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Hind trimmer still not working properly?


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So is the bug you have to release controls to neutral after trimset or you do not have control? Whats buggy. I dont not have any problems with trimset and pov trim.

 

I like it better than the MI-8 because you can fine tune with pov in the hind


Edited by Denwagg
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Another problem with the trim is, that it moves the stick without physical stick input.

 

Can try it on the ground: center trim, center physical joystick, hit T (default trim shortcut), release T -> stick moves to the back and right. Autopilot channels on/off does not change that behavior. Is this reported in the linked thread or reported in general? Huge pita for me right now and i hope this gets fixed asap.

Hardware: MSI B450 Gaming Plus MAX | Ryzen 5 3600X (6*3.8 Ghz) | 32 GB RAM | MSI Radeon RX5700 | Samsung SSD 860 QVO 1TB | DCS dedicated @ WD Blue 500 GB SSD | Win 10 (64-bit) | TM Warthog HOTAS, MFD and rudder pedals, TrackIR5

 

Wishlist:  Northern Germany/Baltic Sea theater | Full Fidelity Su-25A | Asset packs (80s Iran, Lebanon 1982, Syria 2011+ factions) | Persistent KB shortcuts | Proper coalitions system |

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Added a track. Can someone confirm the stick jumps on trim release without physical stick movement? Already tried giving it a deadzone of 10 and also re-calibrated my stick (thought it might have been off to the right). Did not help. Also this only happens if the physical stick is in neutral position. If you move it and hit trim, the stick stays in place. If this bug is not know so far, i can put up a separate bug thread for it. Drives me crazy 😄

 


Edited by Desert Fox

Hardware: MSI B450 Gaming Plus MAX | Ryzen 5 3600X (6*3.8 Ghz) | 32 GB RAM | MSI Radeon RX5700 | Samsung SSD 860 QVO 1TB | DCS dedicated @ WD Blue 500 GB SSD | Win 10 (64-bit) | TM Warthog HOTAS, MFD and rudder pedals, TrackIR5

 

Wishlist:  Northern Germany/Baltic Sea theater | Full Fidelity Su-25A | Asset packs (80s Iran, Lebanon 1982, Syria 2011+ factions) | Persistent KB shortcuts | Proper coalitions system |

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1 hour ago, Desert Fox said:

Another problem with the trim is, that it moves the stick without physical stick input.

 

Can try it on the ground: center trim, center physical joystick, hit T (default trim shortcut), release T -> stick moves to the back and right. Autopilot channels on/off does not change that behavior. Is this reported in the linked thread or reported in general? Huge pita for me right now and i hope this gets fixed asap.

Check your joystick calibration. 

If pressing trim moves the virtual joystick then this is a real world joystick centring problem and recalibration is required to fix it. 

If you have a warthog you can see if it sits dead centre in both axis in the analyser. (windows calibration will not show it).

 

My warthog did the same, recalibration fixed it to perfection.

 

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HP pro Reverb.

Current settings:

Windows VR setting: IPD is 64.5mm, High image quality, 90Hz refresh rate.

Steam: VR SS set to 100%, motionReprojectionMode set to "motionreproduction" and Locked in at 45 Hz display,

DCS: Pixel Density 1.0, Forced IPD at 55 (perceived world size), 2 X MSAA, 0 X SSAA.

My real IPD is 64.5mm. Prescription VROptition lenses installed.

VR Driver system:

I9-9900KS 5Ghz CPU. XI Hero motherboard and 2080ti graphics card, 32 gigs Ram 3

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[/code][/code][/code][/code]200 Hz. No OC at the mo.

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It doesn't sound like a joystick problem. I couldn't use the trim on the Mi 24 either. But on the Mi 8, the trim works absolutely fine. Also I don't see a problem with my joystick (VKB Gunfighter)


Edited by Red_Pilot
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18 hours ago, Denwagg said:

So is the bug you have to release controls to neutral after trimset or you do not have control? Whats buggy. I dont not have any problems with trimset and pov trim.

 

Nope still the same old bug we talked about a month ago where you said that you don't even use the trimmer except for takeoff and thus don't experience the bug, but it is still there.

 

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14 hours ago, Red_Pilot said:

It doesn't sound like a joystick problem. I couldn't use the trim on the Mi 24 either. But on the Mi 8, the trim works absolutely fine. Also I don't see a problem with my joystick (VKB Gunfighter)

 

yes I had the same, good on the MI-8 or at least I did not notice it, but on the Hind the virtual stick kept moving precisely right with each trim press.

