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Think we'll get the Ataka or the R-60 first? - Pure speculation, not request for information.


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Just thought it might be a fun discussion. Anyone have any thoughts? Obviously they're going to be focusing on frantically dashing around and crushing bugs with lead boots before they add any of the bigger promised things like the KORD, new weapons, etc.

 

I'm gambling on the Ataka will be here first, unless they have an independent team working on making infrared missiles track ground targets. Ataka would just be comparatively easier to add in, given it's essentially just the same missile with higher performance specifications of range, penetration/damage, speed, etc.

R-60 on the other hand requires some kind of modification to the Hind itself from what I've read, and they are waiting on a whole new system of having infrared missiles tracking ground targets. 

 

Though I will say that I'm wishing for the R-60 a bit more, I've had so many times where planes go practically suicidal to engage helicopters for free kills, plenty even get within the arc of fire for the cannon just to take pot shots. 

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I'm hoping for the one with the most (usable) range so I can perhaps stand a chance against those pesky Gepard SPAAG's. Shturm just hasn't enough range to stay outside of the Gepard's killzone, and coming in low and fast with a rocket run mostly equals both a dead Gepard and dead Koekemoeroetoe...

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1 hour ago, HC_Official said:

depends when the apache come out, if it is before either of these are added , you are going to be waiting a long long time

Think we won't be getting either before the apache, though I think they'll keep a dedicated team to the Mi-24 atleast partially.

My thoughts still stand on we're going to get the R-60 last because they're working on a whole new system for it rather than changing some variables in existing code and reusing models.

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I'm guessing the Ataka, as it largely uses the same guidance system as the Shturm, and is broadly similar (though longer range and more penetration).

 

The R-60s ED are waiting on completing the IR system overhaul, though then again, hey said that about ATFLIR so who knows?

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48 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

I'm guessing the Ataka, as it largely uses the same guidance system as the Shturm, and is broadly similar (though longer range and more penetration).

That's why I don't understand why the Ataka is not yet modelled...
Wait and see....

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The Ataka will require a new model, it’s both longer and has a different launch tube. 
 

they also plan to model it in both HEAT and FAE versions. There are no FAE explosions in DCS, they could either make it a regular warhead or make something new. I’m sure that decision alone takes time. 
 

also in the LUA the autopilot and guidance variables are pretty complex, I bet it takes a while just to make a decision how different the Ataka variables and it’s autopilot/guidance will be, as well as getting info on things like any difference in battery time. 
 

 

but I’m sure we will still get that way before R-60, though it seems we might be able to carry 6 R-60s, that would make it an anti helicopter monster 

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4 hours ago, Razorback said:

That's why I don't understand why the Ataka is not yet modelled...

 

It was quite a surprise when I put some AI Mi-28s in a mission years ago and found out they were shooting Shturm, not Ataka.

 

I'd bet we get Ataka first and that's what I'd rather have over the R-60s. Lots of armor out there that just shrug off Shturm hits, especially for the typical DCS scenario.

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13 hours ago, Koekemoeroetoe said:

I'm hoping for the one with the most (usable) range so I can perhaps stand a chance against those pesky Gepard SPAAG's. Shturm just hasn't enough range to stay outside of the Gepard's killzone, and coming in low and fast with a rocket run mostly equals both a dead Gepard and dead Koekemoeroetoe...

 

I've found I can kill them pretty well - just that I fire as soon as I'm in range and I angle off slightly to make myself harder to range, and break off as soon as the missile reaches the target. It does fire at me... but it doesn't hit - at least most of the time. The Mi-24 isn't immune to the Gepard, and the Gepard is terrifying... but I can still probably take out four before losing an Mi-24... and in real combat that is the kind of exchange ratio which often exists.

 

Now the Tunguska on the other hand - I don't even try.

 

 

4 hours ago, NeedzWD40 said:

I'd bet we get Ataka first and that's what I'd rather have over the R-60s. Lots of armor out there that just shrug off Shturm hits, especially for the typical DCS scenario.

 

This is especially likely given that they've stated they want to include the R-60 as a fire-and-forget air to ground weapon - but that is dependent on giving ground vehicles heat signatures (and that is a total overhaul that needs to be finished first).


