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Can SAMs destroy SLAMs?


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Tried to attack SA-10s with a SLAM but it didn’t work. No track from MP so I can’t tell why. Can the SAMs destroy these like they can the JSOWs?

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So much for that idea… back to trying HARMs

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2 hours ago, =475FG= Dawger said:

Teamwork is the key, preferably with a 4 ship coordinating targets and timing the launches

Trouble is that most time there aren’t enough players online to do something like that. And it seems every multiplayer mission is one giant SAM threat zone. It’s rather silly. I’m not sure why mission designers feel the need to fill the game up with SAMs and turn PvP into PvE. 

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41 minutes ago, Drac said:

Wild Weasel the SA-10 with JSOWs.

They’ll just shoot down the JSOWs for sure. I’m thinking low pass with Mk-82 high drag or rockets. Also the SAMs will switch off their radar the instant I launch a HARM and they can get a lock on me before I can lock them. 

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46 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

They’ll just shoot down the JSOWs for sure. I’m thinking low pass with Mk-82 high drag or rockets. Also the SAMs will switch off their radar the instant I launch a HARM and they can get a lock on me before I can lock them. 

Yeah I know.  That's why I "Wild Weasel" using them.  Load up on four of them and fire in succession.  SA-10 site expends a lot of missiles shooting them down.  I then go in and cause them to fire the rest on me (if any missiles left) until they are all out.  Then I can go in to complete my task.

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1 hour ago, Drac said:

Yeah I know.  That's why I "Wild Weasel" using them.  Load up on four of them and fire in succession.  SA-10 site expends a lot of missiles shooting them down.  I then go in and cause them to fire the rest on me (if any missiles left) until they are all out.  Then I can go in to complete my task.

Oh yeah. You could pack some HARMs too and if the SAM turns on the radar to target the JSOWs it eats those. Gotta give that a try 👍

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If it's just an SA-10 site, you can get right on top of it by creeping in below ~60ft (the lower the better) and then hitting the radars with rockets (although this is a bit-memey). SHORAD complicates things if present. Suffice it to say, taking down a theatre-level HIMAD system is an inherently difficult task, much like sinking a well armed warship. Expecting to take one down solo is probably not realistic, especially if it is supported by aircraft and SHORAD systems.


Edited by Boogieman
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1 hour ago, Boogieman said:

Expecting to take one down solo is probably not realistic

And yet that the multiplayer mission! There’s probably 8-10 players on the server and about 20 SAM sites. It’s a bit lopsided…

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yes

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Caveat that all the following applies to the GAME and any resemblance to real life is purely coincidental.

 

In this game, SA-10 alone -- no problem. Same with SA-11, SA-6, SA-3, and (when we get them), SA-5's. Because they have a minimum engagement zone that you can fit the Ever Given through (60 feet is the lowest, for the SA-10).

 

I've taken out SA-10's, solo, with: LMAVs, rockets, Mk-82's, Mk-82Y's, JDAMs, etc. etc. In fact, you don't even need the boom-boom stuff: your guns do the trick just as well (and can be easier to put the thing on the thing as well) As long as you hit the tracking radar, you can then waltz out any way you please. JDAMs are the easiest, of course: you don't even need to be pointing at them or even know where they are. But where's the fun in that? Most fun is the rockets and 82Y's.  

 

The attack profile is the same for all: come in at <60ft and pop up around 2-3 nm. No need for terrain masking. In fact, works best on flat ground -- forests, cities, low hills etc. that force you to fly >60feet for your approach put you in the SA-10's kill zone.

 

I have no idea how your server sets the SA-10 up, but if the SA-10 is defended by SHORAD/MERAD (= "layered defense"), then the story is different. 

  • AAA makes thing s a little spicy, especially on with 82Y's. But most of the time I seem to get by OK?
  • MANPADS/IR missiles definitely bring up the pucker factor. I have my counter-measures set to pop a flare every 1/2 second on my attack run and that and a couple of jinks/rolls seem to get me by.
  • SA-15 or SA-19? Fuggedaboutit. I mean, really. With a minimum altitude of 0, it doesn't matter if you are literally in the weeds or going Mach 1, jinking or janking. They'll take you out, probably twice, the moment you come within their range ... which will be long before they come within your range.

If you server's SA-10 sites are undefended, or defended only by AA/MANPADS, go forth and conquer!

 

Now, if they have some nasty SA-15's or -19's in the mix (which would, as far as I can tell, pretty much in line with doctrine), then the only approach is saturation.

 

Which means Lone Wolf Solo needs to rethink his life choices. 

 

For a saturation attack, you need to figure 1 x Harm per missile tube, then +1 HARM per radar. The point of all this is suppression and distraction. While you close in with your gifts to do the DEAD. Obviously, it takes multiple aircraft and coordination. If your server runs Skynet (and I hiighly recommend that they do -- completely changes the dynamics/tactics), then this coordination needs to be in time as well as space, because the radars will shut down when they see the HARMs, and they will neither deplete the launchers nor hit the radars. So your attack run has to be within a few minutes of the HARMs TOT, absolutely no earlier and not much later, to coincide with the time the radars are down.

