..

 

 

  Anyone who clicks "buy" is helping DCS grow. It really is that simple. If I buy a module, I am supporting not only the future development of that module but also DCS as a whole. The same can be said for maps and any asset packs that might come along. A good number of us on this forum have probably bought just about everything and many of those same people are going to be opposed to a subscription service, are they not helping DCS grow? If not, how exactly? 

 

  To be fair, I am not opposed to the idea of a subscription service for DCS but only if it sits alongside the existing purchasing/ED miles system and doesn't replace it. I have no interest in DCS as a subscription service and would want to continue to just buy modules and content outright. I don't begrudge those who might feel differently but going 100% to a subscription service would be a mistake and would not do ED nearly as many favors as you think it will.

[Tippis]

On 9/3/2021 at 9:10 AM, StevanJ said:

Everyone that’s clicking ‘yes’ is a customer that actively wants to help grow the game.

That's also true for everyone clicking ‘no’.

This is what makes your poll wholly devoid of any value or usefulness.

 

On 9/3/2021 at 9:10 AM, StevanJ said:

While this poll is purely hypothetical, it’s interesting to see people put their money where there mouth is when they say they ‘want to support DCS’..

Yes, let's see…

 

There are currently 49 entries on the E-Shop > Modules page.

3 of them (A-10C, BS2 Upgrade, Hawk) are listed, but not actually available for sale.

6 of them (A-10A, F-15C, MiG-29, Su-25, Su-27, Su-33) overlap with a single group purchase.

5 of them (the C-101CC, C-101EB, L-39, Mi-8, SA3242 integrations of NS430) serve no purpose because the base module doesn't work.

That's 35 or 40 in total, depending on your tolerance for non-functional jank.

On top of that, there are 5 terrain modules.

And there are a myriad of campaign modules.

 

So what does my unsupportive, not-yes-voting, horribly miserly license list (available to anyone at https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/personal/licensing/licenses/ if they want to review their position) say?

Oh.

I am sure this is a pitiful number compared to the boundless benevolence of the truly supportive customers wanting to help grow the game.

 

If you ask nicely, I'll give you the addresses to the two servers I'm hosting on my server and bandwidth as well. And the community wiki I've set up for the people who play on those servers. Just be aware: part of asking nicely will be to stop relying on some deeply flawed assumptions you're holding as true at the moment.

[StevanJ]

18 hours ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

Grow into what, though? There's no way DCS would ever match more casual and immediately approachable experiences like Warthunder.

Furthermore, what does a subscription model do to benefit me, someone who owns most of ED's content, already?
Exclusive skins? We already have a community of brilliant skinners.
Forum flair? I got my drumstick.

I've already paid for a number of modules and paying more on top to 'accelerate' their development is quite obscene. And, given the disparity in answers, the revenue reaped from such a subscription would be negligible to the point of it being an actual waste of time and resources to set up.

And why should I 'put my money where my mouth is' when it comes to supporting a company? I've already paid hundreds of dollars. This isn't a faith, this isn't a club, this is a company offering a service. My loyalty doesn't enter into it, at all. 

We're in a niche there's no real way out of without the whims and tastes of consumers changing.

 

Yeah i see that point, Although- I do believe the modern game is kinda nearly there- With only bugs holding it back.

Well thats up to you, You dont have to. You can carry on as you are and not worry about the fee.

So youre happy with what you have?

Bare in mind, im unbiased to the idea, and im interested in what you think, im not trying to test you or push buttons.

 

[StevanJ]

17 hours ago, statrekmike said:

 

  Anyone who clicks "buy" is helping DCS grow. It really is that simple. If I buy a module, I am supporting not only the future development of that module but also DCS as a whole. The same can be said for maps and any asset packs that might come along. A good number of us on this forum have probably bought just about everything and many of those same people are going to be opposed to a subscription service, are they not helping DCS grow? If not, how exactly? 

 

  To be fair, I am not opposed to the idea of a subscription service for DCS but only if it sits alongside the existing purchasing/ED miles system and doesn't replace it. I have no interest in DCS as a subscription service and would want to continue to just buy modules and content outright. I don't begrudge those who might feel differently but going 100% to a subscription service would be a mistake and would not do ED nearly as many favors as you think it will.
 

Yes, i agree too.

Yeah, I look at the idea as like 'buying a magazine' with free stuff. Im not really bothered if i get anything of value, but im interested in progress, and id be interested to see if it might shift ED into a major contender and push development heavily from the insource of cash, kind of like how EA went when they started EA Access (Before EA Play).
Originally i hated the idea, but in hindsight, it was a great move.
My nephew just bought into every game EA have on the Play subscription, and it only cost him £20 for the year.
I cant argue with that.
I guess im trying to figure out why people wouldnt want access to stuff at a small cost.
It doesnt bother me if they do, or they dont.
 