Edited by Avimimus
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7 hours ago, Avimimus said:

 

I've found I can kill them pretty well - just that I fire as soon as I'm in range and I angle off slightly to make myself harder to range, and break off as soon as the missile reaches the target. It does fire at me... but it doesn't hit - at least most of the time. The Mi-24 isn't immune to the Gepard, and the Gepard is terrifying... but I can still probably take out four before losing an Mi-24... and in real combat that is the kind of exchange ratio which often exists.

 

Now the Tunguska on the other hand - I don't even try.

 

Haha yeah Tunguska is on a whole different level indeed. But regarding Gepards, do you do that with a human gunner or Petrovich? I found I can get a >90% hit rate with Petrovich, as long as you shoot within range and keep the helo insanely stable. Going into a sideway movement, even the slightest, to avoid the Gepard's rounds almost always makes Petro miss the target. At least that's my experience with it so far.

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8 hours ago, Koekemoeroetoe said:

Haha yeah Tunguska is on a whole different level indeed. But regarding Gepards, do you do that with a human gunner or Petrovich? I found I can get a >90% hit rate with Petrovich, as long as you shoot within range and keep the helo insanely stable. Going into a sideway movement, even the slightest, to avoid the Gepard's rounds almost always makes Petro miss the target. At least that's my experience with it so far.

 

With Petrovitch and a ~60-80% hit rate:

 

I'm already lined up when I come into range so I can fire immediately. I then angle off with a very smooth turn to my new heading and altitude. It appears that Petrovitch's aim is thrown off by manoeuvres and that gets communicated to the missile (which can cause it to crash)... so I keep the turn as smooth and gentle as possible.

 

I then immediately trim out the helicopter and fly as straight and level as possible - ensuring there are no oscillations that could lower Petrovitch's accuracy.

 

The Gepard will get at least two bursts off, but if I've chosen the flight path while I'll be able to survive without evasive action until the missile hits - I then break away low as soon as it hits and use ground cover for protection as I slink back out of range.

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I'm mostly hoping that Petrovich gets on a 12step program to deal with his alcoholism. Dude can't guide a missile or spot worth a darn.

 

I mean I know copious consumption of Vodka is a near and dear to traditional aspects of DCS development and management but really, lets move into the 21st century. 

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On 8/24/2021 at 3:08 PM, HC_Official said:

depends when the apache come out, if it is before either of these are added , you are going to be waiting a long long time

 

Two separate teams for the Hind and the Apache. Shouldn't be any (or much) overlap. 


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R-60 first, because R-60 is way more useful in PvP multiplayer, and will be way more useful in PvP than some additional (and slightly better) AT missile.

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On 8/27/2021 at 1:53 PM, D4n said:

R-60 first, because R-60 is way more useful in PvP multiplayer, and will be way more useful in PvP than some additional (and slightly better) AT missile.

 

I somehow doubt that the majority of their market, especially their helicopter market, is multiplayer oriented. Usually ~40% of the active forum users for a flight sim are into multiplayer but only 5%-10% of the actual users of the product are.

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R60 only had a 2000 ft lock on range for adversary helis and small aircraft anyway and that was perfect weather for Central Europe.  Hence they ended up using the antitank missies against helis as they are more effective…..

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On 8/28/2021 at 8:03 PM, Avimimus said:

 

I somehow doubt that the majority of their market, especially their helicopter market, is multiplayer oriented. Usually ~40% of the active forum users for a flight sim are into multiplayer but only 5%-10% of the actual users of the product are.

Are there any concrete statistics on this?

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On 8/24/2021 at 5:02 PM, Northstar98 said:

I'm guessing the Ataka, as it largely uses the same guidance system as the Shturm, and is broadly similar (though longer range and more penetration).

 

The R-60s ED are waiting on completing the IR system overhaul, though then again, hey said that about ATFLIR so who knows?

 

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On 9/4/2021 at 5:42 AM, Enduro14 said:

R60 only had a 2000 ft lock on range for adversary helis and small aircraft anyway and that was perfect weather for Central Europe.  Hence they ended up using the antitank missies against helis as they are more effective…..

I would call the weather above Central Europe anything but perfect.

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