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Is ED letting down their VR customers?? Yes I'm venting!


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4 hours ago, C3PO said:

But what’s the resolution it is running at? Also, chasing FPS in VR I have found to be pointless as therr is no comparison with pancake mode. Fewer FPS don’t seem to matter as much as it does not feel as jerky visually or unsmooth. For 95% of the time, I have a completely fluid experience. Only exception is taking off from Beirut in early morning / evening when the ground clutter causes it to be stuttery visually - but that passes at > 1,500feet.

 

Yup.  Chasing the FPS dragon is a pointless endeavor that just sets you up to be disappointed.  Its easy to write it off based on the FPS counter without ever having looked out the window.  Its also easy to think that the tweaking you're spending hours doing is having an appreciable effect, when the counters show an improvement of a few FPS, even though your eyes can't really see it.  If I can fly at rooftop level, looking at the buildings to the sides as I pass them at 300 knots and only see an occasional smear or ghosting of the image, I'm good.  Its being in an urban area with both video feeds being displayed on the MFCDs in the A-10C that slows things down, so I just keep those MFCDs on non-video-feed pages until I get out of the city.  I have Motion Reprojection forced on for my G2 (which I'm running at 150% SS, 0.7 DCS PD, and 4X MSAA), so 45 FPS (on the counter, which can't read the interpolated frames produced by reprojection), in general, looks just fine.  This is all on an 8th Generation i7.  There is still lots of room for improvement, of course, but I wouldn't call it terrible.  The eye candy I have sacrificed, I found that I really never spent much time marveling at that stuff anyway.  We just have to deal with reality as it is at the moment and not how we would like it to be. 

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Glad I still just run a rift s, set it and forget it.  Love the Vr experience with it.  I’ll go test wmr with a odyssey  + and can’t run half the settings I can on a rift s.  Everyone went out and bought a G2 for dcs, well not a good move despite what people say about how amazing the clarity is.  The performance isn’t here yet for those high res and high settings in dcs.  So I’ll stay here happy with my Rift s until hardware and software leap frogs.

 

folks need to be realistic with expectations.

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52 minutes ago, Enduro14 said:

Glad I still just run a rift s, set it and forget it.  Love the Vr experience with it.  I’ll go test wmr with a odyssey  + and can’t run half the settings I can on a rift s.  Everyone went out and bought a G2 for dcs, well not a good move despite what people say about how amazing the clarity is.  The performance isn’t here yet for those high res and high settings in dcs.  So I’ll stay here happy with my Rift s until hardware and software leap frogs.

 

folks need to be realistic with expectations.

 

Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Rift S is still a good headset.

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1 hour ago, Enduro14 said:

Glad I still just run a rift s, set it and forget it.  Love the Vr experience with it.  I’ll go test wmr with a odyssey  + and can’t run half the settings I can on a rift s.  Everyone went out and bought a G2 for dcs, well not a good move despite what people say about how amazing the clarity is.  The performance isn’t here yet for those high res and high settings in dcs.  So I’ll stay here happy with my Rift s until hardware and software leap frogs.

 

folks need to be realistic with expectations.

I think for most Oculus users, the biggest bridge to cross is the software after all nightmares we read about SteamVR and WMR

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1 hour ago, Ala12Rv-Tundra said:

I think for most Oculus users, the biggest bridge to cross is the software after all nightmares we read about SteamVR and WMR

 

I just wanted to emphasis this.  Coming from Rift S, the Reverb G2 gives an incredible bump in sound and picture quality.  But WMR is a whole new world of pain that makes you realize just how solid Oculus software really is.

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3 hours ago, Enduro14 said:

Everyone went out and bought a G2 for dcs, well not a good move despite what people say about how amazing the clarity is.  The performance isn’t here yet for those high res and high settings in dcs.  So I’ll stay here happy with my Rift s until hardware and software leap frogs.

 

Not true.  I actually got better performance on my G1 and now my G2 than I ever had with my Rift CV1.  The reason for that is the headsets with higher native resolution don't require all the extra processing overhead taken by supersampling and/or higher DCS PD.  On top of the performance boost, it looks better than my old Rift ever could have.

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5 hours ago, eaglecash867 said:

Not true.  I actually got better performance on my G1 and now my G2 than I ever had with my Rift CV1.  The reason for that is the headsets with higher native resolution don't require all the extra processing overhead taken by supersampling and/or higher DCS PD.  On top of the performance boost, it looks better than my old Rift ever could have.