Edited September 6, 2021 by StevanJ

[StevanJ]

16 hours ago, Tippis said:

That's also true for everyone clicking ‘no’.

This is what makes your poll wholly devoid of any value or usefulness.

 

Yes, let's see…

 

There are currently 49 entries on the E-Shop > Modules page.

3 of them (A-10C, BS2 Upgrade, Hawk) are listed, but not actually available for sale.

6 of them (A-10A, F-15C, MiG-29, Su-25, Su-27, Su-33) overlap with a single group purchase.

5 of them (the C-101CC, C-101EB, L-39, Mi-8, SA3242 integrations of NS430) serve no purpose because the base module doesn't work.

That's 35 or 40 in total, depending on your tolerance for non-functional jank.

On top of that, there are 5 terrain modules.

And there are a myriad of campaign modules.

 

So what does my unsupportive, not-yes-voting, horribly miserly license list (available to anyone at https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/personal/licensing/licenses/ if they want to review their position) say?

Oh.

I am sure this is a pitiful number compared to the boundless benevolence of the truly supportive customers wanting to help grow the game.

 

If you ask nicely, I'll give you the addresses to the two servers I'm hosting on my server and bandwidth as well. And the community wiki I've set up for the people who play on those servers. Just be aware: part of asking nicely will be to stop relying on some deeply flawed assumptions you're holding as true at the moment.

I really love this point of view, Youre right, and the truth is, everyone in the Poll is contributing in one way or another- It doesnt matter what you pick.
I didnt want a Poll that was biased to any one subject, and so i left it vague in the interest that some people would share their views.

I think alot of people want something or another from the game, i see the benefits of why a monthly subscription service might be enjoyed. But i can understand why people might not want that.

But until users like yourself explain how they feel, we just wont really have that much insight in towards a real poll with understanding and well thought out answers.

[Mars Exulte]

3 hours ago, StevanJ said:

But until users like yourself explain how they feel, we just wont really have that much insight in towards a real poll with understanding and well thought out answers.

 

  

  A community run poll is patently irrelevant anyway. We're not setting policy, and ED already made it clear in the 900 threads vefore yours suggesting the same thing that they don't want to use a subscription model. So, there's no incentive (or point) for anybody to clearly articulate their myriad thoughts, viewpoints, and suggestions. Especially since they would likely already have done so in one of those 900 threads before yours.

 

  I said ''search'' facetiously, but seriously, use search. You can read the previous conversations until your eyes bleed. Nothing significant has changed in the last 6-10 days since it was last discussed.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

4 hours ago, StevanJ said:

Yeah i see that point, Although- I do believe the modern game is kinda nearly there- With only bugs holding it back.

Well thats up to you, You dont have to. You can carry on as you are and not worry about the fee.

So youre happy with what you have?

Bare in mind, im unbiased to the idea, and im interested in what you think, im not trying to test you or push buttons.

 

In terms of fidelity? Oh it's there. There's no denying that. But, I'd really doubt DCS could hold much charm for those who aren't already amped up for a flight sim, especially a study sim. It certainly beats the grind inherent to other F2P options, but I'd still expect this niche to grow at a very slow and steady pace. That's not always a bad thing; less grifters, less volatility in the community come to mind.

But, consider this: the profit breakdown for third parties.

We have 13 released items of 3rd party content. We have 8 on the way. How does ED manage a monthly fee to include these third parties? Do they even include them? That could be a recipe for just punch out new modules in the same condition as the Viper was at launch. How do you accomplish an ethical breakdown of what would be a pretty menial monthly income to benefit all parties appropriately?

There was a time when a subscription could have worked for DCS. But, that time was back in 2012 before we got the influx of content we have now. I think it's just a case of that ship having set sail. That said, I'd be curious to hear if ED has any contractual restrictions for third party devs that prevent them from using something like Patreon to help pay somebills and offset that time spent.
 

[Callsign112]

6 hours ago, StevanJ said:

... I guess im trying to figure out why people wouldnt want access to stuff at a small cost.
It doesnt bother me if they do, or they dont.
 

 

Part of the problem might be your understanding of the business model. You are comparing EA, which has games on console, pc, and mobile to DCS World. The subscription service EA offers is only a part of their total revenue in any given year. It doesn't really fit as a comparison here. Depending on how you define "small cost", you might be surprised what ED would have to charge for a subscription service.

[upyr1]

6 hours ago, StevanJ said:

Yes, i agree too.

