[ED's SIDE] Replay tracks no longer accurate

[Nealius]

Key phrase being "no longer." They used to work fine, as evidenced by these videos; most of which were recorded from replay tracks. I assume some of the tweaks to the FM since then have caused corrupted track files, as other modules (Viper, Hornet, Huey, Spitfire, Mustang) all still have reliable tracks in 2.7.

 

The point in desync occurs in two specific scenarios, that I've noticed so far:

-taxi over rough terrain (Marianas abandoned airfields)

-during turns (particularly in the landing pattern)

Edited August 26, 2021 by Nealius

[Kappa]

AFAIK tracks are not working fine since ever, sometimes they show things you humans wouldn't believe   

 

[Nealius]

50 minutes ago, Kappa said:

AFAIK tracks are not working fine since ever, sometimes they show things you humans wouldn't believe   

 

 

Per my initial post, I have many YouTube videos filmed from replay tracks that DID work. 

[Kappa]

I'm sure you are right, but, replays have often given me problems.

 

[Hornet81]

@Nealius

Replaying tracks it is been an issue for years in DCS. It is not related to a specific module.

Long tracks get corrupted very easy. If you want to replay SP tracks I would recommend you to record short clips. If you want to reproduce a MP track I would recommend you to use the track of a dedicated server since they are less susceptible to get corrupted. 
 

[Nealius]

55 minutes ago, Hornet81 said:

@Nealius

Replaying tracks it is been an issue for years in DCS. It is not related to a specific module.

Long tracks get corrupted very easy. If you want to replay SP tracks I would recommend you to record short clips. If you want to reproduce a MP track I would recommend you to use the track of a dedicated server since they are less susceptible to get corrupted. 
 

 

That's not correct, and is a long perpetuated myth due to lack of transparency on ED's part as to why tracks fail, or how the system works at all. Harrier tracks have, prior to 2.7, been accurate. Accuracy of replay tracks does not depend on mission length. I've had replay tracks in excess of 150 minutes work perfectly fine. Accuracy of replay tracks is module-dependent. As per my OP, I named a few of them. There are more that also work. There are some that also don't--Tomcat, for example. I have years of recorded video footage supporting this claim, yet the evidence is always met with "it never works" as if my evidence doesn't exist.

 

Evidence

 

In the above evidence, all external view videos recorded from multiplayer and not client due to currupted tracks are as follows:

F-14 (all)

T-45C (all)

A-4E (only from boat; shore uncorrupted)

F/A-18 (only from boat; shore uncorrupted)

Mi-24P (all)

F-5E (all)

AV-8B (post-2019)

 

All external view videos recorded from single-player uncorrupted tracks are as follows:

Everything not listed above.

 

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Nealius

[Hornet81]

@Nealius

Sorry but I do not agree at all. It is quite a random issue, specially if playing with the track speed.(x2,x3,x4)

Try to replay some of your uncorrupted long tracks more than twice and you will see that at some point they get corrupted.
There are plenty of videos tutorials on YouTube explaining how to use those tracks properly and minimize the chances to get corrupted. 
 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Hornet81

[Nealius]

I have verifiable evidence via my Youtube channel proving that it is not completely random, yet people believe that their personal experiences trump statistics. I don't get it. I have replayed 90+ minute tracks, start to finish, average three or four times to gather the different camera angles I need, using time acceleration x2, x3, sometimes in excess of x5, and the replay track will play back exactly the same the three or four times I played it.

 

But at this point no one listens because "Data? What's that?" so no point in my pressing it further.

[Ramsay]

On 8/26/2021 at 10:41 AM, Nealius said:

I assume some of the tweaks to the FM since then have caused corrupted track files, as other modules (Viper, Hornet, Huey, Spitfire, Mustang) all still have reliable tracks in 2.7.

 

Like you, I find many tracks play back correctly or where they don't have a reasonable explanation.

 

In the case of FM tweaks and version changes, obviously as the track records the player's input, older tracks aren't "corrupted", rather the aircraft doesn't behave as originally recorded.

 

For example, I have a older AV-8B track (2.7.4 from July) where I air spawned, went active pause, used the TPOD to TOO several trucks, unpaused to get closer (14 --> 5) and fired off several APKWS. 

 

The track plays near perfect, except in flying closer to the targets, the heading was now ~14° off (likely due to the AFC changes) and I'm shooting at open fields.

(For Info: The APKWS still hit their targets thanks to their wide FOV).

 

In the case of DCS 2.7.5.10869, the AV-8B's tracks sort of work and sort of don't i.e. repeating the APKWS mission and re-recording it.

 

On the TPOD only the first truck was point locked correctly, for the rest the TPOD was slightly right of where it actually was (so 9/10 APKWS missed).