+1 here!

 

Just need to take all the optimization tips with lots of salt and test each one of the tricks in isolation rebooting the PC inbetween. Some advice, like disable full screen optimization for DCS.exe worsened my stutters. And try fresh install Windows 11. It really helped my aging rig to keep going.


Edited by impalor

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21 hours ago, The_Nephilim said:

Wonder why sounds like a bad config or something?

 

 

 

Ah, the old "something is wrong with your PC" chestnut. This leads to so many people wasting days on "tweaking" their systems when nothing is wrong with them. I personally have worked in the PC building and overclocking industry for about two decades, and my existing PC is in the top 0.1% of all VR systems on the planet, according to a variety of online-validated benchmarks. It's actually not that hard to build and maintain a PC these days - the issue isn't that people have screwed up systems, it's that the experience of VR is extremely subjective. What looks perfect to one simmer may look terrible to another. 

 

17 hours ago, C3PO said:

Also, chasing FPS in VR I have found to be pointless as therr is no comparison with pancake mode. Fewer FPS don’t seem to matter as much as it does not feel as jerky visually or unsmooth. For 95% of the time, I have a completely fluid experience. 

 

 

FPS numbers do matter - because it's the only objective way of measuring the experience. Again, for some people 45fps or lower feels like "a completely fluid" experience. For me it feels like a stuttering mess.

 

I'm not saying your opinion doesn't matter, and that you're wrong to enjoy VR. I'm just saying that folks need to be aware that the VR experience is extremely personal, and to be wary of spending money or time chasing an experience that they may never find. 

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Have you tried opening up Task Manager while VR and DCS is running and see what maybe turning on when its not suppose to be...like maybe Auto updates/services of a program or 2. 

Also maybe it could be your internet connection bogging out somehow, maybe hard reboot if your on a router and possibly do a internet connection test. I'm not a pro at all this but its worth trying. Something may be interfering when playing in VR. My internet connection is in New Orleans, LA from Floirda and with the hurricane last weekend there in N O ... is was terrible the whole weekend, Yesterday was smooth Flying. I think people are missing that the internet connection quality play a big part too. For example last weekend I was getting like 450-520 Mbps Download  and upload was terrible too. Yesterday I was getting 935ish Mbps Download and 23ish upload. 


Edited by Burt

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17 hours ago, GunSlingerAUS said:

 

Ah, the old "something is wrong with your PC" chestnut. This leads to so many people wasting days on "tweaking" their systems when nothing is wrong with them. I personally have worked in the PC building and overclocking industry for about two decades, and my existing PC is in the top 0.1% of all VR systems on the planet, according to a variety of online-validated benchmarks. It's actually not that hard to build and maintain a PC these days - the issue isn't that people have screwed up systems, it's that the experience of VR is extremely subjective. What looks perfect to one simmer may look terrible to another. 

 

 

FPS numbers do matter - because it's the only objective way of measuring the experience. Again, for some people 45fps or lower feels like "a completely fluid" experience. For me it feels like a stuttering mess.

 

I'm not saying your opinion doesn't matter, and that you're wrong to enjoy VR. I'm just saying that folks need to be aware that the VR experience is extremely personal, and to be wary of spending money or time chasing an experience that they may never find. 

I did not mean there was someting wrong with your PC just that your config could be wrong meaning your settings in Steam VR and DCS Perhaps. but if you are not happy with your 3090 you could send it too me and I would enjoy it for years to come haha!!

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Knock on wood but my game has been running pretty nice since 2.7 and I'm really enjoying it.   Well I had taken a break from about May, but when I returned to the game last month I was relatively happy with the performance and the new clouds, so I didn't play some of the earlier 2.7.x iterations.  Granted I only play fairly simple missions and not online multiplayer really right now also.  But I had much worse performance in the past on and off through updates.

 

I would say I'm cautiously optimistic for Vulkan though I'm keeping my expectations moderate.  My dream scenario would be that it works really well and they actually implement SLI VR but I probably jinxed it even saying that.


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49 minutes ago, The_Nephilim said:

I did not mean there was someting wrong with your PC just that your config could be wrong meaning your settings in Steam VR and DCS Perhaps. 