Looking at the TM device analyser after I had loaded my choppers software to the warthog, I could see the physical position on my X axis was leaning right by around 600 points (total right throw is 5000?.... I think), this was with the physical joystick centred. 

A re-calibration with Thrustmasters recalibration tool fixed it completely.... It is possible the MI-8 has a dead zone set as standard and the Hind does not.

 

I would guess a simple test is to quickly add a dead zone to the hinds pitch/roll axis in DCS and see if this removes the joystick movement when the trim is pressed... but I never tried this.


Edited by Rogue Trooper
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HP pro Reverb.

Current settings:

Windows VR setting: IPD is 64.5mm, High image quality, 90Hz refresh rate.

Steam: VR SS set to 100%, motionReprojectionMode set to "motionreproduction" and Locked in at 45 Hz display,

DCS: Pixel Density 1.0, Forced IPD at 55 (perceived world size), 2 X MSAA, 0 X SSAA.

My real IPD is 64.5mm. Prescription VROptition lenses installed.

VR Driver system:

I9-9900KS 5Ghz CPU. XI Hero motherboard and 2080ti graphics card, 32 gigs Ram 3

[code][code][code][code]

[/code][/code][/code][/code]200 Hz. No OC at the mo.

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Does this also happen if you just leave the stick, and use a button on another stick or just the keyboard?
I use FFB so I don't really notice it, but I think it's happening for me as well.

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

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4 hours ago, Blackeye said:

 

Nope still the same old bug we talked about a month ago where you said that you don't even use the trimmer except for takeoff and thus don't experience the bug, but it is still there. 

Sorry I did not understand the problem then either. Still fly the same way. Set trim for takeoff (down and to the right) for running or vertical takeoff. At about 100 kph reset trim then hold and trim for straight and level at about 9 degrees pitch. For transit I then use small Rudder and cyclic inputs no. Changes to trim

 


Edited by Denwagg
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1 hour ago, Denwagg said:

Sorry I did not understand the problem then either. Still fly the same way. Set trim for takeoff (down and to the right) for running or vertical takeoff. At about 100 kph reset trim then hold and trim for straight and level at about 9 degrees pitch. For transit I then use small Rudder and cyclic inputs no. Changes to trim

 

Well since you don't actually use the trim button it's no wonder you don't experience (or understand) the problem/bug associated with it. Sure you can work around it by using the POV trim instead in the style you seem to prefer or not use trim at all, but it should be fixed regardless. If you wanted to understand it you'd have to try trimming in the way that causes the problem to manifest itself.

Personally I just find it a bit irritating that you're selling this as "I have no problem" which makes it sound like the problem does not exist on your end and only further discussion reveals that you're not actually doing the thing affected by the bug so it's more like "you can work around the bug by adopting this style of trimming".


Edited by Blackeye
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Sorry Yeah there are several things I concur are not right with trim

One is say you are nose down you pull back on the stick and at level flight you hit trim set you jump way nose up. I attributed that to the idea you are applying an acceleration to the stick input. If you hit trimset at the same point and in a split second let go of the stick it will apply the correct trim.

The other is if you are holding a trim position and hit trimset your stick will not respond until you return to neutral. I've have crashed several times on that one

I don't know how it should work. But I do know my warthog will not work like real one because If you hit trimset in real one your stick stays in that position.

Again sorry for saying there's nothing wrong with the trimmer

I just found something that worked for me and perhaps conveyed it with the wrong attitude  . I just wanted to help


Edited by Denwagg
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The nose rising hard may be due to the large winglets pointing up and creating massive lift as you try to slow down by pointing your nose up.

These are the largest, sculpted for lift, wings on any chopper in the world and they create huge amounts of lift when fast forward speed is achieved.

I find it better to use this lift in a slowing turn..... use the lift to push towards the centre of the turn, this way height gain is controllable whilst resistance to speed is increased.... off course this is for a fast deceleration landings.

 

Large live changes in the joystick and then trimming is not good, it is not good in the MI-8 either. It is better to do lots of small movements trimming as you go (or even bleep trim). 

 

Just use the default trim setting in the menu, trim after small adjustments so that you can get the joystick to centre quicker (you have 0.5 or 0.8 second to re-centre your stick and after that you stick is live). 