 

The other approach is with TALDs. This one is fool-proof, and needs way less coordination. And you can easily set up the AI to do it. The AI SAM's just cannot control themselves when they see a flight of these puppies, and let fly with everything they have. Right now, only the Tomcats carry TALDs, and they are usually the centerpiece of my approach in SP. A flight of 4 tomcats, launching 4 TALDs each, will deplete an entire SA-10 site defended by 2-3 SA-15's/19's in seconds: the moment they see the TALD's the AI dumps their load, with 2-3 missiles per TALD. In minutes they are done, and ready for a cigarette, cuddles, and just want to talk. Then you can come strutting in, pretty much at any height and speed you please to pick them off one-by-one, using whatever you please. This is why next to our GBU-24 actually doing the fancy low-level flying it's famous for, the Hornet TALD is the ordnance I'm looking forward to the most.

 


Edited by Bearfoot
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16 hours ago, Bearfoot said:

Caveat that all the following applies to the GAME and any resemblance to real life is purely coincidental.

 

In this game, SA-10 alone -- no problem. Same with SA-11, SA-6, SA-3, and (when we get them), SA-5's. Because they have a minimum engagement zone that you can fit the Ever Given through (60 feet is the lowest, for the SA-10).

 

I've taken out SA-10's, solo, with: LMAVs, rockets, Mk-82's, Mk-82Y's, JDAMs, etc. etc. In fact, you don't even need the boom-boom stuff: your guns do the trick just as well (and can be easier to put the thing on the thing as well) As long as you hit the tracking radar, you can then waltz out any way you please. JDAMs are the easiest, of course: you don't even need to be pointing at them or even know where they are. But where's the fun in that? Most fun is the rockets and 82Y's.  

 

The attack profile is the same for all: come in at <60ft and pop up around 2-3 nm. No need for terrain masking. In fact, works best on flat ground -- forests, cities, low hills etc. that force you to fly >60feet for your approach put you in the SA-10's kill zone.

 

I have no idea how your server sets the SA-10 up, but if the SA-10 is defended by SHORAD/MERAD (= "layered defense"), then the story is different. 

  • AAA makes thing s a little spicy, especially on with 82Y's. But most of the time I seem to get by OK?
  • MANPADS/IR missiles definitely bring up the pucker factor. I have my counter-measures set to pop a flare every 1/2 second on my attack run and that and a couple of jinks/rolls seem to get me by.
  • SA-15 or SA-19? Fuggedaboutit. I mean, really. With a minimum altitude of 0, it doesn't matter if you are literally in the weeds or going Mach 1, jinking or janking. They'll take you out, probably twice, the moment you come within their range ... which will be long before they come within your range.

If you server's SA-10 sites are undefended, or defended only by AA/MANPADS, go forth and conquer!

 

Now, if they have some nasty SA-15's or -19's in the mix (which would, as far as I can tell, pretty much in line with doctrine), then the only approach is saturation.

 

Which means Lone Wolf Solo needs to rethink his life choices. 

 

For a saturation attack, you need to figure 1 x Harm per missile tube, then +1 HARM per radar. The point of all this is suppression and distraction. While you close in with your gifts to do the DEAD. Obviously, it takes multiple aircraft and coordination. If your server runs Skynet (and I hiighly recommend that they do -- completely changes the dynamics/tactics), then this coordination needs to be in time as well as space, because the radars will shut down when they see the HARMs, and they will neither deplete the launchers nor hit the radars. So your attack run has to be within a few minutes of the HARMs TOT, absolutely no earlier and not much later, to coincide with the time the radars are down.

 

The other approach is with TALDs. This one is fool-proof, and needs way less coordination. And you can easily set up the AI to do it. The AI SAM's just cannot control themselves when they see a flight of these puppies, and let fly with everything they have. Right now, only the Tomcats carry TALDs, and they are usually the centerpiece of my approach in SP. A flight of 4 tomcats, launching 4 TALDs each, will deplete an entire SA-10 site defended by 2-3 SA-15's/19's in seconds: the moment they see the TALD's the AI dumps their load, with 2-3 missiles per TALD. In minutes they are done, and ready for a cigarette, cuddles, and just want to talk. Then you can come strutting in, pretty much at any height and speed you please to pick them off one-by-one, using whatever you please. This is why next to our GBU-24 actually doing the fancy low-level flying it's famous for, the Hornet TALD is the ordnance I'm looking forward to the most.

 

 

Too bad the GEN-X decoys appear to be off the table currently, because yes they would make engaging SA-10's a much more realistic proposition.

 

Currently my approach if going solo against an SA-10 with SA-15's or SA-19's involves a lot of prayer and low-level flying with firing off my HARMS just before I get within the engagement radius of the close in defences and hoping one slips through to take out the radar.

 

I set myself up a little scenario to practice this on and got reasonably good at it, but it was far from a sure fire thing. This shouldn't shock anyone that an SA-10 properly setup is a tough nut to crack, it is doing exactly what it is designed to do. One of the weaknesses of the current DCS arrangement (in the absence of Skynet of course) is that the radars will stay on the whole time rather than switching off when under attack by a HARM. To be honest the F-16 with the HTS and WCMD's and a HARM is probably going to have an easier time with an SA-10 site than a Hornet is (once it gets the HTS of course).

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