Jump to content

Radar look down problem - Low flying, fighter size targets not detected from high altitude


Gripes323
 Share

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Tholozor said:

Have you tried just using MED instead of INTL when they get closer?

 

It didn't make any difference from 42k ft.  It's weird.  I tried to paint the same targets from 35k ft., using mixed PRF and I picked them up at 35 nm. From 25k, the targets show up at 41 nm.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’ve noticed that I can’t pick up bandits down on the deck, over water, even high aspect, no matter the PRF. And it’s a good position for them because they can sure lock me up. 

  • Like 1

Velocity Micro PC | Asus Z97-A | i7-4790K 4.7GHz | Corsair Liquid CPU Cooler | 32GB DDR3-1600MHz Memory | EVGA RTX 2080 Ti XC | 240gb Intel 520 Series MLC SSD | 850 W Corsair PSU | Windows 10 Home | LG 32UD99-W UHD Monitor | Bose Companion 5 Speakers | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Put this in the bug section along with a track.  The radar doesn't care one bit what your altitude is as long as there's enough closure.  Range might be reduced but flying low doesn't confer stealth.


Edited by GGTharos
  • Like 1

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just flew a simple setup:  1 Su33 @1500 ft. hot  and  1 Tu160 @ 500 ft. hot,  separated by a few miles, line abreast.   I was between 42k and 43k.

I picked up Tu160 at 38nm, never picked up Su33.

At some point I 'conveniently' lost link with AWACS when E3 turned away from me... he was supposed to be in orbit @44k ft.  I wouldn't have made any difference as you can see in my vid in the op. I regained the link when the Su33 was at around 8nm on the nose... well, below the nose and I wasn't able to re-acquire.

I'm posting a track in the bugs section.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's another track, rather long from MP but you can see the attempt to lock the bandit at the end

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9x5ss8ev0hnlvza/BF Syria Modern 1.31.miz-dynamic-20210823-124316.zip?dl=0

Stable version 2.7.5.10869


Edited by SharpeXB

Velocity Micro PC | Asus Z97-A | i7-4790K 4.7GHz | Corsair Liquid CPU Cooler | 32GB DDR3-1600MHz Memory | EVGA RTX 2080 Ti XC | 240gb Intel 520 Series MLC SSD | 850 W Corsair PSU | Windows 10 Home | LG 32UD99-W UHD Monitor | Bose Companion 5 Speakers | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello both,

 

this is correct as is, When a pulse Doppler radar detects a target below its horizon, it should have a reduction in detection range due to look-down clutter.

 

Thank you

smallCATPILOT.PNG.04bbece1b27ff1b2c193b174ec410fc0.PNG

Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status

Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 32GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

RADAR is not a all seeing magic device, it has limitations. 

Keep the sarcasm to yourself, so at what slant range would you expect to detect a fighter sized object whilst looking down


Edited by jackdaw
  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bignewy, its different if we are talking about a reduction in range versus talking about inability to detect at all. Haven't tested myself so I can't confirm.

 

@Jackdraw no need to be rude, i don't think there was any sarcasm in the response.

 

 

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, jackdaw said:

Keep the sarcasm to yourself, so at what slant range would you expect to detect a fighter sized object whilst looking down

 

 

There was no sarcasm so please calm down. 

I will speak to the team about it. 

 

thanks

  • Like 1

smallCATPILOT.PNG.04bbece1b27ff1b2c193b174ec410fc0.PNG

Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status

Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 32GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my case the target was very close and still remained undetected. 

Velocity Micro PC | Asus Z97-A | i7-4790K 4.7GHz | Corsair Liquid CPU Cooler | 32GB DDR3-1600MHz Memory | EVGA RTX 2080 Ti XC | 240gb Intel 520 Series MLC SSD | 850 W Corsair PSU | Windows 10 Home | LG 32UD99-W UHD Monitor | Bose Companion 5 Speakers | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did some testing and found out that when look down angle is higher than 14-15 degrees radar won't see anything in RWS/TWS. That combined with look down detection range reduction scaling based on altitude difference or angle means that from 40k feet it won't detect low flying fighter sized target before the look down angle gets higher than that 14-15 degrees so you won't ever detect the contact in that scenario.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@BIGNEWYLook down detection should not be an issue for the APG-73, unless the target is flying in the weeds and mixed with the ground clutter. And even like that, it shouldn't be impossible to detect, just have a decreased detection range. The detection performance shouldn't decrease if we're talking about a target at 15,000 ft, while I'm at 25,000 ft. It's a Doppler radar, it should be able to pick up a contact like that, because the Doppler return from the target and the return from the ground are completely different.