I recommend you do not use the "return to centre" trim option in the menu.... in a fast changing low level flight, it might just be that banking right at the moment you HAVE to re-centre your joystick just caused you to die......never allow your stick to go dead indefinitely until you centre your joystick... it is just death.

 

Do not use rudder trim...... it requires thought and due diligence to check the relationship between virtual pedals and the real pedal position... it takes your mind off flying... it is just death.

 

The current trimmer fix is very nice and smooth I think.

 

 


Edited by Rogue Trooper

HP pro Reverb.

Current settings:

Windows VR setting: IPD is 64.5mm, High image quality, 90Hz refresh rate.

Steam: VR SS set to 100%, motionReprojectionMode set to "motionreproduction" and Locked in at 45 Hz display,

DCS: Pixel Density 1.0, Forced IPD at 55 (perceived world size), 2 X MSAA, 0 X SSAA.

My real IPD is 64.5mm. Prescription VROptition lenses installed.

VR Driver system:

I9-9900KS 5Ghz CPU. XI Hero motherboard and 2080ti graphics card, 32 gigs Ram 3

[code][code][code][code]

[/code][/code][/code][/code]200 Hz. No OC at the mo.

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6 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

Does this also happen if you just leave the stick, and use a button on another stick or just the keyboard?
I use FFB so I don't really notice it, but I think it's happening for me as well.

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk
 

I guess it is possible, I would imagine current FFB sticks do not have great tolerances and do not hold position perfectly. but I would not think FFB sticks are as problematic as a centring stick..... must be nice to have FFB on choppers, what make do you have?

 

  • Like 1

HP pro Reverb.

Current settings:

Windows VR setting: IPD is 64.5mm, High image quality, 90Hz refresh rate.

Steam: VR SS set to 100%, motionReprojectionMode set to "motionreproduction" and Locked in at 45 Hz display,

DCS: Pixel Density 1.0, Forced IPD at 55 (perceived world size), 2 X MSAA, 0 X SSAA.

My real IPD is 64.5mm. Prescription VROptition lenses installed.

VR Driver system:

I9-9900KS 5Ghz CPU. XI Hero motherboard and 2080ti graphics card, 32 gigs Ram 3

[code][code][code][code]

[/code][/code][/code][/code]200 Hz. No OC at the mo.

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I'm with Rogue Trooper, I use Default Trimmer Mode without Rudder Trimmer in both the Mi-24 and Ka-50. Central Position Trimmer Mode used to get me killed in the Ka-50 when I used it. I gave it a try in the Mi-24 and went back to Default soon after.

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On 8/29/2021 at 5:16 PM, Rogue Trooper said:

Check your joystick calibration. 

If pressing trim moves the virtual joystick then this is a real world joystick centring problem and recalibration is required to fix it. 

If you have a warthog you can see if it sits dead centre in both axis in the analyser. (windows calibration will not show it).

 

My warthog did the same, recalibration fixed it to perfection.

 

 

Using the TM calibration tool indeed fixed this for me. Cheer for pointing me there. Been calibrating with Windows a few times before but it did not change anything.

Still pretty strange this only happens in the Hind. All other modules (including Mi-8) i never had any problems and i never use dead zones for my axis.

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Hardware: MSI B450 Gaming Plus MAX | Ryzen 5 3600X (6*3.8 Ghz) | 32 GB RAM | MSI Radeon RX5700 | Samsung SSD 860 QVO 1TB | DCS dedicated @ WD Blue 500 GB SSD | Win 10 (64-bit) | TM Warthog HOTAS, MFD and rudder pedals, TrackIR5

 

Wishlist:  Northern Germany/Baltic Sea theater | Full Fidelity Su-25A | Asset packs (80s Iran, Lebanon 1982, Syria 2011+ factions) | Persistent KB shortcuts | Proper coalitions system |

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I've tried the POV trim and it don't seem to work, but if I use the trim button and then release center, that one works like the Black Shark version.

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I guess it is possible, I would imagine current FFB sticks do not have great tolerances and do not hold position perfectly. but I would not think FFB sticks are as problematic as a centring stick..... must be nice to have FFB on choppers, what make do you have?
 
Yeah, it's pretty excellent actually.
I have 3-4 MS FFB2s. They all behave in the exact same way. I've seen some Logitech G920/40(?) for sale here, so I might pick up one for comparison, but my plan is to "mate" two and two of the FFB2s, do the resistor mod and and make a TM ready swappable grip connection.

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

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