Yup.  It only takes a few minutes to play around with the DCS and SteamVR settings to figure out what has an effect on performance and what doesn't.  I haven't had to make any other changes on my rig to get it performing well in DCS.  Just have to shut the bloody FPS counter off to avoid the reverse placebo effect of going into it determined that you're not going to have a good time unless the counter hits some magical number you have in mind.  That also saves you from hours of messing with other settings to gain a few FPS on the counter that your eyes will never notice.  Sure DCS lags behind newer VR titles for performance and graphics, but that's the reality of the situation.  I just deal with reality and leave the dragon chasing to somebody else.  😎

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I bought my G2 last week (first VR experience) paired with I9 9900K @5ghz + RTX 3080TI + 32GB RAM + NVME, and was very disappointed with the experience in DCS, bad graphics and FPS, speed-of-heat guide saved me. Shader MOD for VR, Universal VR shader, and FSR mod make DCS VR possible. I am very dissapointed with ED VR implementation, 2021 and we still need modders to do ED's job. Ed should contact these modders to work with the team to make DCS out of the box VR experience less frustrating. 


Edited by Calinho
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Lol! E D can’t make everybody happy. 
It is what it is and ain’t what it ain’t .

my shit is running like a champ. I’m done here. 

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On 8/30/2021 at 10:46 AM, Nick_17 said:

 

I had the same experience a few weeks ago when my Reverb G2 arrived and while i had pretty good performance with the Rift S on almost max ingame settings (MSAA x2) i had a lot of stutters and a high fps impact when i changed to the G2. First i though it was just because of the much higher Resolution of the G2 and i was prepared to lower some settings, but even with lowest ingame settings, things did not change. I still had some stutters and quite low fps. The only thing that really helped was lowering the SteamVR Resolution to about 50%.

 

A few days later I experimented a bit and changed the ingame settings back to my Rift S standard and set the SteamVR Resolution as low as the native Rift S Resolution. I thought the performance should the be about the same as before, maybe just a bit lower. But it was unplayble and i thought there must be something wrong. I checked a few forums about the Reverb G2 if there is a way to achieve better performance and stumbled upon a website that suggested a few things i haven't tried before (Edit: Website = https://vr4dcs.com/2020/12/24/how-to-nail-reverb-setup/ . One of which was disabling "ghost monitors". I checked my windows display settings and saw that there were 4 new displays above my real monitors. I disabled them and restarted my PC. (I think i also disabled the windows game mode which was suggested there as well).

 

After the restart I launched DCS again and saw a huge performance boost. Since that day I play with 100% Steam VR Resolution and high ingame settings (almost max, just MSAA x2 and Visib Range = high) with about 40 fps and no stutters. No clue what those ghost monitors are and why they pop up when connecting my G2, but they reduced my performance by a LOT.

Some suggested this to a few friends with a G2 but some of them didn't see any change, might be worth a try tho.

 

 

Hi Nick, I think Im having the same problems. How do I remove the extra 4 ghost monitors?

Specs: Win10, i9-9900KF@5Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM 3200XMP, 1 TB M2 NVMe SSD, KFA2 RTX3090, VR G2 Headset, Warthog Throttle+Saitek Pedals+MSFFB2  Joystick. 

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SOFTWARE: Microsoft Windows 11, VoiceAttack & VIACOM PRO, TacView

VR Stuff:   My Settings for 3090 and G2  My Settings for 1080ti  Shaders MOD for VR  My variant of Kegetys mod with clear water and also IC PASS for current beta & stable, Patch Status

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1 hour ago, speed-of-heat said:

 

Thanks. This could be why I'm getting serious performance issues. I will try this. 


Edited by Lurker

Specs: Win10, i9-9900KF@5Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM 3200XMP, 1 TB M2 NVMe SSD, KFA2 RTX3090, VR G2 Headset, Warthog Throttle+Saitek Pedals+MSFFB2  Joystick. 

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I seriously doubt that’s it, but it could be, it made almost no difference to me perf wise… as is said in my 3090 guide..