 

Same should go for missile seekers, BTW.

 

If you want to confuse a radar like that, you need to be in the weeds and mixed with the ground clutter, not just be below them. Especially for missiles, consider
that they often come down at targets from above, due to lofting.


Edited by Harker
  • Like 5

The vCVW-17 is looking for Hornet and Tomcat pilots and RIOs. Join the vCVW-17 Discord.

1197644828_Screen_200911_044202-Copy.png.74d8c09ee9060cffd7408a75ab2c13ef.png

38" AW3821DW, Z370 Aorus Gaming 7, i7-8700K, 3090 FTW3 Ultra, 32GB DDR4, 960 Pro, 970 Evo Plus, WD Gold 6TB, Seasonic Prime Platinum
Super Taurus throttle + base, Combat and T/O panels, TM50 base, Hornet grip w/extension, 3 MFDs

F/A-18C, AV-8B, F-16C, JF-17, A-10C (C II), M-2000C, F-14, BS2, UH-1H, P-51D, Sptifire, FC3

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The target I was looking at was high aspect, not notching, over the water so not hidden by terrain, right on the deck and pretty close. Almost like the player knew it would be an exploit. 

Velocity Micro PC | Asus Z97-A | i7-4790K 4.7GHz | Corsair Liquid CPU Cooler | 32GB DDR3-1600MHz Memory | EVGA RTX 2080 Ti XC | 240gb Intel 520 Series MLC SSD | 850 W Corsair PSU | Windows 10 Home | LG 32UD99-W UHD Monitor | Bose Companion 5 Speakers | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ive spent time testing it today and it seems to be working as intended,  ( degrades range based on angle. It only reduces range by 0.035 for everyone 1 degree down )

 

I have tested with Tu160 and Mig-29 and have been able to find and lock targets. 

smallCATPILOT.PNG.04bbece1b27ff1b2c193b174ec410fc0.PNG

Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status

Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 32GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here are a few tracks of me headon with an AI F-18 at 500knots GS. Two in a lookdown and one in a lookup situation.

I the lookup there are of course no problems detecting the F-18, but in both lookdown situations the track is lost somewhere between 10-20 NM, and the headon F-18 is never detected in MPRF mode.

 

Lookup 10k-40k over water.trk Lookdown 40k-20k over water.trk Lookdown 40k-10k over water.trk


Edited by Svend_Dellepude
  • Like 4

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Win10 64, Asus Maximus VIII Formula, i5 6600K, Geforce 980 GTX Ti, 32 GB Ram, Samsung EVO SSD.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

Ive spent time testing it today and it seems to be working as intended,  ( degrades range based on angle. It only reduces range by 0.035 for everyone 1 degree down )

 

I have tested with Tu160 and Mig-29 and have been able to find and lock targets. 

Real problem here isn't look down range reduction. Real problem is that after certain look down angle (around 15 degrees) radar won't see or track anything in RWS or TWS even if you had solid track on the contact, after that angle radar will just loose the contact without reason. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the track is completely lost in look-down situation with reasonable closing velocity, this is a different issue, and I don't think this is 'correct as-is'

  • Like 4

AMD R7 5800X | 32GB DDR4-3600 | RTX 2070S | VKB MGC Pro Gunfighter Mk III + Saitek X52 Pro Throttle + VKB T-Rudder Mk4 | HP Reverb G2

FC3 | A-10C | Ка-50 | P-51 | UH-1 | Ми-8 | F-86F | МиГ-21 | FW-190 | МиГ-15 | Л-39 | Bf 109 | M-2000C | F-5 | Spitfire | AJS-37 | AV-8B | F/A-18C | Як-52 | F-14 | F-16 | Ми-24 | AH-64

NTTR | Normandy | Gulf | Syria | Supercarrier

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...