Yeah, I look at the idea as like 'buying a magazine' with free stuff. Im not really bothered if i get anything of value, but im interested in progress, and id be interested to see if it might shift ED into a major contender and push development heavily from the insource of cash, kind of like how EA went when they started EA Access (Before EA Play).
Originally i hated the idea, but in hindsight, it was a great move.
My nephew just bought into every game EA have on the Play subscription, and it only cost him £20 for the year.
I cant argue with that.
I guess im trying to figure out why people wouldnt want access to stuff at a small cost.
It doesnt bother me if they do, or they dont.
 

 

One issue is what is being provided.  The people who have been here for a while really don't want bonus content  I know a lot of people don't want asset packs. As they think it would make on line games harder. 

[StevanJ]

8 hours ago, Mars Exulte said:

 

  

  A community run poll is patently irrelevant anyway. We're not setting policy, and ED already made it clear in the 900 threads vefore yours suggesting the same thing that they don't want to use a subscription model. So, there's no incentive (or point) for anybody to clearly articulate their myriad thoughts, viewpoints, and suggestions. Especially since they would likely already have done so in one of those 900 threads before yours.

 

  I said ''search'' facetiously, but seriously, use search. You can read the previous conversations until your eyes bleed. Nothing significant has changed in the last 6-10 days since it was last discussed.

I get where youre coming from. Thanks
 

8 hours ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

In terms of fidelity? Oh it's there. There's no denying that. But, I'd really doubt DCS could hold much charm for those who aren't already amped up for a flight sim, especially a study sim. It certainly beats the grind inherent to other F2P options, but I'd still expect this niche to grow at a very slow and steady pace. That's not always a bad thing; less grifters, less volatility in the community come to mind.

But, consider this: the profit breakdown for third parties.

We have 13 released items of 3rd party content. We have 8 on the way. How does ED manage a monthly fee to include these third parties? Do they even include them? That could be a recipe for just punch out new modules in the same condition as the Viper was at launch. How do you accomplish an ethical breakdown of what would be a pretty menial monthly income to benefit all parties appropriately?

There was a time when a subscription could have worked for DCS. But, that time was back in 2012 before we got the influx of content we have now. I think it's just a case of that ship having set sail. That said, I'd be curious to hear if ED has any contractual restrictions for third party devs that prevent them from using something like Patreon to help pay somebills and offset that time spent.
 

Yeah maybe, I dont think its too late. Changes can still happen.
ED could easily buy out the third parties if it wanted to.
But i get where youre coming from.
 

5 hours ago, Callsign112 said:

Part of the problem might be your understanding of the business model. You are comparing EA, which has games on console, pc, and mobile to DCS World. The subscription service EA offers is only a part of their total revenue in any given year. It doesn't really fit as a comparison here. Depending on how you define "small cost", you might be surprised what ED would have to charge for a subscription service.

Yes, it does. You dont make a strong argument, but im unbiased so your opinion is welcome.
 

5 hours ago, upyr1 said:

One issue is what is being provided.  The people who have been here for a while really don't want bonus content  I know a lot of people don't want asset packs. As they think it would make on line games harder. 

Well, thats a different story all together.
Like I said, its about personal opinion.

[Kazansky222]

I would be fine with a subscription as long as that money was earmarked for only dcs core improvements.

[Eugel]

I voted for no, and here is why:

It´s not that I´m not willing to pay ED for their good work - I am.

It´s because with subscriptions, I always feel some kind of pressure of "having to play" and that takes away the fun for me.

I don´t want that.

[IronStar95]

NO ! Offering bonuses in return for a subscription is the best way to go to "pay to win" game...

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

On 9/7/2021 at 1:01 AM, StevanJ said:

ED could easily buy out the third parties if it wanted to.

That's a bit of a stretch, I think. Sure, some of the smaller operations like Mag3 might be able to be bought out.

But Heatblur and Razbam? Not so sure.

[pete_auau]

Poll has  spoken  88%   say no  to the idea , enuf  said already

[AbuMuqawama]

I find the idea horrifying. It's a hard no from me.

[StevanJ]

On 9/17/2021 at 6:40 AM, pete_auau said:

Poll has  spoken  88%   say no  to the idea , enuf  said already

Well, looking at the poll at least we know that ED is losing a 15% stream of revenue every month.
Thats 15% that you personally wouldnt need to even worry about.

On 9/17/2021 at 6:05 AM, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

That's a bit of a stretch, I think. Sure, some of the smaller operations like Mag3 might be able to be bought out.

But Heatblur and Razbam? Not so sure.

With the monthly revenue, being brought in they could offer both teams full time jobs.
No more part time working on modules..