 

 

The same was true for the landing at Kobuleti, it was replicated perfectly (faults and all), except for the final approach's alignment and touch down which was to the right of the runway centerline and ended up in the grass.

 

This was a ~13 minute track with approx. 8½ minutes of it spent in active pause.

 

16 hours ago, Hornet81 said:

Sorry but I do not agree at all. It is quite a random issue, specially if playing with the track speed.(x2,x3,x4)

 

I'm not sure that track desync over time is what is being reported, there are other reason why certain modules break tracks

 

• the F-14 simply does not record player interactions with Jester's GUI "Wheel" (AFAIK keyboard short cuts are recorded)

• the Gazelle has very little stick deflection (controls indictor very near zero) so tracks quickly desync or don't respect the players previous input

• the Huey assumes no ffb (tracks need ffb turned off to play correctly)

• MP tracks may call server scripts, so play perfectly until the server changes the mission or updates it.

 

These are not random issues and shouldn't be coloured as such.

 

I've watched a Mirage 2000C, 1 hour 40 min track, from the 4YA PvE Syria server (with ~32 players plus AI units) recorded in Open Beta 2.7.5.10869 that played correctly all the way through, so this certainly isn't effecting all modules.

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by Ramsay

[Nealius]

I haven't tried older replays, just replays flown, saved, and replayed in the current Open Beta. Doing simple ramp-start, takeoff, and pattern practice, these have been my observations:

 

1. Startup, taxi to active OK

2. Takeoff OK

3. Enter the pattern downwind OK

4. Base turn OK-ish

5. Final NOT ALIGNED WITH RUNWAY

 

I have precisely 20 Harrier videos that were filmed from long replay tracks, with time acceleration, replayed multiple times for various camera angles, from 2017~2018, and they never broke. However, at the time, the Harrier tracks would reliably break upon pressing the pickle button if equipped with GBUs. If not equipped with GBUs, the replays were solid. 

 

Now I can't even do a simple takeoff and landing without the track breaking.

 

1 hour ago, Ramsay said:

These are not random issues and shouldn't be coloured as such.

 

Exactly. I have 137 videos of various modules recorded from replay tracks that did not break over the span of 8 years. All of the broken replay tracks are with very specific modules and/or very specific situations. Furthermore, replay track reliability can be fixed. The 190 A-8, Viggen, Spitfire, and Yak-52 all had broken replay tracks early on in their release, but were later fixed somehow, and now work reliably. 

Edited August 27, 2021 by Nealius

[Kappa]

Ok but, theese problems seems not to be module related,  why don't you open a bug report in DCS World section?

[Nealius]

50 minutes ago, Kappa said:

Ok but, theese problems seems not to be module related,  why don't you open a bug report in DCS World section?

 

They are module-specific.....

 

I have attempted using replay tracks from 25 official modules and 2 mod modules. Replay issues have only affected 4 of them on a consistent basis. Another 4 have had off/on issues but are currently stable and replay fine.

Edited August 27, 2021 by Nealius

[AlphaJuliet]

The tracks are on ED's side, they are working on them, the issue doesn't seem to be module specific.

 

[Nealius]

On 9/16/2021 at 1:47 AM, AlphaJuliet said:

The tracks are on ED's side, they are working on them, the issue doesn't seem to be module specific.

 

On 8/27/2021 at 7:32 PM, Nealius said:

I have attempted using replay tracks from 25 official modules and 2 mod modules. Replay issues have only affected 4 of them on a consistent basis. Another 4 have had off/on issues but are currently stable and replay fine.

 

They are module specific. This is a verifiable fact and I'm rather tired of the whole of the DCS community sticking their collective heads in the sand over this....

[haze1]

On 9/15/2021 at 6:47 PM, AlphaJuliet said:

The tracks are on ED's side, they are working on them, the issue doesn't seem to be module specific.

 

No they aren't working on them. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it has been zero priority for years now, don't expect it to change. 

 

I received these responses from previous support tickets: 

 

Greetings,

I've informed our developers about this issue from you, but I guess they know that very well

As I know, it's not easy problem and requires more time to fix it. Not months.


You can discuss that "problem" on forums.eagle.ru

 

05/19/2019

 

 

 

We have problems with track recording regardless of the specific aircrafts.We know about this and working to solve this problem.
 

06/20/2018

 

 

It is a common problem of DCS World.
Please excuse us for inconvenience.
We know about this and working to solve it

 

03/29/2018

 

 

That means 3 and a half year wasn't enough them to fix it.

[AdrianL]

Track replays only capture inputs so are not reliable. It just depends on what was happening in the replay. 

I have issues with all modules. Some tracks are fine but others do not reflect the reality.

AI can behave differently, speeding up time can cause issues, changing views, etc can all cause issues.