SYSTEM SPECS: Hardware Intel Corei7-9700K @ 5.1 GHz, 64Gb RAM, EVGA 3090 XC3, Dell S2716DG, Virpil T50CM3 Throttle, T-50CM2 Base & Constellation Alpha + MFG Crosswinds V2, HP Reverb G2 @ 2836 x 2768
SOFTWARE: Microsoft Windows 11, VoiceAttack & VIACOM PRO, TacView

VR Stuff:   My Settings for 3090 and G2  My Settings for 1080ti  Shaders MOD for VR  My variant of Kegetys mod with clear water and also IC PASS for current beta & stable, Patch Status

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Yeah, I don't think Im simply pushing too many pixels. There seems to be a problem with how reprojection is handled. My Rift S used to run smooth as butter. This is with 1.5 PD, MSAAx2 and Ultra Clouds, Medium shadows in Cockpit, Flat on Terrain.

 

Before it all went to hell with the strange unfocused/crosseye vision, I had the G2 running with Shadows Low, High Clouds, 1.0 PD, MSAA x2 and 80% SteamVR resolution. and it still hitched like hell. When I say hitched, not a single action, whether head movement, or plane movment could be performed without significant stutter and frame drops.

 

I will try and run the G2 at the Rift S resolution, but I guarantee that it will have the exact same problems. There is a software issue somewhere...

Specs: Win10, i9-9900KF@5Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM 3200XMP, 1 TB M2 NVMe SSD, KFA2 RTX3090, VR G2 Headset, Warthog Throttle+Saitek Pedals+MSFFB2  Joystick. 

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you arent still using PD 1.5 are you?

SYSTEM SPECS: Hardware Intel Corei7-9700K @ 5.1 GHz, 64Gb RAM, EVGA 3090 XC3, Dell S2716DG, Virpil T50CM3 Throttle, T-50CM2 Base & Constellation Alpha + MFG Crosswinds V2, HP Reverb G2 @ 2836 x 2768
SOFTWARE: Microsoft Windows 11, VoiceAttack & VIACOM PRO, TacView

VR Stuff:   My Settings for 3090 and G2  My Settings for 1080ti  Shaders MOD for VR  My variant of Kegetys mod with clear water and also IC PASS for current beta & stable, Patch Status

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5 hours ago, Lurker said:

 

Hi Nick, I think Im having the same problems. How do I remove the extra 4 ghost monitors?

 

I disabled them in the windows display settings:

image.png

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1 hour ago, speed-of-heat said:

you arent still using PD 1.5 are you?

 

Nope. 1.0 At least according to the in-game options screen. But I will try deleting all the config files and let the game create new ones just to be sure. 

Specs: Win10, i9-9900KF@5Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM 3200XMP, 1 TB M2 NVMe SSD, KFA2 RTX3090, VR G2 Headset, Warthog Throttle+Saitek Pedals+MSFFB2  Joystick. 

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i certainly found that gave me the best results

SYSTEM SPECS: Hardware Intel Corei7-9700K @ 5.1 GHz, 64Gb RAM, EVGA 3090 XC3, Dell S2716DG, Virpil T50CM3 Throttle, T-50CM2 Base & Constellation Alpha + MFG Crosswinds V2, HP Reverb G2 @ 2836 x 2768
SOFTWARE: Microsoft Windows 11, VoiceAttack & VIACOM PRO, TacView

VR Stuff:   My Settings for 3090 and G2  My Settings for 1080ti  Shaders MOD for VR  My variant of Kegetys mod with clear water and also IC PASS for current beta & stable, Patch Status

1569924735_WildcardsBadgerFAASig.jpg.dbb8c2a337e37c2bfb12855f86d70fd5.jpg

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2 minutes ago, speed-of-heat said:

i certainly found that gave me the best results

 

For the life of me I can't remember which files are safe to delete, is it safe to delete everything here? 

%USERPROFILE% \Saved Games\DCS\Config

Specs: Win10, i9-9900KF@5Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM 3200XMP, 1 TB M2 NVMe SSD, KFA2 RTX3090, VR G2 Headset, Warthog Throttle+Saitek Pedals+MSFFB2  Joystick. 

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I have been helping people with performance issues in VR and 2d for many years in DCS, fact is even on two machines that are the same in every way can perform differently. It is a minefield and the silicon lottery is real, chips can perform differently and still be in the +/- for their spec. 

 

VR performance is something we are always looking at, we are obviously working on Vulkan and multicore improvements but it will take time and can not be rushed, as soon as we have news to share we will share it, we are hopeful things will improve but lets not count our chickens until they have hatched. 

 

thanks

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